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Old 07-29-2009, 11:37 AM  
kcbubb kcbubb is offline
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To the Herm haters.
I'm tired of all the blame going to Herm. Yes, Herm had his share of blunders but the amount of hate that he gets is ridiculous. The biggest mistake that Herm made was underestimating the impact of Jared Allen. And I did too at the time. In 2007, the Chiefs almost had a top 10 defense despite their terrible offense. We know what happened in 2008. But we are quick to forget the defense of 2007. I'm not saying the Herm was a great coach, but he is not as bad as some here believe.

Just to irritate you, lets take a look at what might have been if Herm had stuck around.

-First the acquisition of Cassell never happens. Herm sticks with Thigpen and Gailey runs the system that worked well in the latter half of the season.

-The switch to the 3-4 never happens and the Chiefs continue to run a 4-3 defense.

-Most likely, no notable free agents are picked up.

-Tony Gonzalez remains with the Chiefs.

-The draft rolls around and Herm takes the safe route as usual and picks the following players:

1. Aaron Curry
2. Everette Brown (Herm likes this pick bc of the desperate need for a pass rusher to replace Jared Allen who was lost in 07 and the success of another small DE Dwight Freeney with the Colts where his role model Tony Dungy coached.)
3. Antione Caldwell (Mal Moore leadership award winner is drafted here) Herm kinda player. And can play all line positions but primarily C or G.
4. Louis Murphy (Herm picks a wide out for the needed depth and Murphy provide some speed.)
5. Jasper Brinkley (Tough middle linebacker probably starts.)
6. Andrew Gardner (RT tackle pushes or replaces McIntosh)
7. Captain Munnerlyn (CB and returner)
7. Ricky Jean-Francois (depth at DT)
7. Ryan Succop K


And to top it off. After speaking with Tony Dungy about Michael Vick, who has been mentoring Vick, Herm trusts Dungy and decides to give Vick a shot at backing up Tyler Thigpen.


Would all of this happened... probably not, but it is interesting to think about what might have been if Herm and Carl would have stayed. Again, I don't think Herm is great and I definitely don't think Carl was good, but I do wonder what might have happened. I do like the draft above much better than our current one, and I do like that we still would have Tony G.
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:12 AM   #211
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He should have retired as a career-long Chief.
Yeah, kinda like Shannon "Horseface-Elway Brutha-from-another-mutha" Sharpe should have retired as a career-long donk.
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:12 AM   #212
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I think Gonzalez got traded because he would scoff at some of these things they are doing...
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:15 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by T-post Tom View Post
Yeah, kinda like Shannon "Horseface-Elway Brutha-from-another-mutha" Sharpe should have retired as a career-long donk.
Yep. I agree.
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:15 AM   #214
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I'd really like for you to show me where Herm wanted to tear it down year one and was overruled by Carl. I want direct quotes here because I've never, ever heard that except for bullshit conspiracy theories. I don't think Carl wanted to tear it down, but I sure as hell don't think Herm did either.

Herman Edwards has NEVER built a football team on his own that was successful. Ever. He inherited Parcells and Al Groh's leftovers. He left the Jets in a mess just like he left the Chiefs.

What exactly was he building with the Chiefs? They were the worst second half team I have ever seen. He went through QB's like water. He never, ever had a functional defensive gameplan. The playoff game that he lucked into showed how truly stubborn of an idiot he is.

So the GM hired Herm's assistants? Is that what you are telling me? Herm wanted Gunther in NY before the 2004 season.

It just has to ****ing stop already. Herm is a massive failure, who was praised for his ability to build a defense because of his "Tampa connections" and this defense was pure dogshit with the players he acquired. In Herm's first ****ing game at Arrowhead, he decides to basically piss all over the see of red and wear white. It wasn't a hot day, there wasn't ridiculous humidity. He just changed for the sake of change.

If you are a Chiefs fan, and you defend that asshole or are sorry to see him go, please burn all your Chiefs shit and find a new team so we can have every single dark cloud away from this ****ing team and fanbase. Thank you.


Damn. Just damn.

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Old 07-31-2009, 12:17 AM   #215
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I think Gonzalez got traded because he would scoff at some of these things they are doing...
He gets to coach later, maybe. For now he's a player.
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:20 AM   #216
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I think Gonzalez got traded because he would scoff at some of these things they are doing...
They found Dick Cheney's fingerprints on the detonation plunger used to bring down the Challenger space shuttle, too.

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Old 07-31-2009, 12:21 AM   #217
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Yep. I agree.
I know your "style." [Cue Chinese music.]

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Old 07-31-2009, 12:26 AM   #218
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I know your "style..."
I think I like it...
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:08 PM   #219
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I'd really like for you to show me where Herm wanted to tear it down year one and was overruled by Carl. I want direct quotes here because I've never, ever heard that except for bullshit conspiracy theories. I don't think Carl wanted to tear it down, but I sure as hell don't think Herm did either.
Sorry, my internet connection sucks right now so this is the quote that I can quickly reference:
"There was reportedly a deep philosophical divide between former Chiefs GM and President Carl Peterson and coach Herm Edwards. The two got along at first, but Herm's desire to rebuild was met at every step with resistance from Peterson. Chairman Clark Hunt sided with Herm in the offseason, but his upcoming GM hire may still want his own coach in place. Edwards' future remains very up in the air, but another year would not surprise."

Add on to the fact that Clark Hunt gave every vote of confidence to Herm Edwards, but fired Carl Peterson before the season even ended. He even tried to convince Pioli to consider keeping Herm. I think we all agree by now that Clark Hunt is good at what he does. I thought I also once read that Herm was so frustrated with Peterson that he started to voice his complaints directly to Hunt. The way Peterson's firing went down... it sounds like Hunt is very sympathetic to what Herm Edwards went through. But what does Clark Hunt know? I mean, he's only the owner.

Quote:
Herman Edwards has NEVER built a football team on his own that was successful. Ever. He inherited Parcells and Al Groh's leftovers. He left the Jets in a mess just like he left the Chiefs.
It's not like Parcells and Groh gave him a whole lot to work with. And it leaves out the point that the GM of the Jets was Terry Bradway, who is a notorious ****-up and a student of the Carl Peterson school of hard knocks. Besides, if he left the Jets in such a horrible state of disrepair, then why did that team make the playoffs the next season when they got a healthy Pennington back?

Quote:
What exactly was he building with the Chiefs? They were the worst second half team I have ever seen. He went through QB's like water. He never, ever had a functional defensive gameplan. The playoff game that he lucked into showed how truly stubborn of an idiot he is.
Again, I don't dispute that he was a horrible gameday coach. But in that statement, you're mixing in his personnel side from his gameday side. On the personnel side, he did a pretty decent job and a lot of NFL analysts seemed to think so too. Pretty remarkable, given that Peterson bled the team dry and gave Herm almost no money to play with. Out of the draft alone, Herm brought in Bowe, Albert, Leggett, Flowers, Charles, Cox, Dorsey, Page... arguably Carr, Pollard, Turk, and Tank. From the personnel side, I thought he did a pretty decent job, given how little he was allowed to work with.

Quote:
So the GM hired Herm's assistants? Is that what you are telling me? Herm wanted Gunther in NY before the 2004 season.
Hiring on all fronts is done by the GM. The coach usually has input. There is no excuse whatsoever for Carl Peterson to not at least brought in outside candidates for interview. And Peterson has a loooooonnnngggg track record of doing that. Vermeil, Herm, Solari, Gun, and Gun again were all hired without interviewing a single candidate (except for one token minority candidate).

Quote:
It just has to ****ing stop already. Herm is a massive failure, who was praised for his ability to build a defense because of his "Tampa connections" and this defense was pure dogshit with the players he acquired. In Herm's first ****ing game at Arrowhead, he decides to basically piss all over the see of red and wear white. It wasn't a hot day, there wasn't ridiculous humidity. He just changed for the sake of change.
It has to stop that people exaggerate how bad Herm was. Herm was a flawed gameday coach, but he made some really good moves on the personnel side and it's clear to everyone but KC fans that he wasn't given the power to do what he wanted to do.

Quote:
If you are a Chiefs fan, and you defend that asshole or are sorry to see him go, please burn all your Chiefs shit and find a new team so we can have every single dark cloud away from this ****ing team and fanbase. Thank you.
I never said I was sorry to see him go. But I am sorry that he had to go like this, with people blaming him for a lot of shit that he isn't to blame for. Joe Posnanski summed it up pretty well here, even if it's overly long-winded:
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009...-win-the-game/
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:12 PM   #220
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He even tried to convince Pioli to consider keeping Herm. I think we all agree by now that Clark Hunt is good at what he does.
Link?
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:12 PM   #221
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blows my mind, how much chiefs fans love failure.....
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:17 PM   #222
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I'd really like for you to show me where Herm wanted to tear it down year one and was overruled by Carl. I want direct quotes here because I've never, ever heard that except for bullshit conspiracy theories. I don't think Carl wanted to tear it down, but I sure as hell don't think Herm did either.

Herman Edwards has NEVER built a football team on his own that was successful. Ever. He inherited Parcells and Al Groh's leftovers. He left the Jets in a mess just like he left the Chiefs.

What exactly was he building with the Chiefs? They were the worst second half team I have ever seen. He went through QB's like water. He never, ever had a functional defensive gameplan. The playoff game that he lucked into showed how truly stubborn of an idiot he is.

So the GM hired Herm's assistants? Is that what you are telling me? Herm wanted Gunther in NY before the 2004 season.

It just has to ****ing stop already. Herm is a massive failure, who was praised for his ability to build a defense because of his "Tampa connections" and this defense was pure dogshit with the players he acquired. In Herm's first ****ing game at Arrowhead, he decides to basically piss all over the see of red and wear white. It wasn't a hot day, there wasn't ridiculous humidity. He just changed for the sake of change.

If you are a Chiefs fan, and you defend that asshole or are sorry to see him go, please burn all your Chiefs shit and find a new team so we can have every single dark cloud away from this ****ing team and fanbase. Thank you.
Perfect.

Carl was stubborn and misguided. He was outmoded in today's NFL and a poor evaluator of talent, particularly talent among candidates for the coaching staff. He favored loyalty over performance and was never willing to take risks or jeopardize what he had in hand to try to get something better. If the NFL were a poker game, Carl would have folded every hand until the ante had eaten his whole stack.

Herm was an incompetent. An invalid, a mental midget incapable at succeeding at anything. I do not bear Herm ill will for being incompetent. He simply has no business coaching a football team. Neither do I, but I'd give it a try if I had the chance too.
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:20 PM   #223
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I'd really like for you to show me where Herm wanted to tear it down year one and was overruled by Carl. I want direct quotes here because I've never, ever heard that except for bullshit conspiracy theories. I don't think Carl wanted to tear it down, but I sure as hell don't think Herm did either.

Herman Edwards has NEVER built a football team on his own that was successful. Ever. He inherited Parcells and Al Groh's leftovers. He left the Jets in a mess just like he left the Chiefs.

What exactly was he building with the Chiefs? They were the worst second half team I have ever seen. He went through QB's like water. He never, ever had a functional defensive gameplan. The playoff game that he lucked into showed how truly stubborn of an idiot he is.

So the GM hired Herm's assistants? Is that what you are telling me? Herm wanted Gunther in NY before the 2004 season.

It just has to ****ing stop already. Herm is a massive failure, who was praised for his ability to build a defense because of his "Tampa connections" and this defense was pure dogshit with the players he acquired. In Herm's first ****ing game at Arrowhead, he decides to basically piss all over the see of red and wear white. It wasn't a hot day, there wasn't ridiculous humidity. He just changed for the sake of change.

If you are a Chiefs fan, and you defend that asshole or are sorry to see him go, please burn all your Chiefs shit and find a new team so we can have every single dark cloud away from this ****ing team and fanbase. Thank you.
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:28 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Sorry, my internet connection sucks right now so this is the quote that I can quickly reference:
"There was reportedly a deep philosophical divide between former Chiefs GM and President Carl Peterson and coach Herm Edwards. The two got along at first, but Herm's desire to rebuild was met at every step with resistance from Peterson. Chairman Clark Hunt sided with Herm in the offseason, but his upcoming GM hire may still want his own coach in place. Edwards' future remains very up in the air, but another year would not surprise."

Add on to the fact that Clark Hunt gave every vote of confidence to Herm Edwards, but fired Carl Peterson before the season even ended. He even tried to convince Pioli to consider keeping Herm. I think we all agree by now that Clark Hunt is good at what he does. I thought I also once read that Herm was so frustrated with Peterson that he started to voice his complaints directly to Hunt. The way Peterson's firing went down... it sounds like Hunt is very sympathetic to what Herm Edwards went through. But what does Clark Hunt know? I mean, he's only the owner.


It's not like Parcells and Groh gave him a whole lot to work with. And it leaves out the point that the GM of the Jets was Terry Bradway, who is a notorious ****-up and a student of the Carl Peterson school of hard knocks. Besides, if he left the Jets in such a horrible state of disrepair, then why did that team make the playoffs the next season when they got a healthy Pennington back?


Again, I don't dispute that he was a horrible gameday coach. But in that statement, you're mixing in his personnel side from his gameday side. On the personnel side, he did a pretty decent job and a lot of NFL analysts seemed to think so too. Pretty remarkable, given that Peterson bled the team dry and gave Herm almost no money to play with. Out of the draft alone, Herm brought in Bowe, Albert, Leggett, Flowers, Charles, Cox, Dorsey, Page... arguably Carr, Pollard, Turk, and Tank. From the personnel side, I thought he did a pretty decent job, given how little he was allowed to work with.


Hiring on all fronts is done by the GM. The coach usually has input. There is no excuse whatsoever for Carl Peterson to not at least brought in outside candidates for interview. And Peterson has a loooooonnnngggg track record of doing that. Vermeil, Herm, Solari, Gun, and Gun again were all hired without interviewing a single candidate (except for one token minority candidate).


It has to stop that people exaggerate how bad Herm was. Herm was a flawed gameday coach, but he made some really good moves on the personnel side and it's clear to everyone but KC fans that he wasn't given the power to do what he wanted to do.


I never said I was sorry to see him go. But I am sorry that he had to go like this, with people blaming him for a lot of shit that he isn't to blame for. Joe Posnanski summed it up pretty well here, even if it's overly long-winded:
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009...-win-the-game/
Everyone already knows you're a mouth breathing idiot so you can stfu.
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:24 PM   #225
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Marty ALWAYS got us into the playoffs. And on Monday Night Football. He has more than 200 wins. We haven't won like that since he left. It will be a long time before we have another coach that good. I miss being feared like we were under Stram and Marty.



Marty can ****ing die in a burning aids bush...
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