Football To the Herm haters. - Page 10

kcbubb · 07-29-2009, 11:37 AM

I'm tired of all the blame going to Herm. Yes, Herm had his share of blunders but the amount of hate that he gets is ridiculous. The biggest mistake that Herm made was underestimating the impact of Jared Allen. And I did too at the time. In 2007, the Chiefs almost had a top 10 defense despite their terrible offense. We know what happened in 2008. But we are quick to forget the defense of 2007. I'm not saying the Herm was a great coach, but he is not as bad as some here believe.

Just to irritate you, lets take a look at what might have been if Herm had stuck around.

-First the acquisition of Cassell never happens. Herm sticks with Thigpen and Gailey runs the system that worked well in the latter half of the season.

-The switch to the 3-4 never happens and the Chiefs continue to run a 4-3 defense.

-Most likely, no notable free agents are picked up.

-Tony Gonzalez remains with the Chiefs.

-The draft rolls around and Herm takes the safe route as usual and picks the following players:

1. Aaron Curry
2. Everette Brown (Herm likes this pick bc of the desperate need for a pass rusher to replace Jared Allen who was lost in 07 and the success of another small DE Dwight Freeney with the Colts where his role model Tony Dungy coached.)
3. Antione Caldwell (Mal Moore leadership award winner is drafted here) Herm kinda player. And can play all line positions but primarily C or G.
4. Louis Murphy (Herm picks a wide out for the needed depth and Murphy provide some speed.)
5. Jasper Brinkley (Tough middle linebacker probably starts.)
6. Andrew Gardner (RT tackle pushes or replaces McIntosh)
7. Captain Munnerlyn (CB and returner)
7. Ricky Jean-Francois (depth at DT)
7. Ryan Succop K

And to top it off. After speaking with Tony Dungy about Michael Vick, who has been mentoring Vick, Herm trusts Dungy and decides to give Vick a shot at backing up Tyler Thigpen.

Would all of this happened... probably not, but it is interesting to think about what might have been if Herm and Carl would have stayed. Again, I don't think Herm is great and I definitely don't think Carl was good, but I do wonder what might have happened. I do like the draft above much better than our current one, and I do like that we still would have Tony G.

Hammock Parties · 07-29-2009, 05:58 PM

Gunther is apparently respected in the NFL, too.

It doesn't mean shit.

Which makes your point about Herm worthless.

Just Passin' By · 07-29-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I think most people would acknowledge most of the Chiefs issues of today are the fault of Dick Vermiels old man win right now philosophy. He didn't care about drafting or developing players he was to old to have time for that.

Hell he didn't even seem to want to learn new players names.

The Chiefs suck because the drafts have sucked ass since before Vermeil came on board, and free agency hasn't been good enough to pick up the slack.

Edwards sucks as a coach for reasons independent of the talent on the team. When your head coach needs an assistant just for clock management, it's just not a good sign.

**luv** · 07-29-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I will never pick them to beat Denver in Denver till I see it happen...just the same as there's no way I'm picking them to beat the Chargers.

Cleveland is winnable..I expect them to get waxed by the entire NFC East...

Hey, we almost beat San Diego last year. I tend to be optimistic. And I forgot about Cleveland. I was also rethinking both Broncos games due to the game in Denver, but, again, optimistic.

Mecca · 07-29-2009, 06:01 PM

The players drafted when Vermiels years are the ones that should be in their primes today, his misses are what really makes the team awful today.

**Skip Towne** · 07-29-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

The Chiefs suck because the drafts have sucked ass since before Vermeil came on board, and free agency hasn't been good enough to pick up the slack.

Edwards sucks as a coach for reasons independent of the talent on the team. When your head coach needs an assistant just for clock management, it's just not a good sign.

Even then he picked Dick Curl. He's about as inept as they come.

Mecca · 07-29-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luv

Hey, we almost beat San Diego last year. I tend to be optimistic. And I forgot about Cleveland. I was also rethinking both Broncos games due to the game in Denver, but, again, optimistic.

They have some tossup type games like Cincy and Buffalo....

Buffalo is either going to be a big surprise or a total fall on it's face failure this year. I'm leaning to the first since Owens is always on top of his game and on his best behavior his first year.

Just Passin' By · 07-29-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip Towne

Even then he picked Dick Curl. He's about as inept as they come.

Indeed. It's not a matter of apportioning blame for the Chiefs' current predicament. It's a matter of flushing the toilet. The GM is gone. The head coach and a lot of assistants are gone. The scouting staff is gone. A lot of players are gone.

Over the course of the next year, there will probably be some more changes among the assistants, and there will likely be a continued house cleaning of the ~~stiffs~~ players drafted and signed before Pioli's arrival, as the flushing of the turds gets finished. If I were a Chiefs fan, I wouldn't start focusing on the team's record until at least year 3 of the new regime.

But none of this will magically transform Herm Edwards into a better than terrible NFL head coach.

Mecca · 07-29-2009, 06:08 PM

I wouldn't say they drafted all stiffs but they did draft a bunch of guys who don't fit Pioli's preferred defense.

**Skip Towne** · 07-29-2009, 06:15 PM

Has anybody mentioned Herm's ability to kill QB's. How many did he kill between us and the Jets?

Just Passin' By · 07-29-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I wouldn't say they drafted all stiffs but they did draft a bunch of guys who don't fit Pioli's preferred defense.

I don't think I said that every draft pick was a stiff, but this is not a successful draft history from 2000-2006:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/ful...2310&type=team

and, while the jury's still out on 2007 and 2008, I don't think 2007 is looking very good. Herm has been a terrible head coach, but it'd be tough for Lombardi to compete with that kind of drafting. The full flush is what's needed in K.C.

Mecca · 07-29-2009, 06:22 PM

I got busted on for saying I thought some of those drafts were pretty bad...

I think Tamba Hali is going to look like a total abomination this year.

FAX · 07-29-2009, 06:30 PM

I said it so many times, it feels like one of Mr. billay's reposts. But, where did people get the idea that Herm was a personnel genius? He sure had that reputation around here with some fans.

Is it merely because he was, once upon a time, a scout? Or, did he find some diamond in the rough in Tampa or NY? Anybody know? His draft history with the Chiefs will turn out to be a little less than spectacular, I'm afraid.

FAX

Just Passin' By · 07-29-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I got busted on for saying I thought some of those drafts were pretty bad...

I think Tamba Hali is going to look like a total abomination this year.

Hali and Tyler are both under the microscope, I expect. Really, would you be shocked if one, or both, of them got cut or traded before the start of the season?

**DeezNutz** · 07-29-2009, 06:31 PM

Title of this thread should be "To Chiefsplanet:"

el borracho · 07-29-2009, 07:13 PM

Overall: 54-74
Herm's Chiefs: 15-33
Last 4 seasons as head coach: 19-45

Herm was a disaster as a head coach who deserves every bit of criticism he receives.

07-29-2009, 11:37 AM
kcbubb Veteran Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $5156719	To the Herm haters. I'm tired of all the blame going to Herm. Yes, Herm had his share of blunders but the amount of hate that he gets is ridiculous. The biggest mistake that Herm made was underestimating the impact of Jared Allen. And I did too at the time. In 2007, the Chiefs almost had a top 10 defense despite their terrible offense. We know what happened in 2008. But we are quick to forget the defense of 2007. I'm not saying the Herm was a great coach, but he is not as bad as some here believe. Just to irritate you, lets take a look at what might have been if Herm had stuck around. -First the acquisition of Cassell never happens. Herm sticks with Thigpen and Gailey runs the system that worked well in the latter half of the season. -The switch to the 3-4 never happens and the Chiefs continue to run a 4-3 defense. -Most likely, no notable free agents are picked up. -Tony Gonzalez remains with the Chiefs. -The draft rolls around and Herm takes the safe route as usual and picks the following players: 1. Aaron Curry 2. Everette Brown (Herm likes this pick bc of the desperate need for a pass rusher to replace Jared Allen who was lost in 07 and the success of another small DE Dwight Freeney with the Colts where his role model Tony Dungy coached.) 3. Antione Caldwell (Mal Moore leadership award winner is drafted here) Herm kinda player. And can play all line positions but primarily C or G. 4. Louis Murphy (Herm picks a wide out for the needed depth and Murphy provide some speed.) 5. Jasper Brinkley (Tough middle linebacker probably starts.) 6. Andrew Gardner (RT tackle pushes or replaces McIntosh) 7. Captain Munnerlyn (CB and returner) 7. Ricky Jean-Francois (depth at DT) 7. Ryan Succop K And to top it off. After speaking with Tony Dungy about Michael Vick, who has been mentoring Vick, Herm trusts Dungy and decides to give Vick a shot at backing up Tyler Thigpen. Would all of this happened... probably not, but it is interesting to think about what might have been if Herm and Carl would have stayed. Again, I don't think Herm is great and I definitely don't think Carl was good, but I do wonder what might have happened. I do like the draft above much better than our current one, and I do like that we still would have Tony G.
Posts: 2,549

07-29-2009, 05:58 PM	#136
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $1020478	Gunther is apparently respected in the NFL, too. It doesn't mean shit. Which makes your point about Herm worthless. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 296,731

07-29-2009, 06:01 PM	#139
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-502950	The players drafted when Vermiels years are the ones that should be in their primes today, his misses are what really makes the team awful today.
Posts: 115,252

07-29-2009, 06:08 PM	#143
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-502950	I wouldn't say they drafted all stiffs but they did draft a bunch of guys who don't fit Pioli's preferred defense.
Posts: 115,252

07-29-2009, 06:15 PM	#144
Skip Towne Supporter Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: T-Town Casino cash: $10004900	Has anybody mentioned Herm's ability to kill QB's. How many did he kill between us and the Jets?
Posts: 69,689

07-29-2009, 06:22 PM	#146
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-502950	I got busted on for saying I thought some of those drafts were pretty bad... I think Tamba Hali is going to look like a total abomination this year.
Posts: 115,252

07-29-2009, 06:30 PM	#147
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	I said it so many times, it feels like one of Mr. billay's reposts. But, where did people get the idea that Herm was a personnel genius? He sure had that reputation around here with some fans. Is it merely because he was, once upon a time, a scout? Or, did he find some diamond in the rough in Tampa or NY? Anybody know? His draft history with the Chiefs will turn out to be a little less than spectacular, I'm afraid. FAX
Posts: 44,492

07-29-2009, 07:13 PM	#150
el borracho In Pat We Trust Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Albuquerque, NM Casino cash: $2729148	Probably already posted but, what the hell... Overall: 54-74 Herm's Chiefs: 15-33 Last 4 seasons as head coach: 19-45 Herm was a disaster as a head coach who deserves every bit of criticism he receives.
Posts: 12,243