2023 Free Agency

[O.city]

Figured we could get one of these going as well.

Who's some guys we like, would like to see in KC?

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

No, as i stated above, i fully expect Toney, Skyy and MVS to do better in 2023. But is it realistic to expect that toney and Skyy will be 400+% more productive? I think that's probably a stretch.

And yet again, i didn't say KC has to acquire either OBJ or DHop. They just could solve all those productivity issues by themselves, individually (not suggesting that we need both). But I'm already on the record saying that we probably don't have the juice to get either. And you already read my posts about that several times, bud.

However, and again, it could be solved by bringing Hardman back for TDs, 3rd and long situations, and stretching the field horizontally, then a mid-level WR2 could fill in the rest, probably.

We'd still have to get a lot more production out of Toney and Skyy (Gray and Pacheco as well, but never mind that for now), but we wouldn't be asking them to be 400% more productive.

I never said anything about Omenihu?

I'm already on the record saying Taylor will probably be a better fit than OBJ was, so I don't know where this stuff comes from, but it wasn't me.

And I know the defense will be better. Especially in the secondary. But defense doesn't win championships anymore. Offense does. We probably will never have a top-5 defense during the Mahomes era. It's not how Andy thinks. We're going to live and die by the offensive sword, because Mahomes. Andy isn't going to suddenly become a defensive-minded coach because Mahomes costs 23% of the cap. he's going to "keep firing!" because that's what he does.

I'm just telling it like it is. The WR room is not what it needs to be if KC is going to win another SB in 2023. We need significantly more ammo, from somewhere. Probably not going to get DHop and I doubt Veach will give OBJ a multi-year deal, so from some other WR ranked between 26 and 40? We could drop that a bit if we got Hardman back.

But the yards, 1st downs and TDs have to come from somewhere. And I'm pretty sure they aren't currently in the building.

Hardman posted 6 TDs for KC in 2022, and 4 of them were in the RZ. Situationally, if not in raw yardage, he was very productive.

Dude, Toney was here 1/3 of the season and Moore barely played. And it's March, and the roster is nowhere near set.

Where are you getting this 400% number? Because I don't think Moore and Toney both need to be like 1,200 yard receivers for this offense to function. I think we're getting pretty silly here.

What you are stating over and over is that this team won 9 games by 4 points or less, and we're in grave danger of losing those games right now. Of course, you're comparing this incomplete roster in March to the opponents' complete roster in season, which they don't have either right now, so the whole argument is a farce.

And you refuse to grant any of the extenuating circumstance that the team played through in '22-namely and entirely new WR room other than Hardman, a lot of injuries, and starting 5 rookies the bulk of the season on defense with a 6th taking a LOT of snaps, too. So none of that matters, the problem is that our WR's weren't good enough, so we're doomed.

Never mind that the HUGE turnover in the WR room last year means we'll have most of the guys back (and if not, that would have to be a clear upgrade not to) and in their second year in this offense, and that the 6 rookies on defense aren't rookies anymore. You don't think that maybe equals a little better scoring defense? A little less confusion on our offense?

No, you're not being realistic, you're being very pessimistic. Guys get better when they're young. Entire units operate more efficiently when they get more reps together. There's no reason at all to expect disaster.

Especially, because it's MARCH. This roster is nowhere near complete. I'm not going to get into an argument with you about 'well what if this is it' because it's clearly NOT.

You're looking at everything in a vaccuum. And that's not accurate. The whole league is in flux. Nobody is set right now.

[Chris Meck]

Also, and this is the REASON for all of this uncertainty-

You're paying your QB almost a quarter of your cap. If you think we're doing that and are still going to be 100% comfortable with no question marks heading into the season, you're going to be really disappointed.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Also, and this is the REASON for all of this uncertainty-

You're paying your QB almost a quarter of your cap. If you think we're doing that and are still going to be 100% comfortable with no question marks heading into the season, you're going to be really disappointed.

He's taking up 18% of the cap this year.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Dude, Toney was here 1/3 of the season and Moore barely played. And it's March, and the roster is nowhere near set.

Where are you getting this 400% number? Because I don't think Moore and Toney both need to be like 1,200 yard receivers for this offense to function. I think we're getting pretty silly here.

What you are stating over and over is that this team won 9 games by 4 points or less, and we're in grave danger of losing those games right now. Of course, you're comparing this incomplete roster in March to the opponents' complete roster in season, which they don't have either right now, so the whole argument is a farce.

And you refuse to grant any of the extenuating circumstance that the team played through in '22-namely and entirely new WR room other than Hardman, a lot of injuries, and starting 5 rookies the bulk of the season on defense with a 6th taking a LOT of snaps, too. So none of that matters, the problem is that our WR's weren't good enough, so we're doomed.

Never mind that the HUGE turnover in the WR room last year means we'll have most of the guys back (and if not, that would have to be a clear upgrade not to) and in their second year in this offense, and that the 6 rookies on defense aren't rookies anymore. You don't think that maybe equals a little better scoring defense? A little less confusion on our offense?

No, you're not being realistic, you're being very pessimistic. Guys get better when they're young. Entire units operate more efficiently when they get more reps together. There's no reason at all to expect disaster.

Especially, because it's MARCH. This roster is nowhere near complete. I'm not going to get into an argument with you about 'well what if this is it' because it's clearly NOT.

You're looking at everything in a vaccuum. And that's not accurate. The whole league is in flux. Nobody is set right now.

400% better for Toney would be about what? 700+ yards? Of course, he'd have to stay healthy. What if he goes down for 6-8 games? Not like it hasn't already happened before, right? But 700-800 yards, we'd be pretty happy with that in his first full year as a Chief, I think. Especially when he hasn't caught over 600 yds in his entire career. At least we can probably agree he'll catch more than a pair of TDs in 2023. Even if he only plays in 10 games he'll probably catch at least 6-8 i think.

Skyy is the great unknown. I think he'll be more productive, but does 750+ yards sound likely? I mean, if he makes great improvement over the offseason, maybe. But am I crazy to think that 500 or so is more likely in his second year? It sounds doable, anyway. And we'll just not talk about TDs right now.

I'm just saying, even hitting those first numbers, there's a hole in the room. That's not pessimism, that's a fact. And Andy/Veach already know this. It's probably part of why they sent someone to OB's workout, and why they're even thinking about DHop. But I don't think they can realistically get either.

Whatever. Maybe they go after Hollins or Thielen. But one thing for sure: they won't go into the season with MVS, Toney, and Skyy, the Ross', and a couple rooks. There's just not enough reliability there, it's mostly potential, and a very large dose of risk.

400% of 171 yards would be 684 yards. So I really meant 500%, which would take Toney to 855.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by O.city

He's taking up 18% of the cap this year.

ah, the restructure. Well that helps a little.

It would still be yet another record setting SB win if they pull it off since last year's 17% was the record. No other team had done it at more than 13% and change.

At any rate, this team is not complete right now, neither is anyone else, and getting too worried about anything is likely to much ado about nothing come September.

You guys wanna talk WR's? Let's do, but can we talk about realistic options?

[kevrunner]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I like Mingo. I keep seeing him go in the 3rd and 4th. But I like what I've seen.

Mingo is drawing a lot of interests from teams. I’ve read where both the Lions and Steelers are very interested and also saw this guy’s tweet regarding a few other teams showing interest. I think he’ll go in the 3rd round.

Ole Miss WR Jonathan Mingo has met formally with the Ravens, 49ers, Cardinals, per source.

Physically impressive kid at 6020, 220 pounds.

— Ryan Fowler (@_RyanFowler_) March 10, 2023

[Couch-Potato]

Originally Posted by kevrunner

Mingo is drawing a lot of interests from teams. I’ve read where both the Lions and Steelers are very interested and also saw this guy’s tweet regarding a few other teams showing interest. I think he’ll go in the 3rd round.

Ole Miss WR Jonathan Mingo has met formally with the Ravens, 49ers, Cardinals, per source.

Physically impressive kid at 6020, 220 pounds.

— Ryan Fowler (@_RyanFowler_) March 10, 2023

Damn I really like him as one of our targets but looks like theirs plenty of competition.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

400% better for Toney would be about what? 700+ yards? Of course, he'd have to stay healthy. What if he goes down for 6-8 games? Not like it hasn't already happened before, right? But 700-800 yards, we'd be pretty happy with that in his first full year as a Chief, I think. Especially when he hasn't caught over 600 yds in his entire career. At least we can probably agree he'll catch more than a pair of TDs in 2023. Even if he only plays in 10 games he'll probably catch at least 6-8 i think.

Skyy is the great unknown. I think he'll be more productive, but does 750+ yards sound likely? I mean, if he makes great improvement over the offseason, maybe. But am I crazy to think that 500 or so is more likely in his second year? It sounds doable, anyway. And we'll just not talk about TDs right now.

I'm just saying, even hitting those first numbers, there's a hole in the room. That's not pessimism, that's a fact. And Andy/Veach already know this. It's probably part of why they sent someone to OB's workout, and why they're even thinking about DHop. But I don't think they can realistically get either.

Whatever. Maybe they go after Hollins or Thielen. But one thing for sure: they won't go into the season with MVS, Toney, and Skyy, the Ross', and a couple rooks. There's just not enough reliability there, it's mostly potential, and a very large dose of risk.

400% of 171 yards would be 684 yards. So I really meant 500%, which would take Toney to 855.

I've never once said I think this WR room is finished as it currently stands.

And Toney's 'career' consists of two years. LOL. So yeah, I fully expect that a 'career year' is entirely possible. Skyy's 'career' consists of one rookie season.

Do I think Toney's likely to hit 855 yards? If healthy, absolutely. Do I think Sky makes 684? Yeah, that's not really lofty atmosphere if these guys are expected to play a big role. I mean, if we're worried that we can't reach that in a vacuum then I don't know what we're even talking about. Of course, the games aren't in a vacuum, and injuries happen, and other guys we don't even know yet will get some targets and getting too worried about any of it right now is kind of pointless.

I also expect Pacheco to be more productive, as he really played mostly the second half of the year. Year two, I expect he'll have the staff's full trust.

If they're worried about Kelce, they can give him some more reps off, it's not like we don't have any other TE's. But he's out there because he wants to be. And he's gonna catch 100 balls, because he's Travis Kelce, and that's what he does.


And we'll almost certainly bring another vet, maybe two, and probably draft a guy too.

I'm not counting on anything from the Ross's. Although of the two, i think there might be a chance with Justyn Ross. But I don't factor that into my thinking.

I DO tend to think that Mckinnon and JWat come back, just makes too much sense not to. They'll be cheap, they know the offense, and if nothing else are easy, quality depth.

But we'll see. I'd bet my house this will be a top 5 offense, wouldn't you? And what if the defense is top 5? I see that as a REAL possibility. Don't you think that might make for a pretty great overall team? I do. Mahomes and a top 5 defense? Shit, I'll take that any day.

I feel like you guys are ignoring the financials and being overly pessimistic. I'm totally OPTIMISTIC.

[Chris Meck]

Hey, maybe we could do this-

Let's keep the Hopkins talk over in the Hopkins thread. And the OBJ talk in the OBJ thread.

That way we can talk about other shit here without having to take up the whole damned thread arguing about those particular (im)probablities?

I'm totally interested in hearing about and considering almost anyone else.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I've never once said I think this WR room is finished as it currently stands.

And Toney's 'career' consists of two years. LOL. So yeah, I fully expect that a 'career year' is entirely possible. Skyy's 'career' consists of one rookie season.

Do I think Toney's likely to hit 855 yards? If healthy, absolutely. Do I think Sky makes 684? Yeah, that's not really lofty atmosphere if these guys are expected to play a big role. I mean, if we're worried that we can't reach that in a vacuum then I don't know what we're even talking about. Of course, the games aren't in a vacuum, and injuries happen, and other guys we don't even know yet will get some targets and getting too worried about any of it right now is kind of pointless.

I also expect Pacheco to be more productive, as he really played mostly the second half of the year. Year two, I expect he'll have the staff's full trust.

If they're worried about Kelce, they can give him some more reps off, it's not like we don't have any other TE's. But he's out there because he wants to be. And he's gonna catch 100 balls, because he's Travis Kelce, and that's what he does.


And we'll almost certainly bring another vet, maybe two, and probably draft a guy too.

I'm not counting on anything from the Ross's. Although of the two, i think there might be a chance with Justyn Ross. But I don't factor that into my thinking.

I DO tend to think that Mckinnon and JWat come back, just makes too much sense not to. They'll be cheap, they know the offense, and if nothing else are easy, quality depth.

But we'll see. I'd bet my house this will be a top 5 offense, wouldn't you? And what if the defense is top 5? I see that as a REAL possibility. Don't you think that might make for a pretty great overall team? I do. Mahomes and a top 5 defense? Shit, I'll take that any day.

I feel like you guys are ignoring the financials and being overly pessimistic. I'm totally OPTIMISTIC.

I doubt the defense will be top 5. Top 10 feels doable, depending on how our new/new-to-the-Chiefs EDGEs play out.

Skyy should go over 600 yards, I would have to think. And grab 5 TDs? Please?

Toney's only question mark is can he stay healthy? If he can, he'll hit those numbers pretty easily. If he can't stay on the field, well, there goes our only true press man-beater outside of Kelce. Which means more snaps and targets for Kelce.

Gray I just don't see doing a whole lot more than what he's doing already.

But that's quite a few 'IFs' in there. Not a lot of certainty.

[Couch-Potato]

Sounds like OBJ to DAL is a thing, WR market getting very thin.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Hey, maybe we could do this-

Let's keep the Hopkins talk over in the Hopkins thread. And the OBJ talk in the OBJ thread.

That way we can talk about other shit here without having to take up the whole damned thread arguing about those particular (im)probablities?

I'm totally interested in hearing about and considering almost anyone else.

Fair.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I doubt the defense will be top 5. Top 10 feels doable, depending on how our new/new-to-the-Chiefs EDGEs play out.

Skyy should go over 600 yards, I would have to think. And grab 5 TDs? Please?

Toney's only question mark is can he stay healthy? If he can, he'll hit those numbers pretty easily. If he can't stay on the field, well, there goes our only true press man-beater outside of Kelce. Which means more snaps and targets for Kelce.

Gray I just don't see doing a whole lot more than what he's doing already.

But that's quite a few 'IFs' in there. Not a lot of certainty.

I think that's a reasonable minimum for Skyy. I expect at least that. Of course, some of that depends on who they bring in. If it's just a draftee, then they're probably not likely to take a huge role. If it's a vet, they'll get more targets.

I think Gray's only problem is that he plays on a team with Travis Kelce.

I'm sure they'll bring in a couple of guys. Callaway is interesting. He fits Veach's recent profile; 25, cheap, still has room to grow.

There's a chunk of Juju's production right there. And he seems quicker.

And the defense I am VERY excited about. I'm fully expecting a shiny new pass rusher in the draft. And a couple of new DL overall. I think we're going to be really good on that side of the ball.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I think that's a reasonable minimum for Skyy. I expect at least that. Of course, some of that depends on who they bring in. If it's just a draftee, then they're probably not likely to take a huge role. If it's a vet, they'll get more targets.

I think Gray's only problem is that he plays on a team with Travis Kelce.

I'm sure they'll bring in a couple of guys. Callaway is interesting. He fits Veach's recent profile; 25, cheap, still has room to grow.

There's a chunk of Juju's production right there. And he seems quicker.

I know diddly about Callaway; tell me about him.

What we need is a prototypical possession-type WR. 6'2"-ish, 210-lbs-ish, good hands, can decipher zones (hopefully beat man, if not press), and will go over the middle.

We'd like him to be quicker than JuJu, because he was often late on a lot of his crossers, 7 routes, and couldn't even run overs. So even if this hypothetical WR can't beat press, if he could just be quicker across the middle, and to his breaks, it would make a difference.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I know diddly about Callaway; tell me about him.

What we need is a prototypical possession-type WR. 6'2"-ish, 210-lbs-ish, good hands, can decipher zones (hopefully beat man, if not press), and will go over the middle.

We'd like him to be quicker than JuJu, because he was often late on a lot of his crossers, 7 routes, and couldn't even run overs. So even if this hypothetical WR can't beat press, if he could just be quicker across the middle, and to his breaks, it would make a difference.

6'2", 205, good hands, looks like a good route runner, kind of a Juju but quicker. And he's 24, and had 698 yards in 2021 with dumpster fire QB play in N.O.
*edited for accuracy