*****The Josh Simmons Thread*****

[Dante84]

More to come!

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— Patrick Mahomes II (@PatrickMahomes) April 25, 2025

Several teams agree: Josh Simmons had best tape of any OT last year. And they aren't very concerned with recovery on the torn patella tendon. More of the concern is maturity/character. But he's going to the ideal, veteran-laden place.

— Jeremy Fowler (@JFowlerESPN) April 25, 2025

the #chiefs get LT Josh Simmons out of Ohio State. If Simmons didn't suffer a torn patellar tendon he would have been the first tackle off the board. I had one team tell me he was the most athletic and talented tackle tape they watched. There are some maturity issues, but this…

— James Palmer (@JamesPalmerTV) April 25, 2025

The #Chiefs have selected #OSU OT Josh Simmons at No. 32, a player recovering nicely from a torn patellar tendon. They are comfortable with his rehab and did endless homework on it. https://t.co/awdb0JhPed

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) April 25, 2025

The #Chiefs are selecting Ohio State LT Josh Simmons at No. 32 to close out Round 1.

A key addition to bolster the offensive line in front of Patrick Mahomes. pic.twitter.com/oBx2CjzmCe

— Ari Meirov (@MySportsUpdate) April 25, 2025

[Delano]

Who’s going to be the guy to follow this timeline:

1. Stake your reputation on the idea Simmons’ knee will make him nonviable as a starter. Post endless comments and drafturbate over any opposing opinion.
2. Consider suicide on draft night because Veach doesn’t subscribe to DraftPlanet hivemind.
3. Ease off the mad posts because actual expert consensus comes out that this is a good move.
4. Wholeheartedly support Simmons and Veach.
5. Start over at step one when routine adversity hits.

[Kiimo]

The consensus on here is Josh Simmons was absolutely worth it if healthy. The question is if the injury was worth the risk. Now we're locked in so we're all hoping but it is way too early to be taking some kind of victory lap that people will change their tune.

Especially since the jury is still way way out if he's going to not only recover but be as good. What's the point at saying that now, though? Now, we're all going to be optimistic.

Veach is a god but not infallable I mean look at Kingsley only last year. The draft is hit or miss.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by SAGA45

This is both true and false. While you're essentially right that it's ultimately about how Simmons' body responds, saying Burkholder's opinion means nothing is absolutely wrong.

Burkholder's opinion isn't just his own, it's the summation of a joint assessment by himself and the team physicians - the people who are collectively responsible for maximizing Simmons' recovery/performance going forward.

The strength/conditioning coaches fall under that umbrella as well, per Burkholder's capacity as the team's VP of Sports Medicine and Performance. They, along with the team physicians and athletic training staff, report to Burkholder.

So his opinion, which is the result of a collaborative effort by his team, absolutely means something thus why Veach and Reid often defer to him when it comes to player injuries and prognosis. They're really deferring to all the departments within Burkholder's administrative scope.

I'd bet that you're at least correct in that there is a collective assessment. As for the teams' physicians reporting to Burkholder, they are independent contractors, so it's dependent upon him asking them to provide medical information/opinions. They aren't subordinates.

[Coochie liquor]

Originally Posted by Kiimo

I'm a knee injury truther.

But you know who else was? Burkholder. He immediately said no thanks when he heard about the injury, too. So like, it's not some invented, fantastical thing to be worried about. The odds were against it working out.

And I'm going to be watching Luther Burden for his entire career.

He's hurt now too though

Did Burkholder sign off on DJ Humphries?

[kcbubb]

Good. I’m glad to hear that. I think a few here are ready to say I told you so with Simmons…..

Originally Posted by RealSNR

I don't know about saving face, but for me I gave myself two days to get all my bitching done, and now I'm in the position of just wanting Simmons to be successful for us.

And guess what? He might face some initial struggles when he does get on the field. He might have a bad game against an elite guy. The coaches might elect to start Moore over him for whatever reason. And there are going to be idiot morons out there whispering that Simmons was a bust all along, just as they do with any Chiefs draft pick who needs some time to get better or raise his snap count.

I'm going to push back against those assholes. A franchise LT takes time to produce. You never draft a guy and see him hit the ground running, knee injury or not. I really hope people get that through their thick skulls.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by Coochie liquor

Did Burkholder sign off on DJ Humphries?

This is the second time you've posted this dumb ass shit.

Again, Humphries suffered an entirely new injury (hamstring) after being rushed onto the field due to Wanya Morris being a dumpster fire.

Burkholder signing off on Humphrie's ACL recovery had absolutely nothing to do with what happened. Stop being obtuse.

[RedinTexas]

Originally Posted by Delano

Who’s going to be the guy to follow this timeline:

1. Stake your reputation on the idea Simmons’ knee will make him nonviable as a starter. Post endless comments and drafturbate over any opposing opinion.
2. Consider suicide on draft night because Veach doesn’t subscribe to DraftPlanet hivemind.
3. Ease off the mad posts because actual expert consensus comes out that this is a good move.
4. Wholeheartedly support Simmons and Veach.
5. Start over at step one when routine adversity hits.

Can we do this as a tag team? I'll do #4.

[SAGA45]

Originally Posted by Delano

Who’s going to be the guy to follow this timeline:

1. Stake your reputation on the idea Simmons’ knee will make him nonviable as a starter. Post endless comments and drafturbate over any opposing opinion.
2. Consider suicide on draft night because Veach doesn’t subscribe to DraftPlanet hivemind.
3. Ease off the mad posts because actual expert consensus comes out that this is a good move.
4. Wholeheartedly support Simmons and Veach.
5. Start over at step one when routine adversity hits.

There's a handful of strong candidates for this. I think their beef with the Simmons pick is some combo of:
1. His knee
2. They had their hearts set on another player or a cluster of players.
3 They were certain they knew what the Chiefs would do and were proven wrong.

When one's ego and self worth are partially (or entirely in the most extreme cases) hitched to how they're viewed on a message board, being "right" is valued more than anything else. I'm all but certain some folks, in their core, want to be proven right about Simmons falling more than they want him to succeed. But they will never admit it.

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by SAGA45

When one's ego and self worth are partially (or entirely in the most extreme cases) hitched to how they're viewed on a message board,

Yeah, that behavior has been a bit odd.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by SAGA45

There's a handful of strong candidates for this. I think their beef with the Simmons pick is some combo of:
1. His knee
2. They had their hearts set on another player or a cluster of players.
3 They were certain they knew what the Chiefs would do and were proven wrong.

When one's ego and self worth are partially (or entirely in the most extreme cases) hitched to how they're viewed on a message board, being "right" is valued more than anything else. I'm all but certain some folks, in their core, want to be proven right about Simmons falling more than they want him to succeed. But they will never admit it.

I know DJ and Duncan were just pointing out that no player had ever recovered to their "normal". That's just historical fact, correct?

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by SAGA45

There's a handful of strong candidates for this. I think their beef with the Simmons pick is some combo of:
1. His knee
2. They had their hearts set on another player or a cluster of players.
3 They were certain they knew what the Chiefs would do and were proven wrong.

When one's ego and self worth are partially (or entirely in the most extreme cases) hitched to how they're viewed on a message board, being "right" is valued more than anything else. I'm all but certain some folks, in their core, want to be proven right about Simmons falling more than they want him to succeed. But they will never admit it.

Your certainty is certainly misplaced when it comes to me. And I know DJ and crow well enough to know it is misplaced when it comes to them as well.

So I don't know who you're referring to on this one, but it sure seems like a strawman you've invented.

1. The historical precedent of this injury is awful. Awful awful, worse than a torn Achilles. It is literally the worst injury a football player can sustain, historically.
2. I didn't have my hear set on a single player at 31. I liked Conerly but he didn't make it. I think Burden would have been a nice value pick at that spot, and that's who I would have taken. There were a cluster of players I liked there, too. JT Tuimolau. Nic Scourton. TJ Sanders.
3. I didn't see anybody saying with certainty what the Chiefs would do. Nobody is conceited enough to think they know that.

And everyone I've seen has been vocal in expressing the same sentiment I have multiple times and am about to express again:
"Not what I would have done, I'm nervous about it, but I'll hope it works out." in some variation.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Delano

Who’s going to be the guy to follow this timeline:

1. Stake your reputation on the idea Simmons’ knee will make him nonviable as a starter. Post endless comments and drafturbate over any opposing opinion.
2. Consider suicide on draft night because Veach doesn’t subscribe to DraftPlanet hivemind.
3. Ease off the mad posts because actual expert consensus comes out that this is a good move.
4. Wholeheartedly support Simmons and Veach.
5. Start over at step one when routine adversity hits.

No one. No one is going to be that guy. Stop.

This is a ridiculous strawman, dude.

I will say, though, that when it comes to "expert consensus" ... I give zero ****s whether it likes or dislikes a move, because "expert consensus" is bullshit.

You've got one thing right, in #4 - the idea of supporting Veach and hoping Simmons is good. That's a really exciting potential outcome, and it's what is best for my team. I am living in a place of hope.

If we get two years down the road and Simmons has never shown signs of recovering, the most that happens is someone says "Yeah, this is why I was out on the pick from the day the idea was floated. Recovery from that injury sucks."

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I know DJ and Duncan were just pointing out that no player had ever recovered to their "normal". That's just historical fact, correct?

Someone brought up Ryan Clady last week or the week before. That was the most encouraging example I've seen posted.

Maybe the Chiefs are getting lucky here and Simmons is the next Clady when it comes to recovery. That would be neat-o.

And now I'm gonna stop. That's three posts in a row!

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I know DJ and Duncan were just pointing out that no player had ever recovered to their "normal". That's just historical fact, correct?

I also didn't see the "elite prospect if healthy" angle.

I saw a guy who came into the season as a late 2nd, early 3rd round ranked prospect, who then beat the piss out of overmatched opponents during a non-con slate and then people extrapolated that to the conference slate that he never actually played.

Everything was on a sliding scale. For instance, with Jeffrey Simmons and Jameson Williams, I saw guys who I thought were elite prospects who got hurt and were thus still worth a gamble given the potential upside.

In Josh Simmons I just don't know. I can't make that conclusion and I don't think those that were gung-ho about him could either (they were just parroting the Draft Twitter Echo Chamber). Because again, the tape just wasn't there. It was neither bad nor good -- it simply didn't exist. He didn't PLAY against the best competition on their schedule and Ohio State didn't actually suffer for his absence.

So it was impossible for me to conclude he was an elite talent. We saw enough against lower tier competition that he was worthwhile with that pick when healthy. But we just didn't SEE him dominate top tier competition at any point. it required a lot of projection.

So when you're both projecting on talent AND on health...that's a lot.

But as I said in the draft forum, when everything was done and we still got a guy like Royals late and still managed to address the DL well, the 'risk' side of the equation went way down because the opportunity cost fell quite a bit.

This idea that anyone is 'vested' in the failure of Simmons is silly. I have like 20 years of posting here -- I've been WAY more wrong on guys that I'm gonna be either way on Simmons (unless Simmons goes on to have a HoF career like Jones had). And I've been way more right on guys than I'll be on Simmons, both good (Rice) and bad (Skyy Moore and Breeland Speaks).

I don't care if one guy is good or bad either way. I just don't see the point in having a conversation on a guy and then immediately pivoting on him when he becomes a Chief. My concerns didn't change.

So now we'll see how it goes.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

No one. No one is going to be that guy. Stop.

This is a ridiculous strawman, dude.

I will say, though, that when it comes to "expert consensus" ... I give zero ****s whether it likes or dislikes a move, because "expert consensus" is bullshit.

You've got one thing right, in #4 - the idea of supporting Veach and hoping Simmons is good. That's a really exciting potential outcome, and it's what is best for my team. I am living in a place of hope.

If we get two years down the road and Simmons has never shown signs of recovering, the most that happens is someone says "Yeah, this is why I was out on the pick from the day the idea was floated. Recovery from that injury sucks."

"Expert Consensus" had Mahomes wrong. FFS it got McDuffie wrong and that just seemed like such a no-brainer pick (because "Spags likes big CBs..."

The Expert Consensus is worthless. Always has been. It's never come into my thinking and shouldn't have much bearing on anyone else's.

But alas, it will. The "Steve Smith said Skyy Moore is the best WR in the draft" crowd will continue to act like these guys have put a fraction of the time/thought into the Chiefs that many on this board have.

And they'll remain incorrect.