*** Official Kansas City Royals @ San Francisco Giants World Series Game 4 Thread ***

[alnorth]

Final	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	R	H	E
KC	0	0	4	0	0	0	0	0	0	4	12	1
SF	1	0	1	0	2	3	4	0	X	11	16	0

Series Tied, 2-2



Jason Vargas 4IP 3R 3ER 2BB 3K
Jason Frasor ⅓IP 1R 1ER 0BB 0K
Danny Duffy ⅔IP 0R 0ER 1BB 1K
Loss Brandon Finnegan 1IP 5R 5ER 2BB 0K
Tim Collins 2IP 2R 2ER 1BB 2K

VS.



Ryan Vogelsong 2⅔IP 4R 4ER 1BB 2K
Jean Machi ⅓IP 0R 0ER 1BB 1K
Win Yusmeiro Petit 3IP 0R 0ER 0BB 2K
Hold Jeremy Affeldt 1IP 0R 0ER 0BB 1K
Sergio Romo 1IP 0R 0ER 0BB 1K
Hunter Strickland 1IP 0R 0ER 0BB 1K

Home Runs

none

Starting Lineups

KC

1. Alcides Escobar, SS
2. Alex Gordon, LF
3. Lorenzo Cain, RF
4. Eric Hosmer, 1B
5. Mike Moustakas, 3B
5. Tim Collins, P
6. Omar Infante, 2B
7. Salvador Perez, C
8. Jarrod Dyson, CF
9. Jason Vargas, P
9. Jason Frasor, P
9. Danny Duffy, P
9. Norichika Aoki, ph
9. Brandon Finnegan, P
9. Jayson Nix, 3B

SF

1. Gregor Blanco, CF
2. Joe Panik, 2B
3. Buster Posey, C
4. Hunter Pence, RF
5. Pablo Sandoval, 3B
6. Brandon Belt, 1B
7. Juan Perez, LF
8. Brandon Crawford, SS
9. Ryan Vogelsong, P
9. Jean Machi, P
9. Matt Duffy, ph
9. Yusmeiro Petit, P
9. Jeremy Affeldt, P
9. Michael Morse, ph
9. Sergio Romo, P
9. Travis Ishikawa, ph
9. Hunter Strickland, P

[Mav]

Originally Posted by Molitoth

Momentum is directly tied to confidence, and confidence or lack-there-of can exist in anything.

Momentum led you to applebees.

Can you please do that again tomorrow?

[tk13]

I think momentum can exist inside of games... although it really might just be a term used for overall team confidence. Carrying it over from game to game in baseball is tough because the next day you could be facing a lights out starter, or you may be running a below average starter out there, etc.

[Molitoth]

Originally Posted by Mavericks Ace

Momentum led you to applebees.

Can you please do that again tomorrow?

**** that. =(

[Prison Bitch]

If momentum existed, we'd have won game 1. Or SF would've won games 2&3. Or us tonight. Wait. This is confusing

[alnorth]

Again, I'm not talking about butterfly effect or time travel types of scenarios when you can look back, and point out that an event had an impact on later decisions in the game, that likely would have resulted in a different outcome had the event not happened.

I'm talking about this belief that you suddenly can do no wrong or that you "just know" you are now going to lose.

[Molitoth]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

If momentum existed, we'd have won game 1. Or SF would've won games 2&3. Or us tonight. Wait. This is confusing

If momentum didn't exist, the Giants would have stopped scoring?
Wait,... what?

[Kidd Lex]

Originally Posted by alnorth

If your team has a lead and it suddenly becomes tied, are you suddenly going to be..... somehow.... magically.... worse than you would have if your team still had the lead?

No, you wouldn't. If things don't go well and you lose, you'll look back and think thats the time you lost the "momentum". If you score and win anyway, you are not going to go back and think "gee I thought there might be momentum at the time, but I was wrong".

Its confirmation bias. Its the same reason why people think they are unlucky or hit all the red lights. They don't remember when good unlikely things happen or when it was all green.

Pressure effects people, and positive/negative actions/results can release/increase pressure. As the pressure is increased or decreased the positive or negative effects are increased or decreased exponentially. Not magic, momentum.

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by Molitoth

If momentum didn't exist, the Giants would have stopped scoring?
Wait,... what?

We were loose going in! But then we were supposed to be tight game 2. Then we had "momentum" today. Now we don't.

It's all so confusing

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by The God Hypothesis

Pressure effects people, and positive/negative actions/results can release/increase pressure. As the pressure is increased or decreased the positive or negative effects are increased or decreased exponentially. Not magic, momentum.

The impact that this has on the game is so small that it may as well not exist, especially in the world series.

Its probably more of a thing when teams are more likely to be demoralized or more likely to coast, like if you are terrible and playing out the string or up by a ton of games in late August.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by The God Hypothesis

Pressure effects people, and positive/negative actions can release pressure. As the pressure is increased or decreased the positive or negative effects are increased or decreased exponentially. Not magic, momentum.

But baseball is the most chaotic of the major sports. Look at the ball Pence hit to drive in the third run. If he puts his bat through the zone about five milliseconds sooner he hits it right at Escobar and that threat is over with the game being no worse than 4-3.

If Morse hits that ball five milliseconds later yesterday, the Giants probably win that game. You can't attribute events with such strong variance to momentum.

It helps us provide order to things that often defy description, but it's also not supportable by looking at the evidence.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

@BlairKerkhoff: Yost: Herrera would have thrown 7th if tied or down 1. Once Giants got 3 in 6th, no. #Royals

[Chiefs Pantalones]

@rustindodd: Eric Hosmer: "If we win tomorrow, we have the ability to go home and basically win one of two and we’re world champions."

[Kidd Lex]

Gents I understand your arguments, but the momentum on any given at bat switches by a called ball or strike by as much as .70 batting average points. a 2-1 count versus a 1-2 count changes everything, including the at bats momentum. It may be overstated, and I would guess it is, but to say its non-existent is naïve at best.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by The God Hypothesis

Gents I understand your arguments, but the momentum on any given at bat switches by a called ball or strike by as much as .70 batting average points. a 2-1 count versus a 1-2 count changes everything, including the at bats momentum. It may be overstated, and I would guess it is, but to say its non-existent is naïve at best.

This is not momentum.

The batter has a different approach and a different goal based on the count. That is from a logical, strategic approach to hitting.

[penbrook]

The last time the Royals lost a WS game by 6 or more runs they won the next 2.... Just saying let's Repeat History #KC