2018 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

Opening day lineup

Fowler RF
Pham CF
Carpenter 3B
Ozuna LF
Martinez 1B
Molina C
Dejong SS
Wong 2B
Pitcher

Edit:
Matheny fired 07/14/2018




Opening Day Roster

Spoiler!

St. Louis has opted to carry 12 position players and 13 pitchers to begin the new season, with a four-man bench and eight-man bullpen.

Outfielders:
Dexter Fowler
Tommy Pham
Marcell Ozuna

Infielders:
Matt Carpenter
Paul DeJong
Kolten Wong

Catchers:
Yadier Molina
Francisco Pena

Utility:
Jose Martinez
Greg Garcia
Yairo Munoz
Jedd Gyrko

Starters:
Carlos Martinez
Michael Wacha
Luke Weaver
Miles Mikolas
Jack Flaherty

Relievers:
Dominic Leone
Tyler Lyons
Bud Norris
Brett Cecil
Sam Tuivailala
Matt Bowman
Jordan Hicks
Mike Mayers

On the DL:
Adam Wainwright
Luke Gregerson

[jd1020]

Florial has 250 something PA's in A+ and you are trying to diminish it by say it includes all of 8 in one season and so many in another.

How the hell is grading someones performance at a low age and low level faulty logic? How the **** do you think he is going to be graded and promoted to AA?

If it's faulty logic to grade someone's poor performance at a low age on a larger sample size. Its even more faulty logic to consider him a top prospect at a low age when he's easily 2, probably 3 years, from even sniffing the majors. I don't give a shit how good your defense is, or how fast you run the bases, if you can't hit at the plate then you aren't going to be on the field (Hi, Jason Heyward).

Alex Reyes dropped like 10 spots after missing a whole season and not playing at all.

Florial drops out of the top 50 after 150 PA's on the season. He dropped because he hasn't shown he can hit at even A+.

And Sheffield is absolutely dominating AAA, Hamas. He got roughed up in one start for 6 runs. The rest of his time in AAA sits at a 1.52 ERA. What a bum. Not striking out 9 batters per 9 (56 K's in 57 innings... GTFO).

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The Athletic still has writers that do actual spadework, as opposed to the guys that work for the local newspapers that can't afford to risk alienating the front office and losing their access.

I agree. Its not a Cardinals thing, its just a human nature thing. A reporter cant maintain access to the local team and write objectivity, your going to hold back to maintain access. What good is a beat reporter is they cant access the beat? The team doesn't want negative articles written. They will tolerate one every once in a while but if you go after the teams decisions regularly, your going to lose access.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Saxon's piece on Hicks/Norris and the quotes he got from Matheny are very likely what ultimately finished Mike Matheny.

I also think it was the national publicity that pushed them to act. The Fowler and then the Hicks/Norris stories went national. Embarrassed the Cardinals. Billionaires don't like to be embarrassed nationally.

[Nzoner]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

He’s a stinking Cubs fan.

Cool

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I agree. Its not a Cardinals thing, its just a human nature thing. A reporter cant maintain access to the local team and write objectivity, your going to hold back to maintain access. What good is a beat reporter is they cant access the beat? The team doesn't want negative articles written. They will tolerate one every once in a while but if you go after the teams decisions regularly, your going to lose access.

I also think it was the national publicity that pushed them to act. The Fowler and then the Hicks/Norris stories went national. Embarrassed the Cardinals. Billionaires don't like to be embarrassed nationally.

Evidently DeWitt was very specifically pissed about Matheny's quotes in that piece where he seemed to relish being something of a shitheaded schoolmarm.

With the piece picking up steam throughout the week and the call being made on Friday, not to mention the publicly provided 'the team needed a different voice' justification, it's hard to say that the Saxon piece and subsequent outcry didn't play a major role.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Florial has 250 something PA's in A+ and you are trying to diminish it by say it includes all of 8 in one season and so many in another.

How the hell is grading someones performance at a low age and low level faulty logic? How the **** do you think he is going to be graded and promoted to AA?

If it's faulty logic to grade someone's poor performance at a low age on a larger sample size. Its even more faulty logic to consider him a top prospect at a low age when he's easily 2, probably 3 years, from even sniffing the majors. I don't give a shit how good your defense is, or how fast you run the bases, if you can't hit at the plate then you aren't going to be on the field (Hi, Jason Heyward).

Alex Reyes dropped like 10 spots after missing a whole season and not playing at all.

Florial drops out of the top 50 after 150 PA's on the season. He dropped because he hasn't shown he can hit at even A+.

And Sheffield is absolutely dominating AAA, Hamas. He got roughed up in one start for 6 runs. The rest of his time in AAA sits at a 1.52 ERA. What a bum. Not striking out 9 batters per 9 (56 K's in 57 innings... GTFO).

Even 250 ABs is a very small sample for performance.

You’re falling into the classic stat line scouting problem many do when looking at prospects. Stats aren’t going to tell you everything or even most things about a prospect. Tools matter. Eyewitness accounts matter.

That’s the faulty logic.

Florial isn’t a perfect prospect - he’d be top 10 with his speed/power combo and defense if his hit tool was t a little suspect - but he’ll be a top 100 guy and right back into the top 25-30 if he’s healthy and performs.

Regardless, the original assertion - that he was Billy Hamilton - is incredibly off base.

[jd1020]

We'll see I guess.

I haven't seen anyone rate him as the 50/60 rating you claimed he had. I've only seen one person write about a possible 30-30 player, aided by Yankees stadium.

Nothing he has shown so far in A+ suggests he has plus power with above average hit skills.

Wont surprise me at all if he ends up like Jake Marisnick.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by jd1020

We'll see I guess.



I haven't seen anyone rate him as the 50/60 rating you claimed he had. I've only seen one person write about a possible 30-30 player, aided by Yankees stadium.



Nothing he has shown so far in A+ suggests he has plus power with above average hit skills.



Wont surprise me at all if he ends up like Jake Marisnick.

Nothing he has shown?

How about the .303/.368/.461 slash he ran there at age 19? That’s showing “something,” and was coming off a similar slash line at A.

Saying he’s a 50/60 FV doesn’t mean it’s present now. Just means that the eyewitness accounts sees the projection for it. Callis put a 55 on his power and 45 on his hit before this season. You can find that on Mlb.com

Baseball Prospectus had him at 60 power/50 hit. And out of all the rankings systems, they’re typically the best at projection (Baseball America is a little lazy and favors higher level prospects with more track record).

[BigRedChief]

From the ESPN story:

Longtime Cardinals catcher Yadier Molina said he'd "welcome the opportunity" if he had a chance to be player-manager during his last contract year with St. Louis in 2020.

"For any player, that would be a dream to be considered for such a role," Molina told ESPN's Marly Rivera. "It would be a dream. I'm not shutting the door to anything. I am very open. Of course, maybe I would like to spend some time with my family first. But if such an opportunity comes up, obviously I would accept it."

[DJ's left nut]

**** that.

[jd1020]

I wonder how bad Yadier playing his favorites would be compared to Matheny.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by jd1020

I wonder how bad Yadier playing his favorites would be compared to Matheny.

I don't expect it could be any worse.

My biggest issue is the same one I have with a head coach trying to be an OC. There are way too many responsibilities for 2 people to do those 2 jobs at their absolute peak. It's impossible for 1 person to give adequate time/energy to both.

If Molina were to try to be the manager and would dedicate all the time necessary to that job to ensure that he's well versed in everything he needs to know, it would take away from some of the things he needs to do to maintain as an elite catcher, especially as he ages.

Or if he were to continue to work on his game on the field, it would hinder his ability to give the managers job everything he has.

Yadi's a smart cat and a hard worker, but he's not so smart that he can half-ass two jobs and still expect to be great at them.

Player managers are a bygone relic of an era when money was tight and owners needed to squeeze out every thin red dime they could from their roster (and generate as much fan interest as possible). BDW doesn't have that problem. His team is 4th at the gate and 1st in TV ratings in a season that has sucked by any reasonable measure. Moreover, he's a billionaire - spend the money and get a manager.

Player coaches are just nostalgia run amok.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

.

Player coaches are just nostalgia run amok.

I agree its a BS idea.

Molina is obviously thinking of managing post career. I still think Molina will manage the Cardinals someday. Which will eventually suck because we will have to fire him at some point.

[Miles]

The last player manager I can recall is Pete Rose from seeing it on 80s baseball cards. Completely agree it’s not a very solid idea to have someone do two jobs where each should be getting their full time attention.

[Miles]

Hopefully some of this Dusty Baker stuff being floated is just from him being an experienced manager available versus actual interest.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Miles

Hopefully some of this Dusty Baker stuff being floated is just from him being an experienced manager available versus actual interest.

I'm sure it is BS. What did he do well in Washington? Chicago?

I thought maybe Giraldi but then I read why he was fired from the Yankees. Same reasons Matheny was let go. Why bring in someone with the same issues?

I'd bet that if the team responds to Shildt the rest of the way, he will be given the job.