need advice with family issue

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by Phobia

I don't think I've ever agreed with Denise almost universally in a thread in the *gasp* 15-20 years I've known her. When did she get smart?

**** all of you for quoting her...

[memyselfI]

Originally Posted by Phobia

I don't think I've ever agreed with Denise almost universally in a thread in the *gasp* 15-20 years I've known her. When did she get smart?

Thanks Phil, maybe your reading comprehension improved.

Unfortunately my opinion on this issue has been acquired the old fashioned way, through experience.

I think the Mother was looking either to be rescued by her son or to have someone else to vilify instead of the BF. Maybe she didn't even know which she wanted. Either way, she put Tooge in a no win situation of which he needs to stay clear. He shouldn't be the one demanding the BF get counseling or go to AA. That is for his mother to demand and stick to. If neither the BF or the Mom are ready for that step, which it sounds like they are not, then Tooge becomes the villain and bad guy here. Don't allow the BF, or your Mother, off the hook that easy. Ultimately, she is choosing to allow herself to be mistreated IN HER OWN HOUSE.

[beach tribe]

This is obviously more extreme than your situation, but the principle is the same.

[FAX]

Originally Posted by tooge

Ok, so about 4 weeks ago, I get a call from my mom. she's sobbing as she tells me her fiance (my dad passed 4 years ago) has been verbally abusing her and shoving her and she has decided to have a restraining order and have him removed from the house. I applaud her, tell her I'm there for her, call him and let him know that I am aware of what has been going on, and as far as I'm concerned, he is out permenantly. My mother on the other hand, said things like "if he gets therapy and goes to AA, maybe I'll start by dating him again". She told me that he told her that my father never loved her or us kids. That's when it became personal for me. So I call jackass up, ask if all this is true, he beats around the bush, but eventually fesses up under the guise of too much drinking and some anger management issues. He promises he will get help but just loves my mom. I tell him I'm only 2.5 hours away and wont hesitate to come up there to make sure she is OK. I even let him know, I'm not afraid of a few nights in jail.

So, yesterday, I get home from a weeklong vacation. I call my brother, who my family will be staying with when we go up for Thanksgiving. Through casual conversation, I find out that jackass is back in my mothers house, and plans on being there for Thanksgiving.

I call my mother, she says he's trying very hard and if he screws up, he is out. He has been to a counselor once since this, and no AA meetings or anygthing like that, though he is reportedly on "medication" now.

I told my mother that I'm not comfortable taking my children up there, and since I wasn't the one that made the situation what it is, then perhaps he could leave the house for the day while we are there. She refused, so I said **** it then, we aren't coming. She gets all pissy and tells me all the things she did for me as a mother and I should come up for her. I'm not going on principal, not to mention, I'd be uncomfortable and might even get in the guys face. Am I doing the right thing? Should I just eat my principles, and go and be a good little son and sit there and act nice? What say you Dr. CP?

I just noticed this thread thing and, to be honest, I haven't read the whole deal ... it's kinda long at this point. Nevertheless, here's my answer;

Yes, you're doing the right thing, Mr. tooge. Unquestionably.

Your first responsibility is to your children now. Your mother has to make her own mistakes going forward (just as we all do) now that you are all grown up with kids of your own.

Blackball this dumbass until he is gone (which won't be very long, I guarantee). If he isn't going to AA meetings, he isn't serious and he won't get better ... that, my friend, is another rock-solid guarantee.

FAX

[Bwana]

Damn dude, that sounds like a bad deal and I think you're doing the right thing. If the old boy gets out of line again, play it cool, buy him a one way ticket to Montana to do some ATVing and fly fishing with your "cousin's Bwana and rockymtnchief." He won't be found again until he turns into oil. There's a lot of open land up here.

[luv]

Originally Posted by FAX

I just noticed this thread thing and, to be honest, I haven't read the whole deal ... it's kinda long at this point. Nevertheless, here's my answer;

Yes, you're doing the right thing, Mr. tooge. Unquestionably.

Your first responsibility is to your children now. Your mother has to make her own mistakes going forward (just as we all do) now that you are all grown up with kids of your own.

Blackball this dumbass until he is gone (which won't be very long, I guarantee). If he isn't going to AA meetings, he isn't serious and he won't get better ... that, my friend, is another rock-solid guarantee.

FAX

I don't have kids, so I can't totally empathize on protecting your kids, but this sounds solid to me. I would add to let her know that, although she is upset with you right now, you will always be there when she absolutely needs you.

[tooge]

Thanks man. I'm not giving in. I'll give her a call in a week or two just to say hello and talk small talk. The thing with the BF is that if he really was intending to get better and become part of the family, I would think he would remove himself from the situation for a few days so our family could be together. At least that is whay I'd do if I screwed a situation up and wanted back in. Anyhow, I've spoken to my brother, and while he and I have differing views on "second chances" about all this, he respects my decision and supports it. I'm gonna enjoy my family and a few days off, and I don't even have to travel now! Your advice has been invaluable Chiefshrink. I hope you don't mind that I've paraphrased you several times in discussing this with my wife and she is amazed how spot on you are about my mother, her actions, her manipulations, etc. Thanks again man. Have a great Thanksgiving. I know I will.

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by tooge

Thanks man. I'm not giving in. I'll give her a call in a week or two just to say hello and talk small talk. The thing with the BF is that if he really was intending to get better and become part of the family, I would think he would remove himself from the situation for a few days so our family could be together. At least that is whay I'd do if I screwed a situation up and wanted back in. Anyhow, I've spoken to my brother, and while he and I have differing views on "second chances" about all this, he respects my decision and supports it.

I'm sure you have already realized this but maybe not. You, like me and many on this board are 'recovering co-dependents'. As you embark on this new healthy life adventure with you and your family, I would recommend 2 MUST reads in order for your personal growth and healing to continue: 1) 'Boundaries' by Cloud and Townsend and 2)'Recovery: A Guide For Adult Children of Alcoholics' by Gravitz and Bowden.

One of the most unfortunate results and ulgiest things to witness in a co-dependent/addict that is not recovering is called "enmeshment". Early on in the family where kids and parents roles are reversed because 'boundaries' were never establised or followed. Kids were expected to be the responsible parent or the surrogate husband or surrogate wife of the co-dependent/addict(depending). And this is seen as normal for the kids because this is all they have known in this chaotic family but the kids don't see the chaos because chaos is normal for them. Thus over time the kids take on emotional, relational and physical responsibilities of the co-dependent/addict they were never intended to have let alone deal with the significant emotional damage from those childhood periods that takes years to work through.

Based on you and your brother's conversation you and your brother have unknowningly took turns being the 'surrogate husband' for your mom since childhood with your brother still choosing 'unconsciously' of course to still be the surrogate husband. He differed with you about 'second chances'. The 'second chances' comment was a huge red flag for me about your brother still not getting the big picture and still playing the co-dependent surrogate husband role taking care and feeling responsible for her feelings and happiness. Whereas you on the other hand are figuring this whole relational cess pool out and now protecting yourself and your family until hopefully MOM gets it.

I do agree you should not totally cut off communication with your Mom, BUT at this point in the process, because this family wound is so new and sensitive and you are just now learning about 'Family Dynamics of Addiction' and your past role in it and learning how not to play that role; I would stay away for awhile and let her make the first move. She has drawn 'first blood' on you kids for decades now. The insanity needs to stop. And when she does contact you in due time( and she will because in her eyes you are still her emotional surrogate husband) you need to make sure there is no small talk. Substance only, because there is a huge family elephant in the room that needs to be dealt with. This will be a big emotional test for you as you get better. The more you deal straight with your Mom the less it will bother you emotionally not to rescue her in the future and thus you become stronger emotionally for yourself and your family 'for a change'. And man does that feel so liberating and refreshing that life could be this good.

Whatever you do, do not push any of these co-dependent books or help on her. That would be 'co-dependent' and would stifle your recovery because once again your focus is distracted away from you and your family in feeling responsible for her getting better. She is responsible for her own recovery and you can't fix her/change her, PERIOD. Keep up the great work and be emotionally courageous in all your new personal endeavors of discovering a great new life !!!

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family and all here at CP !!!

[MOhillbilly]

Drink all his booze and kick his teeth in.

[CoMoChief]

Originally Posted by MOhillbilly

Drink all his booze and kick his teeth in.

**** YEAH......THIS!!!!

JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY!!!!!!