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Old 11-13-2022, 12:04 AM  
Hammock Parties Hammock Parties is offline
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****OFFICIAL Chiefs vs Jaguars GDT****
Maybe he's born with it.

Maybe it's maybelline.

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Old 11-14-2022, 08:53 AM   #2161
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Speaking generally, it seems a lot of people think any mistake on the field from a unit stems from coaching.

I think players make plays.

There are certain decisions that can certainly be blamed on the coaches, but like 90% of the issues I saw yesterday, I wouldn't blame on Toub.

I don't blame Toub for the surprise onside kick that no one expects, giving up some long returns to one of the best returners in the league, Butker missing a PAT, or Fortson fumbling.
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Old 11-14-2022, 08:54 AM   #2162
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Originally Posted by ThaVirus View Post
I'm not sure if you were in the GDT, but that post DJ quoted was directed toward a post of mine.

A lot of people were complaining of the terrible coaching job Toub did yesterday, but I argued that most of the issues were moreso players making stupid/bad plays than anything related to coaching.

I'm kind of curious how a botched coin toss can be blamed on Toub. Is he even involved in any of that whatsoever?
If it were one game, sure.

But whats the saying? "You're either coaching it or you're letting it happen.
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Old 11-14-2022, 08:55 AM   #2163
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Originally Posted by ThaVirus View Post
Speaking generally, it seems a lot of people think any mistake on the field from a unit stems from coaching.

I think players make plays.

There are certain decisions that can certainly be blamed on the coaches, but like 90% of the issues I saw yesterday, I wouldn't blame on Toub.

I don't blame Toub for the surprise onside kick that no one expects, giving up some long returns to one of the best returners in the league, Butker missing a PAT, or Fortson fumbling.
Exactly. Nobody even notices coaching if the players execute. Coaching is so overrated sometimes.
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Old 11-14-2022, 08:55 AM   #2164
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The other thing that can be on Toub is the reminder to watch for on onside kick and not leave the ten yard line too early. Yes players are at fault but it is a coaches job to always remind about those things due to how important it ends up being.

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A surprise onside kick like that is extremely rare and not something that'll show up on film/tendencies.

At that point, you'd literally need to say "hey, watch out for the onside!" on every single kickoff. Players just need to know it could come at any time.
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Old 11-14-2022, 08:55 AM   #2165
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Uhh, why wouldn't you blame him for the returns? Butker can easily kick it out of the end zone for a touchback, yet we're kicking it to just outside the goal line and forcing returns. You think that isn't Toub instructing him to do that?
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Old 11-14-2022, 08:56 AM   #2166
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Uhh, why wouldn't you blame him for the returns? Butker can easily kick it out of the end zone for a touchback, yet we're kicking it to just outside the goal line and forcing returns.
Do you think Butler was intentionally kicking it short because Toub told him to? Come on, man.
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Old 11-14-2022, 08:57 AM   #2167
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
Do you think Butler was intentionally kicking it short because Toub told him to? Come on, man.
Uhh, yes? He's placing it JUST outside the goal line to force returns.
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Old 11-14-2022, 08:59 AM   #2168
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If it were one game, sure.

But whats the saying? "You're either coaching it or you're letting it happen.
Yeah, but Toub might get his pick of, what, like three or four players on the entire roster? A lot of what a special teams coach does is working with what he's given.

And when dudes are consistently missing PATs, muffing punts, fumbling on kickoffs fighting for an extra 2 yards with 5 seconds until half.. I mean, idk. He simply doesn't have a large enough pool of players to bench guys for ****ing up.

I'm not absolving him of all blame, by the way. I'm specifically talking about yesterday's game.
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Old 11-14-2022, 09:01 AM   #2169
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Uhh, why wouldn't you blame him for the returns? Butker can easily kick it out of the end zone for a touchback, yet we're kicking it to just outside the goal line and forcing returns. You think that isn't Toub instructing him to do that?
Our kick coverage is pretty good. I have no issue with trying to pin a bad offense deep into their own territory.

I'd have given up on that plan before Toub did yesterday, but giving them an extra 5, 10, 15 yards of field position a few times wasn't a game breaking issue, IMO.
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Old 11-14-2022, 09:05 AM   #2170
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It's been a continuing problem all year, not just a one off.

By that thought process, nothing is a coaches fault. He's not making said play or dropping said ball etc.
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Old 11-14-2022, 09:07 AM   #2171
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Originally Posted by ThaVirus View Post
Speaking generally, it seems a lot of people think any mistake on the field from a unit stems from coaching.

I think players make plays.

There are certain decisions that can certainly be blamed on the coaches, but like 90% of the issues I saw yesterday, I wouldn't blame on Toub.

I don't blame Toub for the surprise onside kick that no one expects, giving up some long returns to one of the best returners in the league, Butker missing a PAT, or Fortson fumbling.
Didn't you know that Spags is also personally responsible for every blown coverage and missed tackle as if he designed the defense that way?
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Old 11-14-2022, 09:08 AM   #2172
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
Do you think Butler was intentionally kicking it short because Toub told him to? Come on, man.
Yea. Jax did it to us several times as well.
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Old 11-14-2022, 09:09 AM   #2173
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Uhh, yes? He's placing it JUST outside the goal line to force returns.
Butker recently commented on the change he made to his kickoffs. He is now using a five step approach rather than his previous ten step, in order to keep from reinjuring his ankle. He is not generating as much power and therefore kicking it shorter. You can thank the AZ shitass field for that
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Old 11-14-2022, 09:15 AM   #2174
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Butker recently commented on the change he made to his kickoffs. He is now using a five step approach rather than his previous ten step, in order to keep from reinjuring his ankle. He is not generating as much power and therefore kicking it shorter. You can thank the AZ shitass field for that
Still managed to kick it deep into the end zone every kick in the 2nd half. Because Toub finally adjusted.
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Old 11-14-2022, 09:15 AM   #2175
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Uhh, yes? He's placing it JUST outside the goal line to force returns.
HC beat me to it.

Butler, in his own words, adjusted his start to avoid reinjuring his ankle. No ankle injury, no short kickoffs. It's that simple.
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