Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

[Buck]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...enhancing-drug

He's facing a 50 game suspension.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It absolutely can if you do it correctly.

Again, I'm not talking about handspeed. Your position is that handspeed remains unchanged because fast-twitch muscles aren't impacted. Okay, whatever - I don't know why sprinters continue to use PEDs if that's the case as running speed is based almost entirely on fast-twitch muscles, but it's beside the point - I'm willing to concede your position for the sake of argument.

Batspeed, however, is more than just handspeed. It's a product of both handspeed and strength. You continue to ignore the fact that you're swinging an object that has mass.

If can bench 100 lbs and try to swing a 3 lb, end-weighted object, I'm not going to be able to swing it nearly as hard as if I work out for awhile and get my strength to the point that I can bench 200 lbs. I'm going to be able to move that 30 oz object much more quickly because I don't have to work as hard to overcome the 'inertia' of a resting object.

You keep focusing on the ability to move hands (I guess) and speed/power comes from so much more than that. It comes, again, primarily from your legs. From there it simply compounds itself through your body and the strength builds on strength to create speed.

/facepalm

Ok let's clear a few facts up.

You can get stronger and not get faster. Fact.

You can get faster without getting stronger. Fact.

Two guys that bench press 315 as their max. Who is more powerful? The guy that can press it faster. The other guy can't press it as fast because THAT part of muscular function is dictated by how his central nervous system fires.

A guy can get stronger and not get faster because he isn't WIRED to be fast. it's a neurological thing, not a strength thing.

A guy can get faster, and not have gotten stronger. It's a neurological thing.

According to what you write, getting stronger is the key for a sprinter to get faster. This is not true. A sprinter gets faster by working on the rate of turnover in his stride. The body becomes more efficient from a motor skill perspective by doing this repeated movement. Stronger muscles doesn't always mean he can perform this movement more efficiently.

The same applies here. A guy can get stronger, but have shitty swinging mechanics, which LOTS of major league guys do, just like LOTS of NFL quarterbacks have shitty throwing mechanics, and getting stronger will not fix this.

Thus your argument is completely invalid. If it were true, then Strength and Conditioning coaches would be the second highest paid coaches on the god damn team. But they made bread crumbs compared to everyone else. If all it took was to have a bunch of guys batting better was to get them stronger, then S&C coaches would be looked at as gold. They aren't.

You guys are way out of your element arguing with me on this.

Case closed.

[kcxiv]

baseball swings power comes from the legs and the shifting of your body weight. The rest i dont care to argue. lol

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

/facepalm

Ok let's clear a few facts up.

You can get stronger and not get faster. Fact.

You can get faster without getting stronger. Fact.

Two guys that bench press 315 as their max. Who is more powerful? The guy that can press it faster. The other guy can't press it as fast because THAT part of muscular function is dictated by how his central nervous system fires.

A guy can get stronger and not get faster because he isn't WIRED to be fast. it's a neurological thing, not a strength thing.

A guy can get faster, and not have gotten stronger. It's a neurological thing.

According to what you write, getting stronger is the key for a sprinter to get faster. This is not true. A sprinter gets faster by working on the rate of turnover in his stride. The body becomes more efficient from a motor skill perspective by doing this repeated movement. Stronger muscles doesn't always mean he can perform this movement more efficiently.

The same applies here. A guy can get stronger, but have shitty swinging mechanics, which LOTS of major league guys do, just like LOTS of NFL quarterbacks have shitty throwing mechanics, and getting stronger will not fix this.

Thus your argument is completely invalid. If it were true, then Strength and Conditioning coaches would be the second highest paid coaches on the god damn team. But they made bread crumbs compared to everyone else. If all it took was to have a bunch of guys batting better was to get them stronger, then S&C coaches would be looked at as gold. They aren't.

You guys are way out of your element arguing with me on this.

Case closed.

You are so ****ing dense, it's ridiculous. Of course it's possible to get stronger without getting faster and vice versa. We aren't comparing two different people, though. We are comparing the same person. All else being equal, a professional baseball player is going to have increased bat speed as he gets stronger. It's really no more complicated than that; for non troglodytes, anyway.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

You are so ****ing dense, it's ridiculous. Of course it's possible to get stronger without getting faster and vice versa. We aren't comparing two different people, though. We are comparing the same person. All else being equal, a professional baseball player is going to have increased bat speed as he gets stronger. It's really no more complicated than that; for non troglodytes, anyway.

Though he makes a good point - strength and conditioning coaches don't get paid shit.

Maybe it's because dumbass muscleheads like him are able to teach someone how to lift heavy things repeatedly. They're essentially fungible so there's no point in giving them real money.

Hitting coaches, OTOH, actually have to understand how to apply strength and it's uses to a swing. They actually have to be able to understand a swing and articulate how to refine it. In other words, stuff that a musclehead dipshit like him can't manage. As such, supply and demand dictates that they'd actually get paid pretty well.

He knows absolutely nothing about baseball or a baseball swing, yet I'm the idiot that doesn't understand why adding strength does augment and improve most people's swings.

Whatever - the last word is yours, Al. I'm sure it will be just as enlightening as every other bit of juice-addled tripe you've littered throughout this mess of a thread.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

You are so ****ing dense, it's ridiculous. Of course it's possible to get stronger without getting faster and vice versa.

a professional baseball player is going to have increased bat speed as he gets stronger. It's really no more complicated than that

Heh.

Comedy gold. It's like the Rick James skit where he goes "course I remember grinding my feet into Eddie Murphey's couch......"

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Heh.

Comedy gold. It's like the Rick James skit where he goes "course I remember grinding my feet into Eddie Murphey's couch......"

There is nothing contradictory there unless you're an idiot...which you are...and you missed where I qualified the second statement with a reference to professional baseball players.

It is possible to get stronger without getting faster, but it's also understood that professional baseball players train to do both.

[lewdog]

I would be in for doing some steroids. Maybe it would clear up my hip pain issues.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Though he makes a good point - strength and conditioning coaches don't get paid shit.

Maybe it's because dumbass muscleheads like him are able to teach someone how to lift heavy things repeatedly. They're essentially fungible so there's no point in giving them real money.

You don't know a god damn thing about me or the strength and conditioning field nor steroids. You repeatedly prove that over and over in this thread.

Hitting coaches, OTOH, actually have to understand how to apply strength and it's uses to a swing. They actually have to be able to understand a swing and articulate how to refine it. In other words, stuff that a musclehead dipshit like him can't manage. As such, supply and demand dictates that they'd actually get paid pretty well.

He knows absolutely nothing about baseball or a baseball swing, yet I'm the idiot that doesn't understand why adding strength does augment and improve most people's swings.

Whatever - the last word is yours, Al. I'm sure it will be just as enlightening as every other bit of juice-addled tripe you've littered throughout this mess of a thread.

You were the one that chimed in with goodies such as how steroids improve fast twitch fibers and such. There's nothing worse than some asshole like you or Saul talking on these subjects like you know something, when you are really complete ****ing idiots.

[pkane]

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/46503925/

Ryan Braun won his 50-game PED suspension appeal.


Braun tested positive in early October for "insanely high" levels of synthetic testosterone. But he has maintained a cry of innocence since news of that positive test broke and made an appeal to a three-person panel of independent arbitrators last month in New York City. His side of the story was apparently convincing. It's the first time a PED suspension appeal has been successful since Major League Baseball implemented its drug policy, and it obviously comes as great news for the Brewers. The 2011 National League MVP is again a sure-fire first-round fantasy outfielder.

[alnorth]

Ryan Braun has won his appeal and will not be suspended.

Ryan Braun wins appeal of suspension

The vote was 2-1. The union rep voted for Braun, management voted no, and baseball's independent arbitrator Shyam Das broke the tie in favor of Braun. No reasoning or details have been released yet.

[Rams Fan]

Son of a bitch.

[alnorth]

Statement from Ryan Braun in response to arbitration decision:

“I am very pleased and relieved by today’s decision.

“It is the first step in restoring my good name and reputation. We were able to get through this because I am innocent and the truth is on our side.

“We provided complete cooperation throughout, despite the highly unusual circumstances.

“I have been an open book, willing to share details from every aspect of my life as part of this investigation, because I have nothing to hide. I have passed over 25 drug tests in my career, including at least three in the past year.

“I would like to thank my family and friends, my teammates, the Brewers organization led by Mark Attanasio, Doug Melvin, Gord Ash and Ron Roenicke, and other players around the league who have expressed their support and our great fans in Milwaukee and around the country who stuck by me and did not rush to judgment.

“I’d also like to offer special thanks to Michael Weiner and the Players Association for believing in me since day one and to my attorneys.

“I’d like to thank my agent Nez Balelo and Terry Prince of CAA Sports and Matthew Hiltzik of Hiltzik Strategies for all of their help and counsel through the process.

“This is not just about one person, but about all current and future players, and thankfully, today the process worked.

“Despite the challenges of this adversarial process, I do appreciate the professionalism demonstrated by the Panel Chair and the Office of the Commissioner.

“As I said before, I’ve always loved and had so much respect for the game of baseball.

“Everything I’ve done in my career has been with that respect and appreciation in mind.

“I look forward to finally being able to speak to the fans and the media on Friday and then returning the focus to baseball and working with my Brewers teammates on defending our National League Central title.”

[chefsos]

Not sure why, but I thought MLB would be a little more gracious in the event of a successful appeal. Guess not.

"As a part of our drug testing program, the Commissioner's Office and the Players Association agreed to a neutral third party review for instances that are under dispute," MLB executive vice president for labor relations Rob Manfred said in a statement. "While we have always respected that process, Major League Baseball vehemently disagrees with the decision rendered today by arbitrator Shyam Das."

[alnorth]

One minor nugget of leaked info from Milwaukee's paper.

Someone familiar with the decision said the appeal went Braun's way not so much on contesting the result of the test but the testing process itself, some kind of technicality.

...

A source familiar with MLB’s drug policy indicated there were only a few ways to overturn a positive test, such as proving a chain-of-custody issue, a flaw in the collection process or providing proof that the player’s team signed off on the substance. Otherwise, the “strict liability” aspect of the policy makes it extremely difficult to exonerate a player.

Apparently, Braun won his appeal by contesting something in the process itself.

This might follow along with our earlier speculation that maybe there was a chain of custody issue or something where Braun's side argued the sample was tampered with. Who knows if that's true, but if there's a chain of custody issue, MLB has to improve their process and standards to fix that.

[jAZ]

“I have been an open book, willing to share details from every aspect of my life as part of this investigation, because I have nothing to hide."

Really? What exactly was the argument you made in your appeal? I haven't heard that anywhere.