Chiefs Jones vs. 1st Rounder + $20m - Page 10

**DaFace** · 02-18-2020, 11:08 AM

Obviously this is going to be a key discussion this offseason. On The Athletic's podcast (Time's Ours), Nate Taylor said that he's heard that there are multiple teams out there who would give us a 1st round pick for Jones (assuming we tag and trade him), and possibly more than that.

So just to lay out a simplified version of the options:

Option 1:
Chris Jones (probably around $20m per year)

Option 2:
1st round draft pick (cheap for 4-5 years)
$20m worth of other players

For context on how much other players might cost based on recent free agents we've signed:
Clark - $21m
Mathieu - $14m
Hitchens - $9m
Schwartz - $8m
Okafor - $6m

So...which way do we go?

BlackOp · 02-18-2020, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Remember how pissed we were when King Carl traded Jared Allen because he didn’t want to pay him? Ended up getting Jamal Charles and Brandon Albert with the pics in the trade. Veach is way way better in making the right picks than King Carl. Just sayin.

The core of KC's defense should be HB, Clark, Jones and Pennel. Everyone else is expendable/replaceable.

Spags has had an entire year to evaluate his roster...it'll be an interesting draft. Landing a play-making LBer would go a long way...

**Buehler445** · 02-19-2020, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackOp

The core of KC's defense should be HB, Clark, Jones and Pennel. Everyone else is expendable/replaceable.

Spags has had an entire year to evaluate his roster...it'll be an interesting draft. Landing a play-making LBer would go a long way...

They’re not expendable though.

You can’t roll out Phillip Gaines and 300 year old Ron Parker.

What about Marcus Cooper? He’s probably available. Hell just fill them in with an XFL secondary.

If it’s that way man. Damien Wilson is better than Reggie Ragland. That’s not nothing.

BlackOp · 02-19-2020, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

They’re not expendable though.

You can’t roll out Phillip Gaines and 300 year old Ron Parker.

What about Marcus Cooper? He’s probably available. Hell just fill them in with an XFL secondary.

If it’s that way man. Damien Wilson is better than Reggie Ragland. That’s not nothing.

I just saw a mock where 3 of the top 10 picks were DL...3 QBs and 3 OT.

Where would Jones be drafted...knowing what we know now? Top 5...Chiefs need to keep him.

**Buehler445** · 02-19-2020, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackOp

I just saw a mock where 3 of the top 10 picks were DL...3 QBs and 3 OT.

Where would Jones be drafted...knowing what we know now? Top 5...Chiefs need to keep him.

Man I’d sure like to. I just don’t think it’s in the cards

58-4ever · 02-19-2020, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Brasky

Everyone keeps saying we MUST SIGN HIM without really laying out HOW we’re going to do that.

Jones has elite pass rush, but sub par run instincts. He isn’t elite in both aspects of his game.

Maaaan, I disagree... In fact, I've seen a few different ways that the HOW happens. We really don't know a ton before the new CBA happens. Most folks aren't thinking about that part.

**dirk digler** · 02-19-2020, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

Protecting Mahomes is priority #1. Period.

Here is how I see it:

Chris Jones - elite value as interior pass rusher.

Chiefs defense - uses stunts to create interior pass rush, so there is no guarantee Jones is even RUSHING from the interior.

if creating interior pass rush is the fastest way to success against the pass for defenses, then stopping that interior rush is the fastest way to success for the offense. FACT: If you keep Mahomes protected, he will succeed against every single defense.

The goal for this offseason is not to keep Chris Jones. It is to use Chris Jones to help the team win. If you cannot get good enough value in a trade and decide to sign him, so be it. But absolutely, positively, the best way to use Chris Jones is as a commodity to be traded.

With a simple first and third, you can land a starting CB and OL. With the cap space, you can land more speed on defense, depth at linebacker, and likely a swing OL.

That's not counting what you can do with your own first rounder this year. Filling ONE position with $20M is not how this team wins long term. Filling FOUR starting positions by letting go of one is how you keep your roster young, cheap, healthy, and talented.

Bye, Chris. Thank you for the super bowl, and thank you in advance for the draft capital and cap room.

The goal is to repeat and Jones cap hit won't be $20M this year. Clark's cap hit this past season was $6.5 so I would expect Jones's cap number to be fairly low the first 2 years then go up exponentially after that. But by that time the new CBA and TV deals will be done.

I can't believe people are so willingly to let home grown elite talent get away.

**Buehler445** · 02-19-2020, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

The goal is to repeat and Jones cap hit won't be $20M this year. Clark's cap hit this past season was $6.5 so I would expect Jones's cap number to be fairly low the first 2 years then go up exponentially after that. But by that time the new CBA and TV deals will be done.

I can't believe people are so willingly to let home grown elite talent get away.

I think a lot the groundwork was laid when Clark was signed. I just don't know how you can pay 2 dudes on a 4 dude DL at the top of the market.

Part of it is there remains a lot of apprehension (myself included) due to the whole Houston/Berry ****fests. My god those were bad contracts. The results of which we're still feeling.

Sofa King · 02-19-2020, 08:34 AM

What's the success rate of picks 15-32? I bet it isn't very high.

So all of you want to give up Chris Jones to take a shot or two in the dark, plus sign a couple mid-tier players that we didn't need this year anyways. Or resign Watkins who is barely completes a season anymore.

Would all of you be happy with what Seattle got for Frank Clark? Because this is what happens in the draft. You never know what you're going to get. It's easy to say "draft a tackle, CB and MLB and you fix 3 positions for the cost of 1!" Shit doesn't work out like that and you're likely to miss with most of the draft picks. Yeah, "trust Veach" is popular right now but all it takes is a couple misses for you all to shit on him.

Chiefs trade:
1st round pick (2019, 29th overall)
3rd round pick (2019, 92nd overall)
2nd round pick (2020)

Seahawks trade:
Defensive end Frank Clark
3rd round pick (2019, 84th overall)

Over the course of draft weekend, the unidentified pieces were unveiled. The Seahawks stayed in place and used the Chiefs extra first round pick on L.J. Collier. In the third round, the Chiefs stayed in place and grabbed small-school defensive lineman Khalen Saunders. A few picks later, the Seahawks traded the Chiefs former third round pick along with a fifth to move up and take Utah linebacker Cody Barton.

"All season long, Collier has struggled to get on the field despite being drafted to fill the very presence of the player they traded away in Frank Clark. So far, Collier has 2 tackles in 140 total snaps, playing sparingly over a total of 9 games. For some games, he’s been a healthy scratch."

"In fact, until a recent injury to Kendricks, Barton had scarcely earned any defensive snaps in an actual game. Through 11 games, he’d been a solid special teams contributor but only had 7 snaps to his name. He filled in for Kendricks in Week 12 and even started for him thereafter. He then moved to the middle to fill in for Bobby Wagner after he suffered an ankle injury in Week 14."

RunKC · 02-19-2020, 08:41 AM

If we are able to keep Jones and use our first pick on a quality corner like Gladney, Diggs, Johnson, etc? My god. That pass rush with Landlord, Thornhill, Fenton, Ward and a top Corner?

Damn that would be ideal.

Corner, IOL and another receiver with our first 3 picks, then use FA and a mid rd pick on some speed at LB.

Sofa King · 02-19-2020, 08:42 AM

Not many big contracts coming up in the near future. A couple next year, maybe. 2021 will free up a ton because we can move on from several high dollar players if we so choose.

2021 Free Agents

Sammy Watkins
Terrell Suggs
Cameron Erving
Patrick Mahomes
Daniel Sorensen
Damien Wilson
Damien Williams
Dustin Colquitt
Austin Reiter
Tanoh Kpassagnon
Anthony Lanier
Elijah McGuire
Devaroe Lawrence
Demone Harris
Gehrig Dieter
Chris Lammons
Darrel Williams
Ben Niemann
Charvarius Ward
Jackson Barton
Alex Brown
Ryan Hunter
Byron Pringle
Emmanuel Smith
Mike Weber
Alize Mack
Kyle Shurmur
Braxton Hoyett
Marcus Marshall
Nick Keizer
Jody Fortson

2022 Free Agents
Tyrann Mathieu
Eric Fisher
Mitchell Schwartz
Travis Kelce
Alex Okafor
Breeland Speaks
Derrick Nnadi
James Winchester
Martinas Rankin
Dorian O'Daniel
Armani Watts
Greg Senat
Darius Harris
Felton Davis
Tim Ward
John Lovett

wachashi · 02-19-2020, 08:43 AM

The Chiefs have to draft well, whether they keep Jones or not. The fact the Seahawks may have whiffed on Collier has no bearing whatsoever on the Chris Jones dilemma in KC. Championship teams draft well. That goes without saying.

wachashi · 02-19-2020, 08:57 AM

When five players account for 58 percent of the team's salary cap, there is virtually no room to account for injuries or under performance within that group. On top of that, the players you're able to put around that group of superstars are less coveted.

Injuries and player performance drop-offs are just too common in the NFL for me to want to create a top-heavy roster in which you're basically all-in on five players.

**Rausch** · 02-19-2020, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I think a lot the groundwork was laid when Clark was signed. I just don't know how you can pay 2 dudes on a 4 dude DL at the top of the market.

The 49'ers did it...

Sofa King · 02-19-2020, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wachashi

When five players account for 58 percent of the team's salary cap, there is virtually no room to account for injuries or under performance within that group. On top of that, the players you're able to put around that group of superstars are less coveted.

Injuries and player performance drop-offs are just too common in the NFL for me to want to create a top-heavy roster in which you're basically all-in on five players.

The only reason there aren't more teams like that is because most teams don't have 5 players worth those contracts.

wachashi · 02-19-2020, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofa King

The only reason there aren't more teams like that is because most teams don't have 5 players worth those contracts.

So the salary cap is a myth, right? This is the worst argument.

View Poll Results: What's your preference?
Chris Jones	94	54.34%
1st round draft pick + $20m of other players	74	42.77%
Some other option I will describe in the thread	3	1.73%
Polls are fun!	2	1.16%
Voters: 173. You may not vote on this poll

02-18-2020, 11:08 AM
DaFace Kind of a mod Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Donkey Land Casino cash: $-1863101	Jones vs. 1st Rounder + $20m Obviously this is going to be a key discussion this offseason. On The Athletic's podcast (Time's Ours), Nate Taylor said that he's heard that there are multiple teams out there who would give us a 1st round pick for Jones (assuming we tag and trade him), and possibly more than that. So just to lay out a simplified version of the options: Option 1: Chris Jones (probably around $20m per year) Option 2: 1st round draft pick (cheap for 4-5 years) $20m worth of other players For context on how much other players might cost based on recent free agents we've signed: Clark - $21m Mathieu - $14m Hitchens - $9m Schwartz - $8m Okafor - $6m So...which way do we go?
Posts: 53,153

02-19-2020, 08:34 AM	#143
Sofa King Bump it Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: South Dakota Casino cash: $-370000 VARSITY	What's the success rate of picks 15-32? I bet it isn't very high. So all of you want to give up Chris Jones to take a shot or two in the dark, plus sign a couple mid-tier players that we didn't need this year anyways. Or resign Watkins who is barely completes a season anymore. Would all of you be happy with what Seattle got for Frank Clark? Because this is what happens in the draft. You never know what you're going to get. It's easy to say "draft a tackle, CB and MLB and you fix 3 positions for the cost of 1!" Shit doesn't work out like that and you're likely to miss with most of the draft picks. Yeah, "trust Veach" is popular right now but all it takes is a couple misses for you all to shit on him. Chiefs trade: 1st round pick (2019, 29th overall) 3rd round pick (2019, 92nd overall) 2nd round pick (2020) Seahawks trade: Defensive end Frank Clark 3rd round pick (2019, 84th overall) Over the course of draft weekend, the unidentified pieces were unveiled. The Seahawks stayed in place and used the Chiefs extra first round pick on L.J. Collier. In the third round, the Chiefs stayed in place and grabbed small-school defensive lineman Khalen Saunders. A few picks later, the Seahawks traded the Chiefs former third round pick along with a fifth to move up and take Utah linebacker Cody Barton. "All season long, Collier has struggled to get on the field despite being drafted to fill the very presence of the player they traded away in Frank Clark. So far, Collier has 2 tackles in 140 total snaps, playing sparingly over a total of 9 games. For some games, he’s been a healthy scratch." "In fact, until a recent injury to Kendricks, Barton had scarcely earned any defensive snaps in an actual game. Through 11 games, he’d been a solid special teams contributor but only had 7 snaps to his name. He filled in for Kendricks in Week 12 and even started for him thereafter. He then moved to the middle to fill in for Bobby Wagner after he suffered an ankle injury in Week 14."
Posts: 23,465

02-19-2020, 08:41 AM	#144
RunKC Andy Reid Supporter Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $-1620389	If we are able to keep Jones and use our first pick on a quality corner like Gladney, Diggs, Johnson, etc? My god. That pass rush with Landlord, Thornhill, Fenton, Ward and a top Corner? Damn that would be ideal. Corner, IOL and another receiver with our first 3 picks, then use FA and a mid rd pick on some speed at LB. __________________ Mike Greenberg@Espngreeny I can’t fathom what it must be like to be a fan of the #Chiefs. Adopt a Chief: Jared Wiley
Posts: 52,210

02-19-2020, 08:42 AM	#145
Sofa King Bump it Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: South Dakota Casino cash: $-370000 VARSITY	Not many big contracts coming up in the near future. A couple next year, maybe. 2021 will free up a ton because we can move on from several high dollar players if we so choose. 2021 Free Agents Sammy Watkins Terrell Suggs Cameron Erving Patrick Mahomes Daniel Sorensen Damien Wilson Damien Williams Dustin Colquitt Austin Reiter Tanoh Kpassagnon Anthony Lanier Elijah McGuire Devaroe Lawrence Demone Harris Gehrig Dieter Chris Lammons Darrel Williams Ben Niemann Charvarius Ward Jackson Barton Alex Brown Ryan Hunter Byron Pringle Emmanuel Smith Mike Weber Alize Mack Kyle Shurmur Braxton Hoyett Marcus Marshall Nick Keizer Jody Fortson 2022 Free Agents Tyrann Mathieu Eric Fisher Mitchell Schwartz Travis Kelce Alex Okafor Breeland Speaks Derrick Nnadi James Winchester Martinas Rankin Dorian O'Daniel Armani Watts Greg Senat Darius Harris Felton Davis Tim Ward John Lovett
Posts: 23,465

02-19-2020, 08:43 AM	#146
wachashi Veteran Join Date: Jan 2019 Casino cash: $6310400	The Chiefs have to draft well, whether they keep Jones or not. The fact the Seahawks may have whiffed on Collier has no bearing whatsoever on the Chris Jones dilemma in KC. Championship teams draft well. That goes without saying.
Posts: 1,399

02-19-2020, 08:57 AM	#147
wachashi Veteran Join Date: Jan 2019 Casino cash: $6310400	When five players account for 58 percent of the team's salary cap, there is virtually no room to account for injuries or under performance within that group. On top of that, the players you're able to put around that group of superstars are less coveted. Injuries and player performance drop-offs are just too common in the NFL for me to want to create a top-heavy roster in which you're basically all-in on five players.
Posts: 1,399