Without Gun this is a 4-12 Team

[KCJohnny]

Herm came in and achieved "balance". That's what you could say after having a D suck so bad the past 5 years that getting under 300 points (we didn't) would have been a monumental achievement. But in the name of "balance" we took the league's best offense and demoted it to a predictable, 1-dimensional cliche that dropped SIXTEEN places in ranking and performed worse than almost any offense in NFL playoff history (126 yards of total offense).

I think without Gun trying to make shinola out of $#!+ with Herm's insistance on Cover 2, this team is horrible. The Colts game shows that the testicles are on D, and that is NOT because Herm "changed the focus". If DV was here, we'd be 14-2 and laughing at the Colts because he kept Gun. That said, this team had better realize that flushing DV's O leaves not much in its place. Thank God for Gun, because without him and these over-acheivers, this team is a waste of talent. Hopefully Gun stays and keeps this team at least semi-competitive.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

I guess you don't get local TV.

I don't need local TV to tell me that statement is BS.

[penchief]

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

It was Mr. Hunt who directed CP to bring Gun back.

And was it Mr. Hunt that directed him to fire Gunther? Nice try but get real.

[KCJohnny]

Originally Posted by Brock

I don't need local TV to tell me that statement is BS.

Well you are wrong, Metro Sports ran the story on the event of Mr. Hunt's funeral. I am sure other locals heard it, too.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish

They didn't play him for 6 years. They didn't give him 28 million dollars.

well the good thing is gun had NOTHING to do with that. I know the Chiefs made a huge mistake, but my post is for backing up Guntharr not stupid ass carl.

[penchief]

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

Well you are wrong, Metro Sports ran the story on the event of Mr. Hunt's funeral. I am sure other locals heard it, too.

I would believe that Lamar Hunt gave Peterson the okay if Carl wanted to rehire Gunther but I can't believe that Lamar ordered Peterson to do so. That would be out of character for Lamar Hunt, IMO. That sounds ridiculous.

Gunther got fired for a reason and he got re-hired for a reason. I believe he was brought back out of loyalty for the defenses that he produced during his previous stint as DC and for his loyalty toward the organization. I believe that Hunt and Peterson both had an affection for Gunther because Cunningham bleeds chiefs red.

However, lets not forget that the defense started going downhill as soon as Marty left and showed it's first signifigant improvement once Herm arrived. I don't think that's coincidence.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by penchief

I'm pretty sure it was Herm's gameplan.

Pretty sures dont work. We dont know whos plan it was, you can speculate all you want, but you still dont relaly know, and either do i.

I don't know but I'll bet Allen was Vermeil's choice because he reminded him of his beloved Grant Wistrom. Gunther has tended to prefer project/potential guys like Siavvi/Battle/Bartee/Carlos Hall, etc. rather than production guys like Allen and Hali. Derrick Johnson was a no-brainer that we were fortunate to have fall to us.

Again, you dont really know. It was all speculating.

That's why Peterson brought him back, right? Why would he have done that? Why did Gunther return? Peterson's love for Gunther has been well-documented. Why else would a GM in the NFL bring back a guy that he fired previously regardless of his performance? Loyalty would be my guess.

If your loyal to someone you DO NOT i repeat you do NOT fire them over the internet. I dont care how you spin it. You just dont do that to someone your loyal to.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by penchief

And was it Mr. Hunt that directed him to fire Gunther? Nice try but get real.

No kidding. That's the most ridiculous thing I've read all day. Just utter nonsense.

[penchief]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

Pretty sures dont work. We dont know whos plan it was, you can speculate all you want, but you still dont relaly know, and either do i.

I'm going by each coach's track record. We're playing Herm's style of defense, not Gunther's. If it walks like Herm's defense and quacks like Herm's defense, then it's probably Herm's defense.

Originally Posted by kcxiv

Again, you dont really know. It was all speculating. If your loyal to someone you DO NOT i repeat you do NOT fire them over the internet. I dont care how you spin it. You just dont do that to someone your loyal to.

Does anyone really know how that all went down? Could it have been nothing more than Carl being responsible for the cart arriving before horse without it being a case of disrespect?

Gunther was brought back without doing anything significant to merit that return other than his previous performance as Chiefs DC. Certainly, his development of Keith Bullock doesn't earn him a new DC job by itself?

Also, it's no coincidence that our defense started going downhill after Marty left and only made a significant improvement once Herm's scheme was installed and Edwards brought in a bunch of his type players.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

Pretty sures dont work. We dont know whos plan it was, you can speculate all you want, but you still dont relaly know, and either do i

we don't need to know.....


Herman Edwards is the coach ... he's responsible for the gameplan on both sides of the ball.


Even if he "does nothing" he is making the decision by absentia.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by penchief

I'm going by each coach's track record. We're playing Herm's style of defense, not Gunther's. If it walks like Herm's defense and quacks like Herm's defense, then it's probably Herm's defense.



Does anyone really know how that all went down? Could it have been nothing more than Carl being responsible for the cart arriving before horse without it being a case of disrespect?

Gunther was brought back without doing anything significant to merit that return other than his previous performance as Chiefs DC. Certainly, his development of Keith Bullock doesn't earn him a new DC job by itself?

Also, it's no coincidence that our defense started going downhill after Marty left and only made a significant improvement once Herm's scheme was installed and Edwards brought in a bunch of his type players.

actually yes, Guntharr said he was surfing the internet and he seen that was was out as coach. so thats how that went down. I even think Carl at one point admited to it, and said it was totally wrong by his part.

I also think i remmeber Gun saying he played alot of cover 2 last year as well.

[penchief]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

actually yes, Guntharr said he was surfing the internet and he seen that was was out as coach. so thats how that went down. I even think Carl at one point admited to it, and said it was totally wrong by his part.

I also think i remmeber Gun saying he played alot of cover 2 last year as well.

I know but listen to what I'm asking.

Do you really believe that Peterson had so much contempt for Gunther that he did not intend to meet with him? Do you really think that Peterson's plan was for Gunther to find out while surfing the internet? I mean, com'n.

It sounds like that side of the story came from Gunther. And why would Cunningham reveal that if he wasn't looking for sympathy or if he wasn't angry? If Peterson really intended to disrespect Gunther why would he rehire him? And why, if Lamar Hunt approved of his firing would he order his rehiring?

Was Cunningham aware that his job was on the line? Probably. Is it possible that he was obsessed with his status? Is it possible that his obsession with the status of his job motivated him to be surfing the net for Chiefs news?

Like I said, isn't it possible that Peterson allowed the cart to get before the horse without it being an intentional act? And isn't it possible that others within the organization knew about it and proliferated the information before Peterson called Gunther?

Isn't it also possible that because Peterson respects Gunther and believes that Cunningham is a "true chief" that his guilt about how all that shit went down partially inspired him to give Cunningham another chance at the job Gunther loves, Kansas City Chiefs defensive coordinator.

I'm rooting for Gunther. I just hope he has the ability to adapt and change. I want him to be here when we hoist the Lamar Hunt Trophy. He is a true chief. I'll give him that.

[KCJohnny]

Originally Posted by Brock

No kidding. That's the most ridiculous thing I've read all day. Just utter nonsense.

Fine. No skin off my teeth. Metro Sports reported that after Gun got fired, Mr. Hunt told him, "you're going into exhile for a while. After things die down, you are coming home to Kansas City where you belong." I gives a damn whether you believe me or not, that's what Gun said Mr. Hunt told him.

[Brock]

Yeah, you don't care whether anyone believes you, but you keep arguing with second hand blah blah that nobody but you heard, as if this somehow proves your original point that "Lamar ordered Carl to rehire Gunther".

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

Please, provide us with the name of a DC that can use the Chiefs 2005 roster and dominate opponents.

Remember, our 2005 defensive roster was hand picked by Gun himself.

[CHIEF4EVER]

Johnny, I have held my peace but now I am going to weigh in with my opinion.

1. I was on the "give Herm a chance" bandwagon because I thought that was the only way to be fair and it is. However, since he has been here Herm has neutered the Offense and made the D average vs. atrocious. Herm is the head coach. It is HIS responsibility and HIS ALONE to formulate the final game plan and give the instructions to his Coordinators to execute it. On the Offensive side of the ball he failed miserably. ESPECIALLY in the game on Saturday. Nobody on this planet can tell me he didn't know after the first series that running the ball up Wiegmanns ass was futile unless the pass opened up the run since Indy was keying on it (the run) so much (with 8 in the box nearly every play).

2. Gunther did a Journeymans job with the talent he has. No more, no less. I WILL say that he needs to improve drastically in his Second Half adjustments. Gunther didn't do the "Master's Job" of containing the Indy offense and saving us more embarrassment, Peyton Manning and Ty Law did. Mainly Peyton Manning. No QB in the friggin universe can throw 3 picks and still win a football game at this level unless the picks are squandered. They were and not just by the Offense. After TG's Touchdown, Gunther's "embarrassment saving" D managed to give up the ass and let Indy score 7.