Cardinals Poznanski SI cover story this week: Albert Pujols is the best player in Baseball. - Page 5

Hootie · 03-12-2009, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smittysbar

And he has never been the same since.

If you're talking about Lidge...I'm going to go ahead and say he rebounded pretty nicely last year

**Reaper16** · 03-12-2009, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie

If you're talking about Lidge...I'm going to go ahead and say he rebounded pretty nicely last year

Its not like the Phillies won the World Series or anything.

Coach · 03-12-2009, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smittysbar

And he has never been the same since.

If you are referring to Albert, it's because of his elbow. He keeps delaying that surgery for the elbow, which I think affects his game.

Stinger · 03-12-2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

That shot he hit in the playoffs against lidge is probably the hardest hit ball I've ever seen hit,

The night after that Home Run happened both teams had to fly back to St. Louis for the next game I have posted this before but a great story:

Quote:

On the way back to St. Louis to play the game 6 Brad Ausmus Houston's Catcher that caught for Lidge when he gave up the home run had the pilot to announce after takeoff:

“We've reached our cruising altitude of 35,000 feet. I’ve turned off the fasten seatbelt sign and turned off the cabin lights. If you look to the left of the aircraft, in the next two or three minutes you might be able to catch a glimpse of Albert Pujols’ home run ball.”

CHENZ A! · 03-11-2009, 08:00 PM

Didn't the Royals win the season series against the Cards last year? Yep. Cards fans are not the brightest bunch.

Chief Henry · 03-12-2009, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHENZ A!

Didn't the Royals win the season series against the Cards last year? Yep. Cards fans are not the brightest bunch.

It really doesn't mean much in the big picture.

The Royals have been a AAA ball club at best for the last 20 seasons.

The fans that aren't the brightest bunch are the Royals fans for putting up with that POS of an organization for all this time.

**Reaper16** · 03-12-2009, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Henry

The fans that aren't the brightest bunch are the Royals fans for putting up with that POS of an organization for all this time.

Replace "Royals" with "Chiefs" and this sentence means the same thing.

StcChief · 03-12-2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHENZ A!

Didn't the Royals win the season series against the Cards last year? Yep. Cards fans are not the brightest bunch.

enjoy your yearly "Royals WS"

POND_OF_RED · 03-12-2009, 08:33 AM

Just 10 years ago Cardinals fans were toting McWire as the greatest in the game. Let's hope for another story book ending.

Al Bundy · 03-12-2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POND_OF_RED

Just 10 years ago Cardinals fans were toting McWire as the greatest in the game. Let's hope for another story book ending.

Yep... Pujols seems like a decent enough guy, but if he busted for doing roids or HGH I wouldn't be surprised at this point. The only player that would surprise me is Griffey JR.

**BigRedChief** · 03-12-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POND_OF_RED

Just 10 years ago Cardinals fans were toting McWire as the greatest in the game. Let's hope for another story book ending.

dude if you were paying attention you would know most cardinal fans on here didn't think he was a true Cardinal and just a sideshow. Now, Pujols is considered by most Cardinal fans the inheritor of the legacy of Dizzy Dean, Stan the Man, Gibson, Brock and Ozzie.

Frazod · 03-12-2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POND_OF_RED

Just 10 years ago Cardinals fans were toting McWire as the greatest in the game. Let's hope for another story book ending.

Yeah, and his juice buddy Sosa wasn't getting any press at all, was he?

Hypocrite much?

At least McGwire didn't used a corked bat.

DJ's left nut · 03-12-2009, 09:23 AM

Just so many things to say and no way to nicely sum up.

1) I'm guessing KCChiefs88 also finds Grantland Rice to be droll, Heinz to be prosaic and Woody Paige to be an icon. Joe Posnanski is an absolutely brilliant writer. Failing to recognize him as among the best, if not the absolute best, sportwriters in the country is a pretty damning indictment of the person suggesting he's anything other than elite. Rick Reilly is a vapid hack, Posnanski is everything a sportswriter oughta be.

2) TONS of sour grapes among the Royals fans. Albert just put up his best season at age 28, the age he is actually supposed to put up his best season. If he were 30/31, he'd be in his decline years. Instead he fought through a pretty painful elbow issue to author the finest season of his career, especially considering his supporting cast.

Will he age well? No, probably not. He has a pretty thick trunk and has had some nagging leg issues throughout his career. With as much power as he generates with his lower half, I think his raw power numbers will start to decline here in the next season or two. He'll continue to be a good doubles hitter and OBP machine, but somewhere near a 25 HR guy in the next 4 seasons. I'm thinking Todd Helton. Helton's power #s began a steep decline at age 28 after having his best season at 27. Funny that nobody's screaming steroids or accusing him of lying about his age. Hmmm.....

Albert's career arc has simply done what a historically great player's career arc should do. He had a great season in 2003, but it was clearly something of an outlier in his overal progression. Take away 2 HRS that season and his OPS+ is around 165, a slight tick over the previous 2 seasons and a notch below the next 3. He had an injury in 2007 that robbed him of a prime season but he still managed a great year. At age 28, he had his peak season. C'mon guys, that's exactly what he's SUPPOSED to do in his career arc. Nobody can argue that he's not one of the best hitters of the last 25 years. That level of ability comes with talent that simply sets him apart from other MLB players, so why is it so impossible to accept the fact that he's simply been a great player from the start?

3) I won't be a KU fan and claim that we don't care if STL wins the season series against KC. I absolutely hate it when we lose to you guys. However, I car far more about beating the Mets, Astros, Cubs, Brewers and Braves. I also care more about the results over 162 games...or 2 decades. Take your season series victory, I'll take my decade of sustained success, a couple of pennants and a WS title.

4) AL baseball sucks ass. The DH has done more to hurt the sport than 'roids, IMO. Baseball has always been about the chess pieces as much as the athleticism. The DH kills at least 1/2 the strategy and greatly damages part of what makes baseball great.

5) Manny covers the plate better than Albert. Manny's the best bad-ball hitter I've ever seen and likely the best I ever will. He doesn't have the focus Albert has, but Manny is a more talented hitter. Albert's better at keeping an inside fastball fair down the LF line, but Manny can take any ball within 8 inches of the zone in any direction and hit it hard. His lack of preparation will lead to him taking some akward swings and getting off balance(which Pujols never does), but I've seen him put a ball 425 feet while swinging off his front foot with one arm. Manny is possibly the most talented RH hitter of all time.

6) Lidge was the best reliever in baseball last season, I think he came back around nicely. He'll plummet to earth soon, however. The torque generated by his slider will eventually take its toll on his elbow. The Mets will learn this with K-Rod as well. If Lidge loses even a little bit of his slider, he's useless. He can't spot his fastball well enough to survive without an A+ slider.

7) Cardinals fans recognized McGwire for what he was. Most of us knew he was a steroid freak and a limited player. He had great power, a great batting eye and an underrated glove. Sure, there were the local fanboys and old women that came out to see him, but all fanbases have their bandwagon idiots. To say that the Cardinals fan in general held him out as 'the greatest ever' is another assinine strawman generated by folks just looking to knock down the next big thing.

**Reaper16** · 03-12-2009, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

2) TONS of sour grapes among the Royals fans.

6) Lidge was the best reliever in baseball last season

2.) Tons of sour grapes from Royals fans? There was exactly one Royals fan, Great Expectations, a poster I've never seen before this thread. There were other posters, some Royals fans some not, that expressed doubts over Pujols' true age. But that's not sour grapes, that's legit concern. Posnanski's article is partly about that very issue.

6) Joakim Soria, with his .68 WHIP, disagrees.

DJ's left nut · 03-12-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16

2.) Tons of sour grapes from Royals fans? There was exactly one Royals fan, Great Expectations, a poster I've never seen before this thread. There were other posters, some Royals fans some not, that expressed doubts over Pujols' true age. But that's not sour grapes, that's legit concern. Posnanski's article is partly about that very issue.

6) Joakim Soria, with his .68 WHIP, disagrees.

Soria didn't pitch in a playoff game or close out a game that really mattered all season. Oh, and Soria didn't go 41/41 on save opps.

Lidge, on the other hand, saved 7 in the playoffs alone and gave up 1 ER the whole time while striking out 13 and allowing only 8 baserunners. Did I mention he went an entire season without blowing a save? Nor did he ever take a loss. In a season when they made the playoffs by 3 games, that's huge.

When you did it matters as much as how you did it when you're talking about a closer. Soria had a great season, but he blew a few games and didn't ever face 'nut cutting' time. Had Soria been closing for Philly and blown the handful of games he did, they don't make the playoffs.

Lidge was better.

03-11-2009, 08:00 PM	#5
CHENZ A! pimping hoes + clocking a grip Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: KCMO Casino cash: $9977569	Didn't the Royals win the season series against the Cards last year? Yep. Cards fans are not the brightest bunch.
Posts: 6,302

03-12-2009, 08:33 AM	#9
POND_OF_RED The talking stonehead Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Blue Springs, MO Casino cash: $-1976854	Just 10 years ago Cardinals fans were toting McWire as the greatest in the game. Let's hope for another story book ending.
Posts: 6,019

03-12-2009, 09:23 AM	#13
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-920901	Just so many things to say and no way to nicely sum up. 1) I'm guessing KCChiefs88 also finds Grantland Rice to be droll, Heinz to be prosaic and Woody Paige to be an icon. Joe Posnanski is an absolutely brilliant writer. Failing to recognize him as among the best, if not the absolute best, sportwriters in the country is a pretty damning indictment of the person suggesting he's anything other than elite. Rick Reilly is a vapid hack, Posnanski is everything a sportswriter oughta be. 2) TONS of sour grapes among the Royals fans. Albert just put up his best season at age 28, the age he is actually supposed to put up his best season. If he were 30/31, he'd be in his decline years. Instead he fought through a pretty painful elbow issue to author the finest season of his career, especially considering his supporting cast. Will he age well? No, probably not. He has a pretty thick trunk and has had some nagging leg issues throughout his career. With as much power as he generates with his lower half, I think his raw power numbers will start to decline here in the next season or two. He'll continue to be a good doubles hitter and OBP machine, but somewhere near a 25 HR guy in the next 4 seasons. I'm thinking Todd Helton. Helton's power #s began a steep decline at age 28 after having his best season at 27. Funny that nobody's screaming steroids or accusing him of lying about his age. Hmmm..... Albert's career arc has simply done what a historically great player's career arc should do. He had a great season in 2003, but it was clearly something of an outlier in his overal progression. Take away 2 HRS that season and his OPS+ is around 165, a slight tick over the previous 2 seasons and a notch below the next 3. He had an injury in 2007 that robbed him of a prime season but he still managed a great year. At age 28, he had his peak season. C'mon guys, that's exactly what he's SUPPOSED to do in his career arc. Nobody can argue that he's not one of the best hitters of the last 25 years. That level of ability comes with talent that simply sets him apart from other MLB players, so why is it so impossible to accept the fact that he's simply been a great player from the start? 3) I won't be a KU fan and claim that we don't care if STL wins the season series against KC. I absolutely hate it when we lose to you guys. However, I car far more about beating the Mets, Astros, Cubs, Brewers and Braves. I also care more about the results over 162 games...or 2 decades. Take your season series victory, I'll take my decade of sustained success, a couple of pennants and a WS title. 4) AL baseball sucks ass. The DH has done more to hurt the sport than 'roids, IMO. Baseball has always been about the chess pieces as much as the athleticism. The DH kills at least 1/2 the strategy and greatly damages part of what makes baseball great. 5) Manny covers the plate better than Albert. Manny's the best bad-ball hitter I've ever seen and likely the best I ever will. He doesn't have the focus Albert has, but Manny is a more talented hitter. Albert's better at keeping an inside fastball fair down the LF line, but Manny can take any ball within 8 inches of the zone in any direction and hit it hard. His lack of preparation will lead to him taking some akward swings and getting off balance(which Pujols never does), but I've seen him put a ball 425 feet while swinging off his front foot with one arm. Manny is possibly the most talented RH hitter of all time. 6) Lidge was the best reliever in baseball last season, I think he came back around nicely. He'll plummet to earth soon, however. The torque generated by his slider will eventually take its toll on his elbow. The Mets will learn this with K-Rod as well. If Lidge loses even a little bit of his slider, he's useless. He can't spot his fastball well enough to survive without an A+ slider. 7) Cardinals fans recognized McGwire for what he was. Most of us knew he was a steroid freak and a limited player. He had great power, a great batting eye and an underrated glove. Sure, there were the local fanboys and old women that came out to see him, but all fanbases have their bandwagon idiots. To say that the Cardinals fan in general held him out as 'the greatest ever' is another assinine strawman generated by folks just looking to knock down the next big thing.
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