The #1 reason CP should say YES to Al Saunders - (And the main reason he won't)

[B_Ambuehl]

Forget about the fact that he's coordinated the top offense in the nfl the last 4 years. Forget the fact that he's obviously the best candidate available and already on the staff. Forget the fact that whether he stays or goes could decide whether hall of famers on the offensive line stay or go.

The real reason Saunders should be named head coach is right here. The real reason Saunders WON'T be named head coach is also right here as well.

This was from last summer and I bookmarked it for future reference.

Some of you may recall a guy from the coalition by the name of "former db" from training camp last year. He's a media guy and former football player from Pittsburgh who is also a die hard chiefs fan. He covered the Chiefs training camp last year and provided some really good interviews and info. Anyway, he had this to say about a conversation with Frank Ganz last summer:

http://www.chiefscoalition.com/Forum...=29295&hl=ganz

Some of you already know I'm up here in Pittsburgh. Frank Gantz Sr. lives here too and we're very familiar with each other because he is, of course the former coach and he knows me from my job as a television reporter.

Now that thats out of the way, I spotted Gantz and his wife in a grocery store, Whole Foods (bunch of healthy stuff).
He was wearing Chiefs shorts, t-shirt and cap, he made me laugh.

Anyway here are some of the things he shared with me based on the conversations he has with Vermeil about three times a week.

NEW COACH:
Gantz believes Herman Edwards will get strong consideration as the next Chiefs head coach, for a couple of reasons. First, he says head coaches wear out their welcome very fast, even if they're winners. Most importantly, he says the Chiefs front office is enamored with Edwards. Al Saunders will be considered too HOWEVER... HOWEVER, Saunders and Carl Peterson are the two primary parities in regards to the political in-fighting within the organziation. Gantz says the Saunders doesn't back down to Peterson, gets in his face and will tell him his ideas are wrong. They don't share the same philosophy in regards to player evaluations either. I got the strong impression, and Gantz feels this too, that Saunders would be the person to knock Peterson's ego sideways. So Gantz wouldn't be surpirsed if Saunders is passed over as Vermeil's successor.

LARRY JOHNSON:
He says the Chiefs are very sorry Derrick Blaylock is gone. They say that Larry Johnson can't do nearly as many things as Blaylock. They must reconfigure a lot of packages minimize Johnson's short-comings. Gantz says Johson can run, but there's a lot more to the game than just running the rock.

BOOMER GRIGSBY:
May be a starter. Gantz and I had fun talking about the MLB position, as does everyone else. Vermeil told him that Boomer is awesome and that Vermeil isn't letting on to how well this guy REALLY is to the media. Apparently, Boomer is ALWAYS, ALWAYS in position to make the tackle and his technique is flawless. Here's the funny part of our conversation, Gantz asked me why did Grigsby last until the 5th round. I'm like, DUHHHHH!!! He laughed like hell. Gantz and I both think the battle at MLB is between Boomer and Scanlon. He really likes Kawitka Mitchell but it doesn't seem like he's the answer. Everybody is caught up with Boomer's mentality and core toughness to play the position. I informed Gantz of Boomer's gymnastics background and he was even further impressed with the kid.

KENDRELL BELL:
He's NOT healthy from what Vermeil shared with Gantz. Now I thought Bell came back to practice after straining his groin. Perhaps Vermeil is keeping his health undercover but Gantz' voice was noticably grim when talking about Bell's health.
I just hope he is 100 percent by training camp.

GANTZ:
We plan on bumping into each other at training camp because Vermeil asked him to address the team and Gantz is excited to do so. He and I both believe the Chiefs were brilliant in drafting the punter in the third round. Now, while we talked for about 20 minutes, his wife was smoothly filling the cart. She's a wonderful lady, very understanding of two football nuts talking Chiefs football at the deli counter.

[FringeNC]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Everything is so black and white with you.

Indy put the pieces in place when they had back-to-back Top 5 draft picks. They only got those by REBUILDING. They had to go through some 3-win seasons to get those picks.

And then all they needed was the right coach to put it all together.

When's the last time Indy had a 3 win season? It's not that had to build a respectable D.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by FringeNC

We have been constantly trying to rebuild our D to no avail.

Of course it's my opinion, but with DV or AS in charge, and a new DC, I think we are a playoff team. I just can't understand why you guys want to throw out the proverbial baby with the bathwater. Why not just clean house on the defensive side of the ball?

You act as if Vermeil has had one and only one defensive coordinator since he arrived.

We've had Robinson and Cunningham, two DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED defensive philosophy, and yet the results are the same.

This team is soft. They lack effort. They lack urgency.

They act EXACTLY like a team that's been treated with kid gloves at every turn. A group of players that's never been told that they'll lose they're job if they don't perform...

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by FringeNC

When's the last time Indy had a 3 win season? It's not that had to build a respectable D.

Football has both offense and defense.

Indy would have never had the offense that Dungy had nothing to do with if they hadn't won 6 games combined in 97 and 98. Those two seasons netted Manning and James.

Because we built our offense with older players, through free agency, we don't have the same ability to do with our defense what Indy did with theirs.

[Traveller]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

How many coordinators have success as head coach of the SAME team they were coordinator of? There's got to be some reason it's so rare.

Just because nobody has mentioned him, Parcells was the DC of the Giants before taking over as Head Coach.

Pretty awesome example, but rare as mentioned by htismaqe.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by FringeNC

When's the last time Indy had a 3 win season? It's not that had to build a respectable D.

1998

What is the nucleus of that team? Manning and James came from 3 win seasons.

That was a long time ago, but that's exactly the point. They built the young offense, and then added the defense to complete the puzzle.

We already missed our chance to complete the puzzle with this offense. Now we have a young defense to build on for a foundation. We can start adding offensive pieces to the puzzle and could have another contender in a few years.

[FringeNC]

Originally Posted by jspchief

Why does Dick Vermeil get a pass for this defense? He's the Head Coach. The boss. He is ultimately to blame for the entire team that steps on the field. He's had two shots at building this defense and has failed at both attempts.

One shot. Gun was not his move. How many head coaches were former OCs or DCs? Quite a few. How much impact does Tony Dungy have on the offense? How involved is Andy Reid in the D? How many DCs have Holmgren and Shanahan been through? I don't think it is a stretch to say in today's NFL that the head coach is a specialist in either O or D, and relies on a coordinator for the other side of the ball.

Vermeil should have fired Robinson after 2002. That was a mistake. I don't fault him for hiring Robinson. He had a good run at Denver. CP is completely responsible for the Gunther debacle.

We have one piece of the puzzle in place -- perhaps the best OC in the business.....You win in this league through coaching, given the salary cap constraints. I say it's a lot easier to find one good coordinator than two.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by FringeNC

One shot. Gun was not his move. How many head coaches were former OCs or DCs? Quite a few. How much impact does Tony Dungy have on the offense? How involved is Andy Reid in the D? How many DCs have Holmgren and Shanahan been through? I don't think it is a stretch to say in today's NFL that the head coach is a specialist in either O or D, and relies on a coordinator for the other side of the ball.

Vermeil should have fired Robinson after 2002. That was a mistake. I don't fault him for hiring Robinson. He had a good run at Denver. CP is completely responsible for the Gunther debacle.

We have one piece of the puzzle in place -- perhaps the best OC in the business.....You win in this league through coaching, given the salary cap constraints. I say it's a lot easier to find one good coordinator than two.

Whether Vermeil chose Cunningham or not, he still chose to coach the team that Gun was the D-coord of.

Whether Vermeil's mistake was choosing the wrong guy in Robinson, or allowing someone else to choose the wrong guy in Cunningham, he's still to blame. He had the choice to refuse Peterson's choice of Gun. By sitting back and allowing Peterson to make the choice, he essentially agreed to it.

It doesn't matter if it was his doing, or if it happened because he allowed Peterson to dictate which coaches he would have.

Besides, who chose the position coaches on our defense?

[FringeNC]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

You act as if Vermeil has had one and only one defensive coordinator since he arrived.

We've had Robinson and Cunningham, two DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED defensive philosophy, and yet the results are the same.

This team is soft. They lack effort. They lack urgency.

They act EXACTLY like a team that's been treated with kid gloves at every turn. A group of players that's never been told that they'll lose they're job if they don't perform...

The same could have been said about Indy before this year. That their D sucked because Dungy was soft or whatever. They have been quite similar to us these last few years...just not QUITE as bad on D, but almost.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Traveller

Just because nobody has mentioned him, Parcells was the DC of the Giants before taking over as Head Coach.

Pretty awesome example, but rare as mentioned by htismaqe.

You could also make a case for Mike Martz. He's had 3 playoff teams in his six years as Rams HC, including one team that made it to the SB. They could've/should've/would've won that game, they were the easy favorites against a young Pats team.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by SNR

You could also make a case for Mike Martz. He's had 3 playoff teams in his six years as Rams HC, including one team that made it to the SB. They could've/should've/would've won that game, they were the easy favorites against a young Pats team.

Mike Martz is Barry Switzer. He took over a Superbowl team, and was able to not fuck it up too much right away.

He didn't take over a team and make it better. He just rode the gravy train that Vermeil built him.

We don't need someone like that. We need someone that actually makes the team better.

[FringeNC]

Maybe Herm will bring this fantastic OC with him.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by jspchief

Mike Martz is Barry Switzer. He took over a Superbowl team, and was able to not fuck it up too much right away.

He didn't take over a team and make it better. He just rode the gravy train that Vermeil built him.

We don't need someone like that. We need someone that actually makes the team better.

Not necessarily.

1999- Vermeil wins Super Bowl

Early 2000- Martz is hired

Beginning of 2000 season- Rams are winning using offense, defense blows. Defense implodes against Chiefs. Messy mid-season change of coordinators

2001 season- Massive FA upgrade

2001 playoffs- Superbowl loss

Vermeil's leftover champs were 7-9 the very next season. The new and improved Rams were under Martz.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by FringeNC

Maybe Herm will bring this fantastic OC with him.

Ironic that you blame Herm for his Coordinators in the same thread that you excuse Vermeil for his.

[FringeNC]

Originally Posted by jspchief

Ironic that you blame Herm for his Coordinators in the same thread that you excuse Vermeil for his.

If Herm had the #1 D in the league, and Heimerdinger was forced down Herm's throat, we might have similar situations.

Anyway, my point was nothing related to Herm in the first place. The point was obvious, yet misunderstood by you: that we should be thankful as hell for having Saunders. Shake your head to that all you want.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by tk13

I don't think he's overrated. He's been a successful coach everywhere he's ever been.

Just look at our offense and what it was built out of. We took a veteran QB who'd been a starter just once a few years back for 15 games that was coming off a serious knee injury. We took a veteran RB who'd been a starter just once and wasn't highly thought of. We got a steal for a LT in Roaf that everybody thought was washed up. We have a pro-bowl left guard that was a converted fullback. We took Olin Kreutz' backup center in Chicago, and turned him into one of the best centers in football. We have a converted guard at RT. We took a washed up #1 pick that had been dumped by 4 or 5 teams and turned him into a 1000 yard reciever. We have a 4th round pick in his 2nd year at the other receiver. We took a converted RB and turned him into a decent #3 WR and one of the best return men in the game.

I don't think people even appreciate how amazing it is that we built this offense, especially in such an unconventional way. For Al to help turn these guys into maybe the best offense of the last 5 years is really quite amazing. The only team that can compete with us is the Colts, and they have #1 picks all over the field. We actually did it through player evaluation and development. I think it's pretty impressive.

Rep. Great observation.