"Official" 2011 St. Louis Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

This is so unreal. We were dead. No hope. A season over. Somehow, someway we find some team chemistry and squeak into the playoffs on the last day of the season.

Only to find us facing one of the best pitching staffs assembled in years with home field advantage. We somehow, someway find a way to beat the best pitcher in baseball on the road in an elimination game.

We have to go on the road and beat the team with the best home record in baseball. A team who mortgaged their future to make this run .We somehow, someway find a way to beat them on the road and make our 18th World series trip.

We take game 1, we give away game 2 and home field advantage. Albert goes off for probably the best performance in World Series history and we take game 3 easily. Games 4 & 5 our bats fall asleep, Phone gate happens and its not looking too good.

Game 6, one of the best baseball games of all time and it takes place in a season ending go home game. Cardinals are down 2 runs in their final chance on the season, twice. They are down to their final strike of the season, twice. They give up a 2 run homer in extra innings. In the bottom of the inning their final 3 batters are a combined 3-26 in the Playoffs and a pitcher because the bench is empty. Somehow, someway they get some runners on and the comeback player of the year drives in the tying run. Mr. Freese hits the walk off home run. We will see you tommorrow night.

Game 7, With our bulldog on the mound pitching on 3 days rest he is able to give us 6 good innings and get us to within 9 outs of our 11 World series title. Texas meltsdown, probably left over from last nights game and its over.

The underdog, come back team who had no business even being in the playoffs wins a World championship. They make movies about events like this in life. Events that you remember even if your not a fan of the sport or team for the rest of your life.

When it is your team.......Priceless


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[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

When you have Hanson, Vizcaino, Jurrjens, Minor and Beachy already lined up for your rotation for the next 1/2 decade, you just might consider dealing Teheran to bring in the local boy.

Not saying they'll do it with a smile, but they might not be as reluctant as you think given the depth, youth and performance of their starters in-house.

Would you be happy if they gave up Beachy for Rasmus straight up or with another SP prospect?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Would you be happy if they gave up Beachy for Rasmus straight up or with another SP prospect?

Nope. I like Beachy, but his top-end is a #3 starter on a contender, IMO. He's a hell of a strikeout pitcher, but I don't think he has a lot of staying power.

Beachy and Minor? We'll talk. But Beachy on his own just doesn't have enough to him for me to be happy giving up a legitimate 20/20 CFer.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Nope. I like Beachy, but his top-end is a #3 starter on a contender, IMO. He's a hell of a strikeout pitcher, but I don't think he has a lot of staying power.

Beachy and Minor? We'll talk. But Beachy on his own just doesn't have enough to him for me to be happy giving up a legitimate 20/20 CFer.

Just me, but I don't really like Minor. Beachy is who I'd go after + some other pitching prospect.

[gblowfish]

Originally Posted by VAChief

Curious Case of Curt Flood is just coming on HBO right now. Anyone seen it yet?

http://tinyurl.com/6d7393w

I watched this special on HBO last night, bio about Curt Flood, his time coming up to the St. Louis Cards, his error in the 1968 World Series, his subsequent trials with the reserve clause, very interesting stuff. He was a very complex guy with a lot of twists and turns.

When I was little, my first team wasn't the Royals, it was the Cards. I started following baseball for real in 1967. The first year I really paid attention, my team (The Cards) won the World Series vs Boston, and the next year they lost vs. Detroit. I just took for granted that my team would be in the world series all the time! Then in 1969 we got the Royals in KC, and I became a die hard Royals fan.

I can still remember lots of guys who were on the 1967-68 era Cardinals. I had all their baseball cards:

OF: Tolan, Brock, Flood
INF: Shannon, Maxville, Javier and Cepeda
C: McCarver
Best Pitcher: Gibson.

That was a Hell of a team.

They had video highlights of Curt Flood in the 1964 World Series when he was a rookie. He reminded me a lot of Willie McGee (not as ugly). Very graceful in the outfield, reliable, had one season (I think it was 1966?) where he made ZERO errors in the outfield. That's why the misplay in the 1968 series was so shocking.

He was a heavy drinker and boozer. His career was shot once he left St. Louis.

Do you St. Louis Cards fans have a take on Flood? Do you love him, hate him, don't care about him any more? He's a truly historic baseball figure.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

There is no way the Rays give up Hellickson plus for Rasmus.

[seclark]

Originally Posted by gblowfish

http://tinyurl.com/6d7393w

I can still remember lots of guys who were on the 1967-68 era Cardinals. I had all their baseball cards:

OF: Tolan, Brock, Flood
INF: Shannon, Maxville, Javier and Cepeda
C: McCarver
Best Pitcher: Gibson.

That was a Hell of a team.

They had video highlights of Curt Flood in the 1964 World Series when he was a rookie. He reminded me a lot of Willie McGee (not as ugly). Very graceful in the outfield, reliable, had one season (I think it was 1966?) where he made ZERO errors in the outfield. That's why the misplay in the 1968 series was so shocking.

He was a heavy drinker and boozer. His career was shot once he left St. Louis.

Do you St. Louis Cards fans have a take on Flood? Do you love him, hate him, don't care about him any more? He's a truly historic baseball figure.

i remember those years, too. got to skip school to watch the ws.

as for flood, i was kind of young to understand what was really going on. i remember my old man really disliking the guy, but never really knew why.
sec

[DJ's left nut]

As a Cards fan in my (very) late 20s, I have no real-time opinion on Flood.

However, historically I see Flood as a 'baseball' figure rather than a Cardinal. I'd say I'm completely ambivalent towards him, but having read enough history, I do see him as the guy that screwed up the '68 series for Gibson. I know that's petty, but it is what it is.

My experience, though, is that the old-school Cardinals fans tend to remember him pretty fondly.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

As a Cards fan in my (very) late 20s, I have no real-time opinion on Flood.

However, historically I see Flood as a 'baseball' figure rather than a Cardinal. I'd say I'm completely ambivalent towards him, but having read enough history, I do see him as the guy that screwed up the '68 series for Gibson. I know that's petty, but it is what it is.

My experience, though, is that the old-school Cardinals fans tend to remember him pretty fondly.

I'm in my late 30's and would agree.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by PGM

There is no way the Rays give up Hellickson plus for Rasmus.

Then **** 'em.

Rasmus was one of the 5 best CFers in baseball last season. He has improved his defense this season to slightly above average (though frustrating as hell on a daily basis) and has shown that he absolutely has 25/25 or better potential.

If they don't think Hellickson is worth a 24 yr. old with that kind of major league track record as well as minor league pedigree, they can piss up a damn rope. It's not like we're dangling So Taguchi here - this kid has legitimate star talent.

I'll deal him because I'm not sure he's going to realize it here, but I'm damn sure not going to deal him for Wade Davis or Jeff Niemann.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Then **** 'em.

Rasmus was one of the 5 best CFers in baseball last season. He has improved his defense this season to slightly above average (though frustrating as hell on a daily basis) and has shown that he absolutely has 25/25 or better potential.

If they don't think Hellickson is worth a 24 yr. old with that kind of major league track record as well as minor league pedigree, they can piss up a damn rope. It's not like we're dangling So Taguchi here - this kid has legitimate star talent.

I'll deal him because I'm not sure he's going to realize it here, but I'm damn sure not going to deal him for Wade Davis or Jeff Niemann.

Not necessarily for Rasmus, but what do you think of Holland in Texas?

I've never seen him pitch, but I hear he might be on the block as well.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Not necessarily for Rasmus, but what do you think of Holland in Texas?

I've never seen him pitch, but I hear he might be on the block as well.

I think I just recommended him in my PM to you.

Major upside pitcher that seems to never quite get on track. I'd love to get him if he comes reasonably. I'm not sure what the Rangers would be after, though. They're loaded in the OF and set on the IF.

Their bullpen is unsteady, so I'd imagine they'll make Holland part of a package for Bell or someone of similar stripe. I doubt they'd move him for McClellan or Motte, but I'd do that in a heartbeat.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I think I just recommended him in my PM to you.

Major upside pitcher that seems to never quite get on track. I'd love to get him if he comes reasonably. I'm not sure what the Rangers would be after, though. They're loaded in the OF and set on the IF.

Their bullpen is unsteady, so I'd imagine they'll make Holland part of a package for Bell or someone of similar stripe. I doubt they'd move him for McClellan or Motte, but I'd do that in a heartbeat.

Hmmm.

I read somewhere they are looking for an everyday CF.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Hmmm.

I read somewhere they are looking for an everyday CF.

They could use one, but I don't know if they're waiting on Borbon or not.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

As a Cards fan in my (very) late 20s, I have no real-time opinion on Flood.

However, historically I see Flood as a 'baseball' figure rather than a Cardinal. I'd say I'm completely ambivalent towards him, but having read enough history, I do see him as the guy that screwed up the '68 series for Gibson. I know that's petty, but it is what it is.

My experience, though, is that the old-school Cardinals fans tend to remember him pretty fondly.

I was a youngster in first grade or so during the 67-69 teams. My first experience as a Cardinal fan.

Flood, Tolan, Cepeda, Maxwill were the first players on my first Cardinal teams and will forever hold a special place. But Gibby and Brock were my favorites.

I didn't understand the whole Flood thing at the time. But remember him as a great fielder and hustled all the time. Didn't Willie Mays say Curt Flood was the best Center Fielder of all time, even better than himself?

[McWickedson]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I do see him as the guy that screwed up the '68 series for Gibson. I know that's petty, but it is what it is.

I say Brock's inability to slide towards home plate in Game 5 is what screwed the Cards. When you have a 3-1 series lead, you shouldn't let it come down to that and Flood's misplay in Game 7.