** OFFICIAL: "Do You Believe in God and an Afterlife?" Thread**

[Mr. Kotter]

Simple question.

I'm just curious how representative this place is, compared with mainstream America on the question. A few threads of late, just got me wondering....

Please feel free to discuss.

[ZepSinger]

Originally Posted by Braincase

GoChiefs just neg-repped me for this little passage. I guess I must've given him a cyber kick in the nuts.

His remarks were "WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?". My reply to him is that he is with me always. Sometimes he says "Attaboy", and sometimes he says "Maybe you should've thought that one through a little bit more".

GoChiefs, you are a pathetic loser. I hope you find something worth believing in. All the evidence I ever needed to prove the existence of God was in my newborn daughter's first breath.

Look into the eyes of a child, and you know there is a power for goodness beyond the expression of words.

He neg repped me too. Must be sad to have to such a meaningless life.

Z

[Adept Havelock]

Originally Posted by Braincase

I'm a believer, my brother is an atheist. I told him that I'd rather believe what I believe and be wrong, than believe what he does and be wrong.

Ah yes, Game Theory (Prisoners Dilemma) applied to religion.




As for me, I'm not a beliver. I've spent much time trying to understand why people do, and read the Bible, Koran, Torah, and other writings when I was younger. I found them interesting moral and philosphical works. I just haven't found anything to lead me to believe in a "God", "Tao", "Force", or whatever you choose to name it.

I have no difficulty admitting that religion has done much good for Homo Sapiens, as well as much harm. IMO, it's a tool, and any tool depends on the attitude of it's user, much like a gun.

That said, I do distinguish between religion and spirituality. I see Spirituality as a persons "relationship" to what they view as divine. Religion is the socio-economic-political structure created by man around the multiple forms of "Spirituality".

I'll also admit there have been a few bad times when I wished I could find comfort in the ideas of "religion" or "spirituality", but as a wise man once told me "Science is a system of knowledge, not a comforter". I just can't see it as any different than someone who walks blocks out of their way because a black cat crossed their path, freaks out on Friday the 13'th, or believes they are in for seven bad years because they broke a mirror.

If someone chooses to believe in God, Odin, or Lindsey Lohan as a divine being, it's fine with me. Just don't presume to me that it somehow makes you "better", "special", "morally superior", or gets you an unlimited book of E-Tickets in the "afterlife". I don't buy it.

As for morality, I've never needed anything more than the wise words of Hippocrates..."First, do no harm", and that other nice philosphical concept popularly known as "The Golden Rule".

Well, those two and "TANSTAAFL!"

That's why I reject "Religion" and "Sprituality" in general-

As for my utter and complete rejection of a "fundamentalist" or "literalist" approach, I'll ask the indulgence of those that have seen this before, and trot out this quote from a favorite author who is far more eloquent than I:

Originally Posted by Robert Heinlein

The most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by H.Sapiens is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of the Universes, wants the sacharrine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not recieve this flattery. Yet this ridiculous notion, without one real shred of evidence to bolster it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest and least productive industries in history.

Thanks for the thread, Mr. Kotter. It's always an interesting notion to kick around.

[Chiefs_Fan_n_64081]

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

One's worldview is a very difficult, very personal matter. That's my entire point.

This is why I try to believe as Jesus does.

In fact, that is the central prerequisite of the validation of my faith.
People who disagree with my faith should take it up with Jesus.


As far as God's capacity for love, or wrath - that is something, that by the very nature of his divine position, is not subject to anyones approval.

So anyone that finds his behavior or the history of his behavior to be awry should consult the big cheese directly, and according to Jesus that would mean you would have to hook up with the Christ to get that message delivered.

[Braincase]

IIRC, my comment to my brother was made in a defensive fashion after he said something to the effect of "You live, you die, that's it. There is no soul, there is no God."

I'm more spiritual than religious. I sometimes have conflicts concerning organized religion, as I think it has and continues to be a mechanism or the wrong kind of folks to pursue seats of power. We've seen it in just about every religion.

I have a tendency to represent an opposite point of view in any conversation, not so much to defend the perspective, but to insure that others are thinking through all the permutations of their belief system.

And I still think GoChiefs is an asshat just for negrepping those of us that have a faith and are willing to admit it and defend it.

[Adept Havelock]

Originally Posted by Braincase

And I still think GoChiefs is an asshat just for negrepping those of us that have a faith and are willing to admit it and defend it.

Well, that might be a bit of an insult to asshats, but I wouldn't disagree.

I'm not suggesting gochiefs isn't an idiot, but he was raised in a religion that scarred him. It was an extreme religion and moulded his current views on the subject.

I was raised in an extreme religion as well and was extremely anti-religion until recently.

I guess I'm preaching tolerance. The neg-reps are extremely petty though. He has some issues - no doubt about it.

[Bowser]

Interesting thread. Makes me think of the book American Gods by Neil Gaiman. Strange book, but the crux of it is - if you believe in something enough, then to you, it is real.

Seems applicable here.

[Oucho Cinco]

Originally Posted by chagrin

I may have misread your post, but the poll and question do not state that the bible is the absolute word of God

That twist was added by a poster, presumably to interject his own beliefs or disbeliefs.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by Braincase

I'm more spiritual than religious. I sometimes have conflicts concerning organized religion, as I think it has and continues to be a mechanism or the wrong kind of folks to pursue seats of power. We've seen it in just about every religion.

That describes me pretty-much as well.

I have a tendency to represent an opposite point of view in any conversation, not so much to defend the perspective, but to insure that others are thinking through all the permutations of their belief system.

I do this but only on occassion myself.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Bowser

Interesting thread. Makes me think of the book American Gods by Neil Gaiman.

Great book. Ditto for Anansi Boys.

[ZepSinger]

Originally Posted by Phobia

I'm not suggesting gochiefs isn't an idiot, but he was raised in a religion that scarred him. It was an extreme religion and moulded his current views on the subject.

I was raised in an extreme religion as well and was extremely anti-religion until recently.

Same story here. I was raised in a very hard-core Nazarene church that did not talk about God's love or his forgiveness- just about hell, damnation, and His return in wrath to punish those not perfect in Him.

So- at age 18, I gave up on Christianity. I figured "I am not good enough, and I cannot live a perfect life. It's hopeless to try." At that point, I delved into my music and all the decadence and alcohol a touring rock band can dredge up.

It wasn't until I started attending the church that we are now members of that I discovered God's perfect love and endless forgiveness. I now realize that He knows we could never be perfect- yet He loves us anyway.

So- don't give up on your faith! It could well be that your institution just has a distorted doctrine. Sinners are welcome at my church- because everyone is a sinner.

Z

[Logical]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

I was hoping you might pop-in...now if we can only get Chieficus to pop in.

I understand your point, but actually...even with that demographic, we aren't too far off from the "average" of mainstream America, which is surprising to me.

Like you seem to believe, I thought we'd be skewed more the non-believer/atheist direction.

MK
MA Secondary Ed
MA Educational Administration
PhD in Shool of Hard Knocks

Heh.

I think the negative connotation of your non-believer answers may be skewing your results. I disliked the goat herder answer but as a believer in a Creator who has real problems with organized religion I manned up and selected it.

If you were to do it again in the future I would suggest an answer of

I believe their is a creator but I don't believe in organized religion.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by Braincase

GoChiefs just neg-repped me for this little passage. I guess I must've given him a cyber kick in the nuts.

His remarks were "WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?". My reply to him is that he is with me always. Sometimes he says "Attaboy", and sometimes he says "Maybe you should've thought that one through a little bit more".

GoChiefs, you are a pathetic loser. I hope you find something worth believing in. All the evidence I ever needed to prove the existence of God was in my newborn daughter's first breath.

Look into the eyes of a child, and you know there is a power for goodness beyond the expression of words.

Maybe you should've thought that one through a little bit more.

[Mecca]

I'm an atheist.....I don't believe some invisible man in the sky created everything and knows and sees everything we do.....the whole story just seems like such a bullshit story to me.

I believe in reality more than anything.....

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by Logical

I think the negative connotation of your non-believer answers may be skewing your results. I disliked the goat herder answer but as a believer in a Creator who has real problems with organized religion I manned up and selected it.

If you were to do it again in the future I would suggest an answer of

I believe their is a creator but I don't believe in organized religion.

I understand why you would feel that way. If I were to do it over though, the only thing I might have changed....was I'd somehow be more generic with the term "God."

I've gotten pretty much what I had hoped for: I WANTED to find out how many were "believers" in a supreme being/guiding force/creator ....whatever...orgnized religion or not.