KU MU T-Shirt war

[irishjayhawk]

(image removed by request of alleged copyright holder pending confirmation)

You know what the best part of Kansas and Missouri having their best ever seasons at the very same time is? The entire nation will get exposed to what is possibly the most bitter and hateful rivalry in the country in all it's glory (or shame, if you prefer). You can have your Ohio State v. Michigan or Alabama v. Auburn, but the last time I checked nobody from Columbus ever went to Ann Arbor and systematically executed every man they could find while burning the town to the ground. And certainly nobody made t-shirts later celebrating that fact.

But that did happen in 1863 in Lawrence, KS when William Quantrill led his band of "Bushwackers" to the "Jayhawker" stronghold and went on a 4 hour rampage that would become known as the "Lawrence Massacre" - one of the ugliest episodes of the brutal 10+ years of fighting along the Kansas and Missouri border. While the Civil War has become the South v. the North in most people's minds, the fighting in fact began as a violent guerrilla conflict between the abolitionists in Kansas and the slave holding Missouri settlers (more or less, like many guerrilla campaigns there were quite blurred lines at times). In many ways, those old wounds have never quite healed - Grandpa Simpson will be be deep in the cold, cold ground before he recognizes Missour-ah as a state, for example.

Those t-shirts seen above that some Missouri fans are making for the showdown at Arrowhead in two weeks are celebrating the Lawrence Massacre and in fact have Quantrill's visage and slogan emblazoned on the back - "Raise the Black Flag and Ride Hard Boys. Our Cause is Just and Our Enemies Many". Talk about going straight past normal levels of fan behavior and making a hard right turn into loony land, that might be the single most offensive gameday t-shirt I've ever seen. Kansas fans are now responding with t-shirts sporting noted violent Kansas abolitionist John Brown (who led a massacre of his own and the 1859 Harper's Ferry raid that really kicked off the Civil War powder keg) with the slogan "Keeping America Safe From Missouri Since 1854" - a mock-up of those t-shirts can be seen here.

This game is going to be played on a neutral site at Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City - home to huge parking lots for tailgating and beer sales in the stadium during the game. It's going to be for a berth in the Big XII Championship Game at the very least, and a shot at the National Championship at the most. Liquored up fans sharing the same parking lots and stadium, some who are celebrating their history of brutal violence against each other? Two fanbases who hate each other, with the chance to not only continue their own dream season but also to end the chance of glory for their rivals? Yeah, no way that doesn't end up without at least a few folks in the slammer. It's going to be a fun Saturday for the KCPD and Jackson County Sheriffs.

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/...to-the-ground/

[Bob Dole]

Originally Posted by SPchief

Kyle Hudson
2813 NW Kingsridge Dr
Blue Springs, MO 64015
[email protected]



whoops

Please stop being mean to Mr. Hudson. Bob Dole is pretty sure he has feelings, too.

[Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan]

Originally Posted by Bob Dole

Wow. What an awful oversight. That's a serious mistake.

Bob Dole apologizes for the oversight. Bob Dole just wanted to let the general membership know why the initial post was edited, because we try to maintain an open community here.

Any time we don't maintain an open forum, things tend to deteriorate, and copyrights begin to get infringed. And then people start tossing around threats about lawsuits, and then things just get really silly, and then moderators poop their pants in fear over email threats, and then it just gets completely crazy because the moderators are carrying a fudgey, copyright infringing, pants-load of fear-induced baggage. And that's never a good thing, because almost anything could happen at that point.

So you can pretty much rest assured that Bob Dole will send an email to one of the moderators and ask that they whip up a batch of vinegar and water that they can use to flush away anything that might be irritating your manginal lining.

Bob,

He's actually right.

Using the image without permission is a violation of copyright. And he doesn't have to have a registered copyright with the Library of Congress to have the copyright. It falls under copyright as soon as it is created (whether electronically or put in a tangible form (paper, cloth, sculpture, film, whatever).

He could have put it better, but Irishjayhawk was wrong.

Posting his personal information is worse than wrong. It's abusing your position as mod.

Sorry to spoil the fun.

Not that you're going to listen to me anyway.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan

Bob,

He's actually right.

Using the image without permission is a violation of copyright. And he doesn't have to have a registered copyright with the Library of Congress to have the copyright. It falls under copyright as soon as it is created (whether electronically or put in a tangible form (paper, cloth, sculpture, film, whatever).

He could have put it better, but Irishjayhawk was wrong.

Posting his personal information is worse than wrong. It's abusing your position as mod.

Sorry to spoil the fun.

Not that you're going to listen to me anyway.

He never offered a shred of proof, and also behaved like an utter sniveling bitch.

I'll sue.

fuck him.

[siberian khatru]

Originally Posted by Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan

Bob,

He's actually right.

Using the image without permission is a violation of copyright. And he doesn't have to have a registered copyright with the Library of Congress to have the copyright. It falls under copyright as soon as it is created (whether electronically or put in a tangible form (paper, cloth, sculpture, film, whatever).

He could have put it better, but Irishjayhawk was wrong.

Posting his personal information is worse than wrong. It's abusing your position as mod.

Sorry to spoil the fun.

Not that you're going to listen to me anyway.

If he wears that shirt in public, and the Star takes a photo of it at Arrowhead and publishes it in the paper the next day, is that a copyright infringement?

[DMAC]

I hope a KU fan beats up Kyle Hudson.

[Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan]

Originally Posted by siberian khatru

If he wears that shirt in public, and the Star takes a photo of it at Arrowhead and publishes it in the paper the next day, is that a copyright infringement?

Nope, although if they take his picture, they are supposed to get a release allowing them to use the picture. Or at least, they did when I was doing reporting (pictures of the players is considered fair use due to the fact that "they're performing for a paying audience" - pictures of the fans used to require a release since the paper was using their images to make money for itself. Otherwise they could be sued. Don't know how much that's followed these days, I don't keep up with journalism law since I don't work as a journalist these days.)

Copyright law is if you create it, you own it for life + 70 years (IIRC). Still, I think the initial post might have fallen under the "fair use" clause since it was originally posted for the purposes of review. It's the same way that newspapers, magazines and web sites can post "short excerpts" of novels and pictures of the cover. It, in effect is free advertising.

However, for example, if an author believes a web site has posted more than is necessary for review purposes (like say the first three chapters of their book - or the big reveal at the end of a thriller), they can (and should) approach the site and ask them to redact or remove the work. If they refuse, that's usually where lawyers make their money.

Now, could Kyle have approached the moderators in a better manner than coming out swinging the lawyer stick. Absolutely. It was a pretty clueless move when it could have been handled more amicably.

But, if he does own the copyright, (and unless someone has evidence stating otherwise, why would he open himself up for this if he didn't?), he has the right to ask for the photographs to be removed. And posting his personal information on a BB like this is pretty bush league in my opinion.

[SPchief]

Originally Posted by Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan

Bob,

He's actually right.

Using the image without permission is a violation of copyright. And he doesn't have to have a registered copyright with the Library of Congress to have the copyright. It falls under copyright as soon as it is created (whether electronically or put in a tangible form (paper, cloth, sculpture, film, whatever).

He could have put it better, but Irishjayhawk was wrong.

Posting his personal information is worse than wrong. It's abusing your position as mod.

Sorry to spoil the fun.

Not that you're going to listen to me anyway.

So posting this:

Kyle Hudson
2813 NW Kingsridge Dr
Blue Springs, MO 64015
[email protected]


is wrong?

[Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan]

Welcome to CPIggy

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan

Welcome to CPIggy

Who?

[|Zach|]

Originally Posted by Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan

Nope, although if they take his picture, they are supposed to get a release allowing them to use the picture. Or at least, they did when I was doing reporting (pictures of the players is considered fair use due to the fact that "they're performing for a paying audience" - pictures of the fans used to require a release since the paper was using their images to make money for itself. Otherwise they could be sued. Don't know how much that's followed these days, I don't keep up with journalism law since I don't work as a journalist these days.)

Copyright law is if you create it, you own it for life + 70 years (IIRC). Still, I think the initial post might have fallen under the "fair use" clause since it was originally posted for the purposes of review. It's the same way that newspapers, magazines and web sites can post "short excerpts" of novels and pictures of the cover. It, in effect is free advertising.

However, for example, if an author believes a web site has posted more than is necessary for review purposes (like say the first three chapters of their book - or the big reveal at the end of a thriller), they can (and should) approach the site and ask them to redact or remove the work. If they refuse, that's usually where lawyers make their money.

Now, could Kyle have approached the moderators in a better manner than coming out swinging the lawyer stick. Absolutely. It was a pretty clueless move when it could have been handled more amicably.

But, if he does own the copyright, (and unless someone has evidence stating otherwise, why would he open himself up for this if he didn't?), he has the right to ask for the photographs to be removed. And posting his personal information on a BB like this is pretty bush league in my opinion.

Eh, kind of. The picture of the person wasn't a problem. If you could see the person? That is another story. Since the person is not uniquely identifiable a release is not in order. Kind of like taking a picture of a crowd. You can't get model releases for the whole group of people, nobody can know who anyone is. Taking a picture of the shirt itself shouldn't be a problem unless that person has a reasonable expectation to privacy, which doesn't seem to be the case. But all of that and a lot of what you wrote has to do with the liability of the photographer. Which really isn't up for debate.

Now. Kyle being the owner of the picture and it being posted is another story. He hasn't shown that he has any right to it. Maybe he does? I don't know. Show me.

[SPchief]

Originally Posted by frazod

Who?

I would think he is refering to me. But I don't understand why.

[StcChief]

the T-shirt wars are sure to garner a few "incidents" at Arrowhead lot/stadium on Sat.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan

And posting his personal information on a BB like this is pretty bush league in my opinion.

Why? He is not breaking any laws by posting that information. Email communications are not protected.

[bobbything]

I didn't read every single page of this, however, I got the Cliff's Notes. And maybe someone already mentioned this...

What I find ironic is that this guy is quoting copyright laws, yet there's no possible way, no way on earth, he got licensing from MU to use their logo on that shirt.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Why? He is not breaking any laws by posting that information. Email communications are not protected.

And much like American Hero before him, this guy was begging for abuse.