Have you ever used steroids, HGH, etc.?

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

People get pissed off about this subject, and I can't figure out why.

I think it's a stereo type issue. I'm getting the impression people view all users as guys like Jersey Shore douche bags, when in reality every day people with every day jobs like security guards, cops, firemen, teachers and computer programmers. I like my gym members better than your average guy walking the street. I can relate more to people that are busting their ass(yes even users bust their ass) and trying to better themselves then some slob at a bar stool. From my experience most of the guys I know in the gym and very cool guys and love helping out the novice lifters, but maybe that is just more of the midwest values. There is a level of respect given to each other.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

I think it's a stereo type issue.

But who gives a shit? Some dude wants to look and feel a little better, so he uses HGH... Why would that piss off a complete stranger?

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

But who gives a shit? Some dude wants to look and feel a little better, so he uses HGH... Why would that piss off a complete stranger?

Ahh, I see. That's usually jealousy to a point and again it's perceived that they might be attention whores even if that's not the case. I see hard work and dedication even if chemically enhanced, but I saw Hamas used the term "lazy" earlier and those guys are anything but so there is a perception problem. I busted my ass before TRT and I bust my ass after TRT I just now see better results. Walking 45 minutes on a step mill is damn tough no matter what you are taking.

[Carlota69]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

Ahh, I see. That's usually jealousy to a point and again it's perceived that they might be attention whores even if that's not the case. I see hard work and dedication even if chemically enhanced, but I saw Hamas used the term "lazy" earlier and those guys are anything but so there is a perception problem. I busted my ass before TRT and I bust my ass after TRT I just now see better results. Walking 45 minutes on a step mill is damn tough no matter what you are taking.

Right? As if you just inject it and sit on the couch and the shit works...lol

[Carlota69]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

I think it's a stereo type issue. I'm getting the impression people view all users as guys like Jersey Shore douche bags, when in reality every day people with every day jobs like security guards, cops, firemen, teachers and computer programmers. I like my gym members better than your average guy walking the street. I can relate more to people that are busting their ass(yes even users bust their ass) and trying to better themselves then some slob at a bar stool. From my experience most of the guys I know in the gym and very cool guys and love helping out the novice lifters, but maybe that is just more of the midwest values. There is a level of respect given to each other.

Lots of stereotyping when it comes to this subject for sure.

[Carlota69]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

People get pissed off about this subject, and I can't figure out why.

Our football has sucked for too long...people are testy these days.

[salame]

[lewdog]

Some great info in this thread. Really surprised we have a handful of juicers here. So fed up with the bullshit that anyone who takes steroids is cheating. It won't make you elite anything and won't work nearly what it should if your training and diet isn't in check already. I have never jumped in the waters but have nothing against those who do. Most people who call it cheating for average joe's to use are just haters rooting for everyone else to fail so they themselves feel better.

I won't mess with any of it until after I have kids, if I even choose to do so. But after that, I could give two shits how my balls hang or if my boys can even swim.

[Fish]

There's a good sized study being done right now, should have results in a few years...

http://rt5.cceb.upenn.edu/portal/pag...PublicPageMain

Are Testosterone Supplements Worth the Risk?

A study published in the New England Journal of Medicine raised another potential risk: cardiovascular problems. The study tracked 200 men age 65 and older whose health concerns included difficulty walking and high blood pressure. The patients were prescribed a testosterone gel, which delivered significant improvement in their ability to lift weights and climb stairs, compared to men using a placebo. But the men also had four times the risk of chest pain, heart attack and stroke. The incidence of cardiovascular ailments was so high that the trial was called to a halt.

Given the apparently expanding list of known testosterone supplement risks, are they worth the trouble?

Geriatrician Thomas Gill, director of the Yale School of Medicine’s Program on Aging, is not ready to give up on the supplements. “It would be sending the wrong message if the recommendation is that all men stop treatment because of this study,” he says. He points out that it was the first (and, so far, only) trial to show an association between testosterone gel and heart problems. Moreover, the research was on a relatively small number of especially frail men who were given unusually high doses of the hormone. “If I were an older male without prior cardiovascular disease,” he says, “I wouldn’t lose much sleep over this one study.”

Detecting a link between testosterone gel and cardiovascular disease was not the mission of the New England Journal of Medicine study, but it raised enough questions that other researchers are now investigating it directly. Gill and his research team are working with the National Institutes of Health on a larger study of 800 men, known as “The T Trial,” designed to examine the effects of testosterone on the heart. “We are setting things up to carefully evaluate the cardiovascular effects of testosterone,” he says, adding that he will have results in about three years.

But Dr. Shalender Bhasin, chief of endocrinology at Boston University School of Medicine and a co-author of the New England Journal of Medicine study, believes we know enough already to at least consider testosterone supplements with a more critical eye. Doctors already know, for example, that water retention, which can put a strain on the heart and is associated with blood clots and tissue inflammation, is a potential side effect. So the link to cardiovascular disease is not especially surprising.

In general, Bhasin says, doctors should give more information to patients considering the treatments. For example, he says, "doctors don’t tell you that testosterone supplements may end up a long-term proposition." When men begin using a supplement, he explains, they typically lose the ability to create testosterone on their own. So if a health problem should arise that forces them to stop taking the supplements, it may take months or years to recover the ability to create adequate levels of testosterone naturally, during which time they may experience withdrawal symptoms like poor mood and low vitality.

“I find it very distressing that testosterone is used in middle-aged men — when we don’t know whether it’s even safe — for something that may be a normal physiologic adaptive mechanism to aging," he says.

Both experts agree that men with a history of heart attack or stroke should steer clear of testosterone supplements. They also agree that there are scenarios in which the benefits of testosterone therapy nearly always outweigh the risks, like hypogonadism, a disease in which the body produces little or no hormone due to poorly functioning testes or pituitary or hypothalamus glands.

Many men report feeling stronger and more vital, and thinking more clearly, on testosterone supplements. That may make it worth the risk if your testosterone count is low. But you should also give some thought to why you're pursuing a supplement, and its risks, despite what the late-night commercials promise.

Full article: http://www.nextavenue.org/article/20...nts-worth-risk

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by lewdog

Some great info in this thread. Really surprised we have a handful of juicers here. So fed up with the bullshit that anyone who takes steroids is cheating.

I believe they're cheating only if the rule book says they're cheating.

When McGuire and Sosa broke the home run record, they weren't cheating because it hadn't been deemed illegal by MLB.

Same goes for Bonds. I was at the Dodgers game when he was stuck on 714. I wanted to see history. I went the following night, only to see him hitless again. The very next night in San Diego, he tied Hank Aaron and broke the record thereafter.

I should have gone to San Diego.

That said, if some of the league is using performance enhancing drugs and some aren't, it doesn't make for a very level playing field. I'd prefer it to be either completely illegal or completely legal.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I believe they're cheating only if the rule book says they're cheating.

When McGuire and Sosa broke the home run record, they weren't cheating because it hadn't been deemed illegal by MLB.

Same goes for Bonds. I was at the Dodgers game when he was stuck on 714. I wanted to see history. I went the following night, only to see him hitless again. The very next night in San Diego, he tied Hank Aaron and broke the record thereafter.

I should have gone to San Diego.

That said, if some of the league is using performance enhancing drugs and some aren't, it doesn't make for a very level playing field. I'd prefer it to be either completely illegal or completely legal.

Yea great logic Dane except you are dead wrong. Steroids were banned by MLB in 1991.

A quick Google search will confirm that for you.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Yea great logic Dane except you are dead wrong. Steroids were banned by MLB in 1991.

A quick Google search will confirm that for you.

It doesn't matter that MLB banned steroids. The Cardinals, Cubs, and Giants didn't have team rules against them, so it was perfectly legal.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

It doesn't matter that MLB banned steroids. The Cardinals, Cubs, and Giants didn't have team rules against them, so it was perfectly legal.

Medicinal use only.

If they needed to focus they could also smoke some weed.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Yea great logic Dane except you are dead wrong.

That seems to be a theme in this thread. I don't think he has acknowledged some steroids are legal.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Yea great logic Dane except you are dead wrong. Steroids were banned by MLB in 1991.

A quick Google search will confirm that for you.

And if MLB was concerned with upholding that ban, why did they fail to randomly and frequently test for steroids? Jose Canseco said that as many as 80% of the league was juicing, yet he was laughed at by outsiders.

And why did they look the other way when it was obvious to everyone that McGuire, Bonds and Sosa were clearly juicing, along with numerous other players?

The fact is that MLB didn't give a crap until the Feds became interested in 2005. THEN it became a big deal and in 2006, after their own investigations, did eating and bans begin.