Expectations and Alex Smith

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Well, Luck was talent that was worthy of being selected 1/1, so this is...

You are missing the point, Luck was a rookie regardless if he his naturally talented as a QB. A Vet should 'always' initially be making more plays and better decisions in the get go and why can't Geno do the same as Luck is keg's point.

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

The Colts made the playoffs last year after a 2-14 season in 2011. Improved by 9 wins. Should we expect less from seasoned vet Alex Smith than we saw from rookie Andrew Luck?

SPANK !!!!!

[Mav]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

The Colts made the playoffs last year after a 2-14 season in 2011. Improved by 9 wins. Should we expect less from seasoned vet Alex Smith than we saw from rookie Andrew Luck?

nope. You absolutely shouldnt. Dont also forget that the Colts, did a scheme change on defense, the only real veteran they had on offense was reggie wayne, everyone else was young......

I agree, the expectations should be playoffs, i believe that dorsey reid, and alex smith would tell you that is their expectations as well.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by splatbass

Of course there is. It is just not reasonable to expect the playoffs the year after 2-14 - especially with almost all the same players.

Teams that add a quality quarterback turn things around almost immediately.

Dalton
Wilson
Ryan
Rothlisberger
Brady
RG3
Luck
Flacco

I could go on....

Shit, shouldn't going from Romeo to Reid give us 2-3 wins?

We just dropped a ****ton of cash in free agency...that should get us a win or 2, right?

Adding a 29 year old "franchise quarterback" (which is consistent with the compensation that was given up) to this equation makes anything less than a playoff birth a complete and total failure.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Teams that add a quality quarterback turn things around almost immediately.

Dalton
Wilson
Ryan
Rothlisberger
Brady
RG3
Luck
Flacco

I could go on....

Shit, shouldn't going from Romeo to Reid give us 2-3 wins?

We just dropped a ****ton of cash in free agency...that should get us a win or 2, right?

Adding a 29 year old "franchise quarterback" (which is consistent with the compensation that was given up) to this equation makes anything less than a playoff birth a complete and total failure.

The Chiefs are in the same division as the Peyton Manning-led team that just earned home field advantage this past season and you're going to call it a complete and total failure if a 2-14 team doesn't make the playoffs? I think playoffs is a reasonable goal for this team, but falling just short should be characterized as a disappointment, not a complete and total failure. Going 2-14 again would be a complete and total failure.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by patteeu

The Chiefs are in the same division as the Peyton Manning-led team that just earned home field advantage this past season and you're going to call it a complete and total failure if a 2-14 team doesn't make the playoffs? I think playoffs is a reasonable goal for this team, but falling just short should be characterized as a disappointment, not a complete and total failure. Going 2-14 again would be a complete and total failure.

If we traded the exact same compensation for one of the following quarterbacks, wouldn't a playoff birth be EXPECTED?

Matt Ryan
Tom Brady
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Joe Flacco
Ben Rothlisberger
Drew Brees
Colin Kaepernick
RG3
Luck
Russel Wilson
Andy Dalton
Aaron Rodgers
Phillip Rivers

[Jonny Thunder]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Trading for Alex Smith is a 'win now' move, and they're having minimal turnover on the roster (looks like Dorsey and Albert may be the only quality starters they lose). That tells us that this is not at all a rebuild situation like 2001 or 2009, that they believe in the players on this roster and that they believe a change in coaching will make the difference. There's no reason to give a year leeway to this group.

I think this is a right now plan and team. I expect Alex to do far better than the beer can cynics on this forum. And as someone has already commented, I think he will elevate the play of others. I guarantee he will be news when practice begins for that very thing. That's one of his strengths.

It's what I believe.

[Ming the Merciless]

Originally Posted by Jonny Thunder

bear can cynics on this forum.
It's what I believe.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Trading for Alex Smith is a 'win now' move, and they're having minimal turnover on the roster (looks like Dorsey and Albert may be the only quality starters they lose). That tells us that this is not at all a rebuild situation like 2001 or 2009, that they believe in the players on this roster and that they believe a change in coaching will make the difference. There's no reason to give a year leeway to this group.

2001 was not a rebuilding year in the vein of 2009. It was a lot closer to what it looks like this year is shaping up to be. And with a new system being installed, it took Trent Green (who already knew the system) a year to get things going. I think it's reasonable to hope for the best in year 1 with Alex Smith but judge him on the results of year 2.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

Originally Posted by patteeu

2001 was not a rebuilding year in the vein of 2009. It was a lot closer to what it looks like this year is shaping up to be. And with a new system being installed, it took Trent Green (who already knew the system) a year to get things going. I think it's reasonable to hope for the best in year 1 with Alex Smith but judge him on the results of year 2.

You kinda get what you pay for. Green cost the #12 with a 5th round kick back. Cassel is about what you get for a second. Smith should be better, but not by much.

Edit:My bad #12

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by patteeu

2001 was not a rebuilding year in the vein of 2009. It was a lot closer to what it looks like this year is shaping up to be. And with a new system being installed, it took Trent Green (who already knew the system) a year to get things going. I think it's reasonable to hope for the best in year 1 with Alex Smith but judge him on the results of year 2.

You can argue whether or not 2001 was was a rebuilding year or not, but that year does not equate with this year in any way, shape or form. Trent Green's only receiver was Tony Gonzalez (Derrick Alexander was trash, Eddie Kennison didn't arrive until the latter half of the season, Snoop Minnis, Larry Parker and Chris Thomas were the other guys), and as far as we knew that offseason we were going to be a RBbC (nobody expected Priest Holmes to be what he was). Tony Richardson had done okay at running back, but we had no idea that he'd be an established fullback. They did not have a good offensive line either, Tait was nothing special at left tackle (in fact I remember thinking he was a weak link, and lo and behold he was shifted to the right the next year when Roaf arrived), Victor Riley was a turnstile at right tackle, obviously Will Shields was great at right guard but he was basically it. We had no idea what Brian Waters was going to be, he was an undrafted player we got from the Cowboys a year or two earlier as I recall, who had to play center the first game of the season because Wiegmann was out. And we didn't think much of Weigmann at the time, either, as I recall. He was an undersized center who'd lost his job to Olin Kreutz.

So there was basically nothing on offense heading into the 2001 season, in other words, outside of Tony Gonzalez and Will Shields. Absolutely zero. Some of us expected exactly what we got from Trent Green because, until Kennison was picked up, he had no receivers at all, no established running back to start the season, and at best an okay offensive line.

Alex Smith has Dwayne Bowe and Donnie Avery starting, which is far better than any tandem of receivers than Green ever had to work with, and he has Dexter McCluster in the slot (whom Reid loves). And there are a variety of receivers to choose from behind them, whether it's speed in Devon Wylie or size in Jon Baldwin. He has Moeaki and Fasano at tight end, who, while they aren't Tony Gonzalez, also aren't a weakness. He has Jamaal Charles at runningback, who's more of a big play threat than any single player Green ever had, and one of the best players in the entire league. And I think it's fair to say that Draughn and Gray are better rotational backs than Mike Cloud and Jermaine Williams. Albert, if they keep him, is a better player than Tait at the time, and if they don't, he'll be replaced with a top-10 pick. The rest of the line is what should be ascending players mostly taken in the first half of the draft over the last few years. Which is at least equivalent to Green's 2001 line, and quite possibly better.

So let's not make this out to be something that it isn't. Alex Smith is being handed the keys to a Ferrari. Well, okay, maybe that's an exaggeration. The keys to a Mustang with a lot of extras. Trent Green was asked to drive a Yugo.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

You can argue whether or not 2001 was was a rebuilding year or not, but that year does not equate with this year in any way, shape or form. Trent Green's only receiver was Tony Gonzalez (Derrick Alexander was trash, Eddie Kennison didn't arrive until the latter half of the season, Snoop Minnis, Larry Parker and Chris Thomas were the other guys), and as far as we knew that offseason we were going to be a RBbC (nobody expected Priest Holmes to be what he was). Tony Richardson had done okay at running back, but we had no idea that he'd be an established fullback. They did not have a good offensive line either, Tait was nothing special at left tackle (in fact I remember thinking he was a weak link, and lo and behold he was shifted to the right the next year when Roaf arrived), Victor Riley was a turnstile at right tackle, obviously Will Shields was great at right guard but he was basically it. We had no idea what Brian Waters was going to be, he was an undrafted player we got from the Cowboys a year or two earlier as I recall, who had to play center the first game of the season because Wiegmann was out. And we didn't think much of Weigmann at the time, either, as I recall. He was an undersized center who'd lost his job to Olin Kreutz.

So there was basically nothing on offense heading into the 2001 season, in other words, outside of Tony Gonzalez and Will Shields. Absolutely zero. Some of us expected exactly what we got from Trent Green because, until Kennison was picked up, he had no receivers at all, no established running back to start the season, and at best an okay offensive line.

Alex Smith has Dwayne Bowe and Donnie Avery starting, which is far better than any tandem of receivers than Green ever had to work with, and he has Dexter McCluster in the slot (whom Reid loves). And there are a variety of receivers to choose from behind them, whether it's speed in Devon Wylie or size in Jon Baldwin. He has Moeaki and Fasano at tight end, who, while they aren't Tony Gonzalez, also aren't a weakness. He has Jamaal Charles at runningback, who's more of a big play threat than any single player Green ever had, and one of the best players in the entire league. And I think it's fair to say that Draughn and Gray are better rotational backs than Mike Cloud and Jermaine Williams. Albert, if they keep him, is a better player than Tait at the time, and if they don't, he'll be replaced with a top-10 pick. The rest of the line is what should be ascending players mostly taken in the first half of the draft over the last few years. Which is at least equivalent to Green's 2001 line, and quite possibly better.

So let's not make this out to be something that it isn't. Alex Smith is being handed the keys to a Ferrari. Well, okay, maybe that's an exaggeration. The keys to a Mustang with a lot of extras. Trent Green was asked to drive a Yugo.

I think you're understating what Trent Green actually had his first year (when you describe it as a Yugo), but I'll agree that the 2013 lineup is probably better. Nontheless, I continue to maintain that 2001 was more like 2013 than like 2009.

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

You can argue whether or not 2001 was was a rebuilding year or not, but that year does not equate with this year in any way, shape or form. Trent Green's only receiver was Tony Gonzalez (Derrick Alexander was trash, Eddie Kennison didn't arrive until the latter half of the season, Snoop Minnis, Larry Parker and Chris Thomas were the other guys), and as far as we knew that offseason we were going to be a RBbC (nobody expected Priest Holmes to be what he was). Tony Richardson had done okay at running back, but we had no idea that he'd be an established fullback. They did not have a good offensive line either, Tait was nothing special at left tackle (in fact I remember thinking he was a weak link, and lo and behold he was shifted to the right the next year when Roaf arrived), Victor Riley was a turnstile at right tackle, obviously Will Shields was great at right guard but he was basically it. We had no idea what Brian Waters was going to be, he was an undrafted player we got from the Cowboys a year or two earlier as I recall, who had to play center the first game of the season because Wiegmann was out. And we didn't think much of Weigmann at the time, either, as I recall. He was an undersized center who'd lost his job to Olin Kreutz.

So there was basically nothing on offense heading into the 2001 season, in other words, outside of Tony Gonzalez and Will Shields. Absolutely zero. Some of us expected exactly what we got from Trent Green because, until Kennison was picked up, he had no receivers at all, no established running back to start the season, and at best an okay offensive line.

Alex Smith has Dwayne Bowe and Donnie Avery starting, which is far better than any tandem of receivers than Green ever had to work with, and he has Dexter McCluster in the slot (whom Reid loves). And there are a variety of receivers to choose from behind them, whether it's speed in Devon Wylie or size in Jon Baldwin. He has Moeaki and Fasano at tight end, who, while they aren't Tony Gonzalez, also aren't a weakness. He has Jamaal Charles at runningback, who's more of a big play threat than any single player Green ever had, and one of the best players in the entire league. And I think it's fair to say that Draughn and Gray are better rotational backs than Mike Cloud and Jermaine Williams. Albert, if they keep him, is a better player than Tait at the time, and if they don't, he'll be replaced with a top-10 pick. The rest of the line is what should be ascending players mostly taken in the first half of the draft over the last few years. Which is at least equivalent to Green's 2001 line, and quite possibly better.

So let's not make this out to be something that it isn't. Alex Smith is being handed the keys to a Ferrari. Well, okay, maybe that's an exaggeration. The keys to a Mustang with a lot of extras. Trent Green was asked to drive a Yugo.

Baldwin is a waste of a roster spot at this point IMO. McCluster.. well... he might be a good punt return option.

Wylie won't make it out of camp, so in essence the '13 Chiefs are only a few steps above the '01 Chiefs. They're head and shoulders better at RB, a wash or worse at FB, better at WR1, wash at WR2, "technically" worse at TE, wash at OL, and it's yet to be determined if QB1 is better in '13 than '01.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

Wylie won't make it out of camp, so in essence the '13 Chiefs are only a few steps above the '01 Chiefs. They're head and shoulders better at RB, a wash or worse at FB, better at WR1, wash at WR2, "technically" worse at TE, wash at OL, and it's yet to be determined if QB1 is better in '13 than '01.

I would say head and shoulders better at RB 1-3, head and shoulders better at both WR1 and WR2, wash or worse at OL. TE is the only position where they're clearly less.

There's not really any point in comparing the QBs because the whole idea behind my post was to discuss the tools that Alex Smith has as opposed to the ones that Trent Green had. People have suggested that he should get a throwaway year because the situation is perceived to be somehow similar 2001, when in reality it's not even remotely close to 2001.

We can go on to talk about the defensive lineup if you want. That's even more lopsided than the offensive discussion.

[Tombstone RJ]

here's what's gonna happen fellas--if kc has a good draft expectations will again be high because, well, a good draft just does that to fans. If kc has a moderate to crappy draft then game over, you all will be freaking out.

Let's pretend kc has a good draft, then comes tc and preseason. This is where kc always wins the SB. You all will be happy as pigs in shit. kc will almost assuredly do well in preseason because, well, they just will.

Let's pretend kc has crappy to partly crappy draft, then tc comes and then preseason. If kc does ok in preseason some of you will be back on board, but the majority of you will reserve judgement or flat out crap fire until the real season.

as for the regular season, as I said in another post, I have no idea what to expect. If kc has a good draft IMHO then kc will have a shot to at the very least win a few more games than last year, but who knows...