Evaluate the Defense Game #1

[mikezpen]

You have a new defense, and we have a new offense. Granted, we pummeled Miami,and not the Patriots, but the Jags aren't Super Bowl material, either.

Will be interesting in 2 weeks.

[redfan]

Improved, still needs a lot of work. Tackling seemed better.
C-

[Halfcan]

The defense knocked out their starting QB with a big hit by Jones and Clark, didn't allow Fornette to go over 100 yards rushing and held the Jags to 13 points for most of the game until it was already over.

The Foles TD was basically perfect coverage by Fuller- pretty hard to defend that. Minshew was dumping the ball off on most every pass except a few lucky ones on a blown coverage. It was hot and the D was also playing together for the first meaningful game.

The Offense scored every time we had the ball until the clock ran out to end the game.

Not sure why people are treating this as a loss and the D still sucks?

[R Clark]

Originally Posted by Halfcan

The defense knocked out their starting QB with a big hit by Jones and Clark, didn't allow Fornette to go over 100 yards rushing and held the Jags to 13 points for most of the game until it was already over.

The Foles TD was basically perfect coverage by Fuller- pretty hard to defend that. Minshew was dumping the ball off on most every pass except a few lucky ones on a blown coverage. It was hot and the D was also playing together for the first meaningful game.

The Offense scored every time we had the ball until the clock ran out to end the game.

Not sure why people are treating this as a loss and the D still sucks?

Spot on, but yeah room for improvement

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Halfcan

The defense knocked out their starting QB with a big hit by Jones and Clark, didn't allow Fornette to go over 100 yards rushing and held the Jags to 13 points for most of the game until it was already over.

The Foles TD was basically perfect coverage by Fuller- pretty hard to defend that. Minshew was dumping the ball off on most every pass except a few lucky ones on a blown coverage. It was hot and the D was also playing together for the first meaningful game.

The Offense scored every time we had the ball until the clock ran out to end the game.

Not sure why people are treating this as a loss and the D still sucks?

The offense is the reason Fournette stayed under 100 yards; he averaged over 5 YPC but the Chiefs offense took him out of the gameplan.

And what good is knocking the starting QB out (on a deep TD he completed, no less) when you make a 6th round rookie come in and look like Tom Brady? "Lucky completions into blown coverage..." is sure a convenient way to handwaive the same thing that happened under Sutton game after game after game last season. Blown coverage counts, man. And it's absolutely worth criticizing. Especially if the guy has time to scan the field because - again - the pass rush was nowhere to be seen.

The defense played poorly on Sunday. You can point to the new scheme and all that - fine. You can give justifications for it. But to try to deny it didn't happen is silly. The pass rush went nowhere, a starting RB who's team tried to void his deal last season went for better than 5 YPC and a no-name QB with a handful of no-name WRs set about shredding our secondary. What about those statements is even debatable?

"The defense played poorly but here's why and here's why it will improve" - is a valid line of discussion and there's merit to that position. "The defense didn't play poorly" - isn't. The defense played poorly.

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The offense is the reason Fournette stayed under 100 yards; he averaged over 5 YPC but the Chiefs offense took him out of the gameplan.

And what good is knocking the starting QB out (on a deep TD he completed, no less) when you make a 6th round rookie come in and look like Tom Brady? "Lucky completions into blown coverage..." is sure a convenient way to handwaive the same thing that happened under Sutton game after game after game last season. Blown coverage counts, man. And it's absolutely worth criticizing. Especially if the guy has time to scan the field because - again - the pass rush was nowhere to be seen.

The defense played poorly on Sunday. You can point to the new scheme and all that - fine. You can give justifications for it. But to try to deny it didn't happen is silly. The pass rush went nowhere, a starting RB who's team tried to void his deal last season went for better than 5 YPC and a no-name QB with a handful of no-name WRs set about shredding our secondary. What about those statements is even debatable?

"The defense played poorly but here's why and here's why it will improve" - is a valid line of discussion and there's merit to that position. "The defense didn't play poorly" - isn't. The defense played poorly.

Fournette had a couple of late-game runs that padded his stats- he was pretty much a non-factor running with only 66 yards. Add in his receiving and he was still under 100 yards with a Huge fumble.

Jags were doing zip the first part of the game until that pass by Foles- which cost him the season. Fuller was right on his ass so I am not sure what else he could have done? This is the NFL- guys make plays.

As far as Minshew shredding us- most were dump-offs. Yes. the secondary had communication problems with 2 new safties out there that need to play much better. But most of those yards were in garbage time when Spags called off the dogs and was only rushing 4.

Now, how Mahomes dismantled the Jags "awesome" defense- that was a shredding. Chiefs D played much better than the Jags D and it was only the first game of the year- their first game together, on the road and it was hot as hell.

What more did you expect?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Halfcan

Fournette had a couple of late-game runs that padded his stats- he was pretty much a non-factor running with only 66 yards. Add in his receiving and he was still under 100 yards with a Huge fumble.

He was a non-factor because they had to stop running. How thin do we really need to parse this out? It's not like they were just out there in the 4th quarter handing him the ball for garbage time yards - when the game mattered he was still getting the ball and in so doing he managed more than 5 YPC. Most RBs 'pad their stats' by larger runs and it was hardly trash carries that got him those.

The fumble I acknowledged, BTW. Wilson was the best player on that defense yesterday and that was a MASSIVE play. It deserves credit and got credit but it was pretty much an individual effort that doesn't obviate criticism of the rest of the unit. Wilson's play was a big time bright spot, though. If he can continue to show out like that after looking good in the pre-season, that would be one of those under the radar finds that great teams often find (and almost always need).

Jags were doing zip the first part of the game until that pass by Foles- which cost him the season. Fuller was right on his ass so I am not sure what else he could have done? This is the NFL- guys make plays.

"Zip in the first part of the game..." - you mean their one drive? The Foles TD came on their second drive and finished a drive that had already moved them into FG range. I'd hardly say they had done zip. And yes, Fuller had good coverage there; never said he didn't. The problem was that Foles had that kind of time despite Clark being singled by a friggen TE. Yeah, Clark eventually got there - too late to prevent the TD. But hey, at least they got a hit on Foles and Jones injured him with a fall that any of use would've screamed bloody murder over had someone done it to Mahomes. THAT'S as close to a feather in their cap you can find - that time a borderline dirty hit injured the QB when our $20 million DE almost beat a tight end in time to prevent a touchdown...but didn't. Okay.

As far as Minshew shredding us- most were dump-offs. Yes. the secondary had communication problems with 2 new safties out there that need to play much better. But most of those yards were in garbage time when Spags called off the dogs and was only rushing 4.

"Dogs" -- there was a difference? And wasn't that the point of getting Clark and why people love Jones? The switch to the 4-3 and Clark acquisition wasn't so we could send Damien Wilson and Anthony Hitchens on blitzes - it was so we can get pressure with 4. Do you really think we're gonna be sending Darron Lee and safeties after the QB most games? They should've still been getting there. "Only rushing 4" is going to be how this defense operates most of the time. It isn't going to be blitz heavy, nor should it be.

Now, how Mahomes dismantled the Jags "awesome" defense- that was a shredding. Chiefs D played much better than the Jags D and it was only the first game of the year- their first game together, on the road and it was hot as hell.

You really wanna compare the respective offensive units? The Jags offense sucks horrifically. You cite holding Fournette under 100 as though the guy is Walter Payton - I reiterate, they were going to try to cut this guy as recently as last year. The WR corps is fringe average on a good day. Of course the Jags D got beat up worse than the Chiefs - their offense sucks and the Chiefs offense is historically great. Duh.

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by Halfcan

Fournette had a couple of late-game runs that padded his stats- he was pretty much a non-factor running with only 66 yards. Add in his receiving and he was still under 100 yards with a Huge fumble.

Jags were doing zip the first part of the game until that pass by Foles- which cost him the season. Fuller was right on his ass so I am not sure what else he could have done? This is the NFL- guys make plays.

As far as Minshew shredding us- most were dump-offs. Yes. the secondary had communication problems with 2 new safties out there that need to play much better. But most of those yards were in garbage time when Spags called off the dogs and was only rushing 4.

Now, how Mahomes dismantled the Jags "awesome" defense- that was a shredding. Chiefs D played much better than the Jags D and it was only the first game of the year- their first game together, on the road and it was hot as hell.

What more did you expect?

Ummm you can't just explain Fournette's decent game against us away by saying it was just some big runs at the end of the game. Here are all 13 of his attempts.

-1
2
5
12
3
3
6
1
14
6
2
10
3

So take out his 3 big carries which accounted for 36 of his 66 yards. So 10 carries for 30 yards.

Now compare that to McCoys game. His 10 carries looked like this.

13
2
4
2
3
31
5
0
2
19

So 63 of his 81 yards came on 3 carries. On his other 7 carries he had 18 yards.


But you can't take away the long carries, so I'd say they both had pretty good games.

What's everyone's obsession with trying to convince themselves and everyone that the pass rush and rush D was good?

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

Ummm you can't just explain Fournette's decent game against us away by saying it was just some big runs at the end of the game. Here are all 13 of his attempts.

-1
2
5
12
3
3
6
1
14
6
2
10
3

So take out his 3 big carries which accounted for 36 of his 66 yards. So 10 carries for 30 yards.

Now compare that to McCoys game. His 10 carries looked like this.

13
2
4
2
3
31
5
0
2
19

So 63 of his 81 yards came on 3 carries. On his other 7 carries he had 18 yards.


But you can't take away the long carries, so I'd say they both had pretty good games.

What's everyone's obsession with trying to convince themselves and everyone that the pass rush and rush D was good?

Leonard Fournette rushed 13 times for 66 yards and caught four of six targets for 28 yards as the Jaguars lost to the Chiefs in Week 1 action. He also had a soul-crushing fumble- the 1st in his NFL career.

So you say that is a good game?

[FAX]

Originally Posted by Halfcan

The defense knocked out their starting QB with a big hit by Jones and Clark, didn't allow Fornette to go over 100 yards rushing and held the Jags to 13 points for most of the game until it was already over.

The Foles TD was basically perfect coverage by Fuller- pretty hard to defend that. Minshew was dumping the ball off on most every pass except a few lucky ones on a blown coverage. It was hot and the D was also playing together for the first meaningful game.

The Offense scored every time we had the ball until the clock ran out to end the game.

Not sure why people are treating this as a loss and the D still sucks?

Speaking for myself, it's about expectations ... specifically from the premier acquisitions (Clark and Mathieu) and the rebuilt linebacker group playing against this specific team's offense.

This wasn't the Lambs or the Immigrant Blowjobbers. This was the Yaguars.

When I take into consideration the strength of their o-line and their skill players, I am very disappointed that they couldn't shut those guys down in humiliating fashion.

Mathieu had 2 tackles and 1 assist. Clark had 1 tackle total on the day. Other than Wilson and Hitch (5 tackles each), the linebacker group often looked confused and I don't think they had a single tackle between them.

Again, I haven't seen the All-22 and I don't know the calls, so what do I know? But based on the eye-test and the stats, I am far from impressed. It was the damn Yaguars with a barber-shop tenor at QB and there's no way (in my mind) that they should have been that effective.

FAX

[R Clark]

Originally Posted by FAX

Speaking for myself, it's about expectations ... specifically from the premier acquisitions (Clark and Mathieu) and the rebuilt linebacker group playing against this specific team's offense.

This wasn't the Lambs or the Immigrant Blowjobbers. This was the Yaguars.

When I take into consideration the strength of their o-line and their skill players, I am very disappointed that they couldn't shut those guys down in humiliating fashion.

Mathieu had 2 tackles and 1 assist. Clark had 1 tackle total on the day. Other than Wilson and Hitch (5 tackles each), the linebacker group often looked confused and I don't think they had a single tackle between them.

Again, I haven't seen the All-22 and I don't know the calls, so what do I know? But based on the eye-test and the stats, I am far from impressed. It was the damn Yaguars with a barber-shop tenor at QB and there's no way (in my mind) that they should have been that effective.

FAX

I must be reerun cause I sure thought Wilson , hitchens was linebackers? Had I been right about that by your calculations the linebackers would have had at least 10 tackles . In a 4-3 isn’t three linebackers on the field?

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by R Clark

I must be reerun cause I sure thought Wilson , hitchens was linebackers? Had I been right about that by your calculations the linebackers would have had at least 10 tackles . In a 4-3 isn’t three linebackers on the field?

They didn't play much base, Hitchens played 100% of the snaps, Wilson was at like 85 and Darron Lee played like 10 plays as the 3rd LB.

[R Clark]

Originally Posted by Mecca

They didn't play much base, Hitchens played 100% of the snaps, Wilson was at like 85 and Darron Lee played like 10 plays as the 3rd LB.

So how would you rate the lb play?

[FAX]

Originally Posted by R Clark

I must be reerun cause I sure thought Wilson , hitchens was linebackers? Had I been right about that by your calculations the linebackers would have had at least 10 tackles . In a 4-3 isn’t three linebackers on the field?

You might be, but I doubt it, Mr. R. Clark. I stated that in a confusing manner. What I attempted to say was that "other than" Hitch and Wilson, the linebackers didn't stat a solo tackle (Lee had an assist).

Digging a little deeper, the linebacker stats seem better than I originally thought (again, I still haven't seen the All-22).

Lee had something like 8 or 10 snaps (depending on which source you use ... some places have us playing 58 defensive snaps others have us at 51 ... probably due to eliminating penalty snaps ... and I didn't take the time to count them myself). Either way, Hitch is listed as the only linebacker to play 100% of the snaps. Wilson had about 80%.

As for the way they used the linebackers in the scheme, it wasn't a base 4-3 from the get-go. They mixed it up a bit. It appeared that they entered the game in a "nickle" (or something similar) with 3 corners, 2 safeties, 2 linebackers, and 4 down linemen.

FAX

[BryanBusby]

It was mother****ing hot and both Defenses looked like shit. Wouldn't snap take this Week 1 game too hard.