I owe Kyle Orton an apology...

[threebag]

For ****s sake can we please change the SenselessChiefsFan name to SenselessCasselFan. Maybe it could be Bissel cause I haven't seen anything suck a set of nuts like this.

[BossChief]

Senseless is a straight up football comedian.

[mcan]

I do think senseless is right in that getting rid of haley and letting these coaches do their thing is the #1 (by far) reason we won today's game. I would also be curious if Cassel were playing in a well organized, well prepared, well schemed offense, if he wouldn't be as good as Orton was today in terms of making throws and looking successful. There really isn't a great way to answer those questions, so I look at the intangibles. Orton hasn't showed me in his limited time here that he has many, but I was SICK to death of the "too many men on the line" and "tackle was uncovered" or "2 men moving at the snap" or "illegal shift" penalties that seemed to just rack up while Cassel was under center. Now, they also racked up under Palko, BUT at least today, like I mentioned earlier, when Breaston was on the line, covering the TE (illegal), at least Orton had the presence of mind to say, "hey douchebag, back up a little" and wave him back.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by mcan

I do think senseless is right in that getting rid of haley and letting these coaches do their thing is the #1 (by far) reason we won today's game. I would also be curious if Cassel were playing in a well organized, well prepared, well schemed offense, if he wouldn't be as good as Orton was today in terms of making throws and looking successful. There really isn't a great way to answer those questions, so I look at the intangibles. Orton hasn't showed me in his limited time here that he has many, but I was SICK to death of the "too many men on the line" and "tackle was uncovered" or "2 men moving at the snap" or "illegal shift" penalties that seemed to just rack up while Cassel was under center. Now, they also racked up under Palko, BUT at least today, like I mentioned earlier, when Breaston was on the line, covering the TE (illegal), at least Orton had the presence of mind to say, "hey douchebag, back up a little" and wave him back.

It helps when the play is in on time. A coaches job is to take as much pressure off the players as possible. That includes getting the plays in and letting the QB make a presnap read.

[mcan]

Originally Posted by SenselessChiefsFan

It helps when the play is in on time. A coaches job is to take as much pressure off the players as possible. That includes getting the plays in and letting the QB make a presnap read.

This is true. I'm just doing my best to be objective. At no time during Cassel's tenure here so far did I ever see him do anything that made me think he was in control of his offense or team, or was a genuine leader or had any football presence. I like telling the story of Trent Green during his first game as a Chief back in 2001. We lost that game to the Raiders, but on our last offensive possession (you might remember Snoop Minnis laying out and catching that TD), there was a play where Trent rolled to his right on a 4th down and short. TRich was open and waving his hands at the marker, but there was a linebacker about to hit him in the back when the ball go there. Trent pointed to the linebacker as he ran and TRich turned and put that linebacker on his butt, allowing trent to scramble for the first. When I saw that play, I knew the Chiefs had somebody special. It takes a good QB to make that throw on the run, and GREAT fullback to catch that ball cleanly while being hit in the back... It takes a GREAT QB to NOT throw that ball, and a genuine leader to actually POINT to the guy he wanted blocked.

Of course, that year Trent became known as TrInt, and his numbers weren't that great. But there were CLEARLY intangibles that made me certain that if we stuck with this guy, we would have an amazing offense.

In his 3 years here, I have yet to see Cassel do anything on the field that has given me a similar feeling. So, even if Orton isn't any better, I don't have a problem with Cassel getting the boot. No problems at all.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by mcan

This is true. I'm just doing my best to be objective. At no time during Cassel's tenure here so far did I ever see him do anything that made me think he was in control of his offense or team, or was a genuine leader or had any football presence. I like telling the story of Trent Green during his first game as a Chief back in 2001. We lost that game to the Raiders, but on our last offensive possession (you might remember Snoop Minnis laying out and catching that TD), there was a play where Trent rolled to his right on a 4th down and short. TRich was open and waving his hands at the marker, but there was a linebacker about to hit him in the back when the ball go there. Trent pointed to the linebacker as he ran and TRich turned and put that linebacker on his butt, allowing trent to scramble for the first. When I saw that play, I knew the Chiefs had somebody special. It takes a good QB to make that throw on the run, and GREAT fullback to catch that ball cleanly while being hit in the back... It takes a GREAT QB to NOT throw that ball, and a genuine leader to actually POINT to the guy he wanted blocked.

Of course, that year Trent became known as TrInt, and his numbers weren't that great. But there were CLEARLY intangibles that made me certain that if we stuck with this guy, we would have an amazing offense.

In his 3 years here, I have yet to see Cassel do anything on the field that has given me a similar feeling. So, even if Orton isn't any better, I don't have a problem with Cassel getting the boot. No problems at all.

I saw Cassel changing some things up last year and lining guys up correctly on the line.

I don't have a problem with Cassel being gone as well. I just think that Orton isn't any better, and in the long run will prove to be worse.

But, I have stated that the Chiefs should draft a QB this year. Of course, now that Haley is gone, the Chiefs will probably win out and lose the opportunity to get one of the top three.

I fully expect the Chiefs to trade down this year.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by SenselessChiefsFan

It helps when the play is in on time. A coaches job is to take as much pressure off the players as possible. That includes getting the plays in and letting the QB make a presnap read.

That wasn't a problem last year. Matt still showed no ability to make pre snap adjustments, find a 2nd or 3rd target, or throw an accurate ball and he was one of the worst in the NFL at throwing a deep ball.

And this is cinsidering that defenses were throwing 8 in a box loading up against the run. That's a qbs wet dream.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

That wasn't a problem last year. Matt still showed no ability to make pre snap adjustments, find a 2nd or 3rd target, or throw an accurate ball and he was one of the worst in the NFL at throwing a deep ball.

And this is cinsidering that defenses were throwing 8 in a box loading up against the run. That's a qbs wet dream.

Don't know where Petro found it, but his downfield completion percentage over his career is better than Orton.

I guess I should just change my argument. Because it isn't really who is better, it is that Orton still isn't good enough.

But, if you asked me to pick a QB out of those two for the NFL, it has to be Cassel.

Why? Orton doesn't put in the work, and football isn't his first priority.

See, that is why McDaniels loves Cassel. That is why I would choose Cassel over Orton.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by SenselessChiefsFan

Don't know where Petro found it, but his downfield completion percentage over his career is better than Orton.

I guess I should just change my argument. Because it isn't really who is better, it is that Orton still isn't good enough.

But, if you asked me to pick a QB out of those two for the NFL, it has to be Cassel.

Why? Orton doesn't put in the work, and football isn't his first priority.

See, that is why McDaniels loves Cassel. That is why I would choose Cassel over Orton.

Over his career. Thats what happens when you have the best jump ball receiver of all time in Randy moss. Daunte Culpepper was nails when he had moss too.

Your comment on or ton's work ethic are ridiculous and unfounded. from what I've heard, he has a very good work ethic and his teammates like him. Mcdaniels loved cassel because he knew he could run his system. You have no idea who he would choose today. Remember, he chose cassel over orton in Denver because he had never worked with orton before.

Also, the fact that cassel puts in a ton of work and doesn't improve is a huge concern.

No, cassel does not make good pre snap adjustments. Too many plays where you see more blitzers than blockers. That's a qb issue.

Nobody here wants orton as a long term option. You are the only one who for whatever bizarre reason thinks cassel is any good. Again, the chiefs didn't have problems with play calling or communication last year. And cassel still struggled, despite his stats. Quite simply, he is a one read guy. You send in the play and he throws to his primary target or else check down. That works when you have moss. It does not work when you have even very good receivers like bowe.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by SenselessChiefsFan

That is why I would choose Cassel over Orton.

You might be the dumbest ****er on this board or top three.

[WhiteWhale]

Originally Posted by SenselessChiefsFan

Don't know where Petro found it, but his downfield completion percentage over his career is better than Orton.

I guess I should just change my argument. Because it isn't really who is better, it is that Orton still isn't good enough.

But, if you asked me to pick a QB out of those two for the NFL, it has to be Cassel.

Why? Orton doesn't put in the work, and football isn't his first priority.

See, that is why McDaniels loves Cassel. That is why I would choose Cassel over Orton.

I'm not some Orton fan, but this is pure speculative nonsense.

[threebag]

JFC there is no way in hell Matt Cassel contributes to defeat the Pack. Get ****ing Real.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by threebag02

JFC there is no way in hell Matt Cassel contributes to defeat the Pack. Get ****ing Real.

Not under Haley, that is for sure.

The funny part is that we didn't get to see how Orton worked with Haley.

So much of a QB's success is the relationship with the head coach/offensive coordinator.

I think that Haley may have worked better with Orton than with Cassel. But, I also think that Cassel would work with other HC's and offensive coordinators than Haley.

[threebag]

I guess I was wrong Matt did the best thing he could to help this squad.



He was standing on the ****ing sideline.

[threebag]

Cassel arm strength/accuracy < Orton arm strength/accuracy. PERIOD.