The #1 reason CP should say YES to Al Saunders - (And the main reason he won't) - Page 11

B_Ambuehl · 12-26-2005, 10:53 AM

Forget about the fact that he's coordinated the top offense in the nfl the last 4 years. Forget the fact that he's obviously the best candidate available and already on the staff. Forget the fact that whether he stays or goes could decide whether hall of famers on the offensive line stay or go.

The real reason Saunders should be named head coach is right here. The real reason Saunders WON'T be named head coach is also right here as well.

This was from last summer and I bookmarked it for future reference.

Some of you may recall a guy from the coalition by the name of "former db" from training camp last year. He's a media guy and former football player from Pittsburgh who is also a die hard chiefs fan. He covered the Chiefs training camp last year and provided some really good interviews and info. Anyway, he had this to say about a conversation with Frank Ganz last summer:

http://www.chiefscoalition.com/Forum...=29295&hl=ganz

Quote:

Some of you already know I'm up here in Pittsburgh. Frank Gantz Sr. lives here too and we're very familiar with each other because he is, of course the former coach and he knows me from my job as a television reporter.

Now that thats out of the way, I spotted Gantz and his wife in a grocery store, Whole Foods (bunch of healthy stuff).
He was wearing Chiefs shorts, t-shirt and cap, he made me laugh.

Anyway here are some of the things he shared with me based on the conversations he has with Vermeil about three times a week.

NEW COACH:
Gantz believes Herman Edwards will get strong consideration as the next Chiefs head coach, for a couple of reasons. First, he says head coaches wear out their welcome very fast, even if they're winners. Most importantly, he says the Chiefs front office is enamored with Edwards. Al Saunders will be considered too HOWEVER... HOWEVER, Saunders and Carl Peterson are the two primary parities in regards to the political in-fighting within the organziation. Gantz says the Saunders doesn't back down to Peterson, gets in his face and will tell him his ideas are wrong. They don't share the same philosophy in regards to player evaluations either. I got the strong impression, and Gantz feels this too, that Saunders would be the person to knock Peterson's ego sideways. So Gantz wouldn't be surpirsed if Saunders is passed over as Vermeil's successor.

LARRY JOHNSON:
He says the Chiefs are very sorry Derrick Blaylock is gone. They say that Larry Johnson can't do nearly as many things as Blaylock. They must reconfigure a lot of packages minimize Johnson's short-comings. Gantz says Johson can run, but there's a lot more to the game than just running the rock.

BOOMER GRIGSBY:
May be a starter. Gantz and I had fun talking about the MLB position, as does everyone else. Vermeil told him that Boomer is awesome and that Vermeil isn't letting on to how well this guy REALLY is to the media. Apparently, Boomer is ALWAYS, ALWAYS in position to make the tackle and his technique is flawless. Here's the funny part of our conversation, Gantz asked me why did Grigsby last until the 5th round. I'm like, DUHHHHH!!! He laughed like hell. Gantz and I both think the battle at MLB is between Boomer and Scanlon. He really likes Kawitka Mitchell but it doesn't seem like he's the answer. Everybody is caught up with Boomer's mentality and core toughness to play the position. I informed Gantz of Boomer's gymnastics background and he was even further impressed with the kid.

KENDRELL BELL:
He's NOT healthy from what Vermeil shared with Gantz. Now I thought Bell came back to practice after straining his groin. Perhaps Vermeil is keeping his health undercover but Gantz' voice was noticably grim when talking about Bell's health.
I just hope he is 100 percent by training camp.

GANTZ:
We plan on bumping into each other at training camp because Vermeil asked him to address the team and Gantz is excited to do so. He and I both believe the Chiefs were brilliant in drafting the punter in the third round. Now, while we talked for about 20 minutes, his wife was smoothly filling the cart. She's a wonderful lady, very understanding of two football nuts talking Chiefs football at the deli counter.

htismaqe · 12-26-2005, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

Sort of, yes.

For instance, a new coach could look at bringing in a young QB right away, and he would get to learn under Green for a few years. I don't think Saunders would bring in true competition for the QB spot.

A new coach could look at the players that don't fit his defensive schemes, and start getting rid of some of them.

"Rebuild" isn't a dirty word. It's going to have to happen. But if we start early enough, we won't end up like the Titans, where it all hits at once because they put it off in favor of prolonging their "almost there" team.

Rebuild IS a dirty word in KC. I think most people would rather be 10-6 every year than do what it really takes to win it all...

jspchief · 12-26-2005, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieray

ha! like the rebuilding guarantees success?

Nope. It doesn't guarantee success.

The only things guaranteed is that these guys will continue to age, that aging will at some point affect their productivity, that they will get very expensive as they age, and that they will need to be replaced at some point due to any combination of the above factors.

We can start rebuilding the dam now, or we can wait until after the hurricane.

htismaqe · 12-26-2005, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieray

ha! like the rebuilding guarantees success?

The next regime will be just as scrutinized and thrown under the bus the first chance that presents itself.

You need to read IdahoJims article on this offense being "old".

Five points a game? You can't expect the same production in different seasons. It's still one of the NFL's best.

All the next regime has to do is WIN.

You act as if this current coaching staff (or the staff before it) doesn't DESERVE the criticism they get.

FringeNC · 12-26-2005, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Rebuild IS a dirty word in KC. I think most people would rather be 10-6 every year than do what it really takes to win it all...

So Indy is probably going to win it this year because they have recently rebuilt?

CP had the easiest job of any GM. All he had to do was put a top 20 D on the field, and he has failed. And you think we'd be better off letting him start from scratch?

htismaqe · 12-26-2005, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

What's this psycho babble about the team having a loser mentality? Does Trent Green Does LJ? Does Roaf? I think not.

Almost all of us agree that the problem is the D. I guess it all boils down to whether you consider DV/AS responsible for the putrid D because of the supposed soft ship they run or whatever. You do hold them responsible for the D; I don't. Nor do I give Tony Dungy credit for having a great offense in Indy. I think he has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Tony Dungy ABSOLUTELY gets credit for the offense in Indy. That offense (which ranked as high as 2nd in points under Mora) won exactly zero playoff games.

Dungy's attitude and approach to the game is infectious

There's more to football than X's and O's. Saying Dungy deserves no credit for what's happened to Indy's offense since he arrived is absolutely ludicrous. The only thin more stupid is suggesting that this horrible D is somehow NOT Vermeil's fault.

stevieray · 12-26-2005, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

All the next regime has to do is WIN.

You act as if this current coaching staff (or the staff before it) doesn't DESERVE the criticism they get.

Not at all.

We either are in for a complete shake up, or stick with current coaches.. I think the true rebuild starts after next season.

stevieray · 12-26-2005, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Rebuild IS a dirty word in KC. I think most people would rather be 10-6 every year than do what it really takes to win it all...

Ironic, I think of Cowher.

htismaqe · 12-26-2005, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

So Indy is probably going to win it this year because they have recently rebuilt?

CP had the easiest job of any GM. All he had to do was put a top 20 D on the field, and he has failed. And you think we'd be better off letting him start from scratch?

Everything is so black and white with you.

Indy put the pieces in place when they had back-to-back Top 5 draft picks. They only got those by REBUILDING. They had to go through some 3-win seasons to get those picks.

And then all they needed was the right coach to put it all together.

jspchief · 12-26-2005, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

So Indy is probably going to win it this year because they have recently rebuilt?

CP had the easiest job of any GM. All he had to do was put a top 20 D on the field, and he has failed. And you think we'd be better off letting him start from scratch?

Yes. They brought in Dungy and rebuilt the defense and tweaked the offense.

And what would you rather do? Hire Saunders who will constantly be at odds with CP? Every time Saunders wants a guy, Peterson will be the guy that has to approve it. You act like the fact that Saunders will disagree with Peterson will somehow make Peterson fold to him. CP's still going to be the guy calling the shots. I'd just as soon have him calling the shots for a coach that he actually believes in.

htismaqe · 12-26-2005, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieray

Ironic, I think of Cowher.

And he's won how many Super Bowls?

jspchief · 12-26-2005, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieray

Ironic, I think of Cowher.

You misspelled Marty.

stevieray · 12-26-2005, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

And he's won how many Super Bowls?

not my point, he's been consistant for years and can't get over the hump, yet he keeps his job.

milkman · 12-26-2005, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

You misspelled Marty.

No, he misspelled Clone.

FringeNC · 12-26-2005, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

Yes. They brought in Dungy and rebuilt the defense and tweaked the offense.

And what would you rather do? Hire Saunders who will constantly be at odds with CP? Every time Saunders wants a guy, Peterson will be the guy that has to approve it. You act like the fact that Saunders will disagree with Peterson will somehow make Peterson fold to him. CP's still going to be the guy calling the shots. I'd just as soon have him calling the shots for a coach that he actually believes in.

We have been constantly trying to rebuild our D to no avail.

Of course it's my opinion, but with DV or AS in charge, and a new DC, I think we are a playoff team. I just can't understand why you guys want to throw out the proverbial baby with the bathwater. Why not just clean house on the defensive side of the ball?

jspchief · 12-26-2005, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

We have been constantly trying to rebuild our D to no avail.

Of course it's my opinion, but with DV or AS in charge, and a new DC, I think we are a playoff team. I just can't understand why you guys want to throw out the proverbial baby with the bathwater. Why not just clean house on the defensive side of the ball?

Why does Dick Vermeil get a pass for this defense? He's the Head Coach. The boss. He is ultimately to blame for the entire team that steps on the field. He's had two shots at building this defense and has failed at both attempts.