Cardinals "Official" 2011 St. Louis Cardinals Thread - Page 161

**BigRedChief** · 02:10 PM

This is so unreal. We were dead. No hope. A season over. Somehow, someway we find some team chemistry and squeak into the playoffs on the last day of the season.

Only to find us facing one of the best pitching staffs assembled in years with home field advantage. We somehow, someway find a way to beat the best pitcher in baseball on the road in an elimination game.

We have to go on the road and beat the team with the best home record in baseball. A team who mortgaged their future to make this run .We somehow, someway find a way to beat them on the road and make our 18th World series trip.

We take game 1, we give away game 2 and home field advantage. Albert goes off for probably the best performance in World Series history and we take game 3 easily. Games 4 & 5 our bats fall asleep, Phone gate happens and its not looking too good.

Game 6, one of the best baseball games of all time and it takes place in a season ending go home game. Cardinals are down 2 runs in their final chance on the season, twice. They are down to their final strike of the season, twice. They give up a 2 run homer in extra innings. In the bottom of the inning their final 3 batters are a combined 3-26 in the Playoffs and a pitcher because the bench is empty. Somehow, someway they get some runners on and the comeback player of the year drives in the tying run. Mr. Freese hits the walk off home run. We will see you tommorrow night.

Game 7, With our bulldog on the mound pitching on 3 days rest he is able to give us 6 good innings and get us to within 9 outs of our 11 World series title. Texas meltsdown, probably left over from last nights game and its over.

The underdog, come back team who had no business even being in the playoffs wins a World championship. They make movies about events like this in life. Events that you remember even if your not a fan of the sport or team for the rest of your life.

When it is your team.......Priceless

.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 07-27-2011, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Well this is just me, but am I happy Rasmus is gone? Yes. Am I happy with what the Cardinals got in return? **** no.

The Cardinals could have gotten a better package.

And LaRussa should be out of town because of this.

This.

Don't have a problem dealing Rasmus. Kid was a ****ing headcase and his PITA father didn't help matters. I don't think he would have ever met his potential here.

But the package they got for him is sickening, even if they sign Jackson long term and "Scrabble" turns out to be rock solid.

Rams Fan · 07-27-2011, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

This.

Don't have a problem dealing Rasmus. Kid was a ****ing headcase and his PITA father didn't help matters. I don't think he would have ever met his potential here.

But the package they got for him is sickening, even if they sign Jackson long term and "Scrabble" turns out to be rock solid.

And that's the reason why I don't have a problem with Rasmus being gone. Some players need a change of scenery, and Rasmus might be one of those players.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-27-2011, 08:06 PM

Like I told someone else today, part of being an effective manager or supervisor in any role is the ability to manage personalities, and that extends to sports. We've seen for 15 years this asshole's inability to effectively manage different personalities. The only thing TLR does well is get bench players to perform. But he does that at the expense of more talented players. Even his biggest strength is an inexcusable weakness.

Jay, you can't take that pitch.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-27-2011, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

And that's the reason why I don't have a problem with Rasmus being gone. Some players need a change of scenery, and Rasmus might be one of those players.

Here's the thing: the toxic environment was created by the manager. He did it for Ryan, for Rasmus, even back to Reyes.

The guy is a ****ing prick and a terrible manager to boot.

Rams Fan · 07-27-2011, 08:09 PM

I dare anyone to compare Rasmus to a guy like T.O or Moss.

Rams Fan · 07-27-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Here's the thing: the toxic environment was created by the manager. He did it for Ryan, for Rasmus, even back to Reyes.

The guy is a ****ing prick and a terrible manager to boot.

LaRussa wasn't the main reason why Ryan was traded, I believe. It was because other players couldn't stand him.

I could buy what you're saying, though. From the get go, LaRussa didn't get along with Ryan. Remember a few years back when he swung at a 3-0 or 3-1 pitch and LaRussa chastised him about it?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-27-2011, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

I dare anyone to compare Rasmus to a guy like T.O or Moss.

You'd be better off comparing him to John Elway, who was continually dicked around by Dan Reeves until the Broncos finally realized that the decrepit old bastard was undermining their franchise.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-27-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

LaRussa wasn't the main reason why Ryan was traded, I believe. It was because other players couldn't stand him.

I could buy what you're saying, though. From the get go, LaRussa didn't get along with Ryan. Remember a few years back when he swung at a 3-0 or 3-1 pitch and LaRussa chastised him about it?

Ryan had a blowup with Carpenter once, but TLR's acrimony towards him was well documented.

Again, I think a lot of your memory is (understandably) colored by way that the organization publicly excoriates its ex-players after they leave.

Rams Fan · 07-27-2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Ryan had a blowup with Carpenter once, but TLR's acrimony towards him was well documented.

Again, I think a lot of your memory is (understandably) colored by way that the organization publicly excoriates its ex-players after they leave.

I'd be an idiot to tell you that LaRussa didn't feud with Rolen and wasn't the reason why he was traded. I could be wrong on Ryan, but I read somewhere(and it wasn't from the Post-Dispatch or something that anyone in the Cardinals office said) that Pujols got pissed at him for doing an interview in the clubhouse or something like that. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was something to that extent.

**BigRedChief** · 07-27-2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

LaRussa wasn't the main reason why Ryan was traded, I believe. It was because other players couldn't stand him.

I could buy what you're saying, though. From the get go, LaRussa didn't get along with Ryan. Remember a few years back when he swung at a 3-0 or 3-1 pitch and LaRussa chastised him about it?

I disagree. I'm sure Rasmus wasn't the most popular guy in the locker room but thats not why you trade an underperforming high celing Rasmus, thats why you trade an underperforming it is what it is Ryan.

No way, this isn't on Larussa.

Rams Fan · 07-27-2011, 08:23 PM

I've also heard that Ankiel and his family didn't talk to him in 2009. Take that for what ever it's worth.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-27-2011, 08:25 PM

Posnanski wrote this 9 months ago after we shipped off Ryan:

The Expendable Brendan Ryan

"(Brendan) Ryan became expendable for the Cardinals after they acquired infielder Ryan Theriot from the Los Angeles Dodgers last month. Theriot was billed immediately as the Cardinals starting shortstop, and they let other teams know that Ryan was available."

-- From Derrick Goold's story on the Cardinals trading Brendan Ryan to Seattle for a Class A reliever.

I wrote this on Twitter: I can rarely remember reading a baseball notion quite as comical as Brendan Ryan becoming expandable BECAUSE the Cardinals acquired Ryan Theriot. I'm sure that there are other reasons Brendan Ryan really became expendable -- most of these having to do with manager Tony La Russa -- but sure enough they keep pushing the Ryan Theriot thing.

"The reason that Ryan Theriot was traded for is we have a chance to win," La Russa told reporters.

"We didn’t try to get (Blake) Hawksworth off the club," La Russa told Tim McKernan about the Hawksworth for Theriot deal. "We had some right hand relief depth and we were able to use him to get a player that we really like in Ryan Theriot."

I have to admit: I don't fully understand why the Cardinals really like Ryan Theriot. He's a 31-year-old shortstop with a career 82 OPS+ (he did have a good on-base percentage in 2008) and a fading reputation as an adequate defensive shortstop. In fact, last year he hardly even played shortstop. The Cubs moved him to second base to make room for 20-year-old Starlin Castro. Then they traded him to Los Angeles, and the Dodgers did not play him even once at short even though their starting shortstop Rafael Furcal was hurt. The Dodgers preferred to put Jamey Carroll out there, though Carroll had not played a single game at shortstop in the big leagues in three years.

Brendan Ryan, meanwhile, posted the best defensive numbers at shortstop in baseball last year. He really is a defensive marvel. It's also true that he didn't hit a lick. His .223/.279/.294 line was abominable and probably unplayable. Maybe that reflects his true offensive value. But maybe not. The year before, he hit .292/.340/.400. The difference seems to have been an abnormally high batting average on balls in play in 2009 (.332) and an abnormally low BABIP in 2010 (.253). He may have been lucky in 2009. He also may have been unlucky in 2010. Maybe his true value is somewhere in the middle.

If he can hit something closer to what he did in 2009, with the way he fields he can be one of the most valuable shortstops in the American League. You know, unless Derek Jeter rebounds, there's an opening for best shortstop in the AL. You know who led league shortstops in combined-WAR in 2010? We are combining Fangraphs WAR and Baseball Reference Wins Above Replacement ... it was Oakland's Cliff Pennington. Ryan can certainly be a Pennington kind player. Seattle has been a team that has tried to win with a certain strategy -- with defense playing a big part -- and it seems to me that getting Ryan for a minor league arm could work out for them the way getting Frankie Gutierrez did two years ago.

Then again, Ryan might not hit at all and end up on the bench by mid-May. Nobody really knows. My point here is not that the Mariners may have made a good move. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. My point here is that the Cardinals traded for the veteran presence of Ryan Theriot (and they're paying him more than $3 million) and then believed this trade made Brendan Ryan "expendable." That just seems bizarre.

And we really may be getting to the point where Tony La Russa's year-to-year decision to manage or retire is badly and visibly hurting the Cardinals. Because it does not feel like that Cardinals are building a team as much as it feels like they are trying to cobble together one more winner for Tony La Russa.

Look: Brendan Ryan isn't exactly a kid, but he is two years younger than Theriot and has at least proven to be superior defensively. What Ryan Theriot offers is that sort of veteran comfort and general scrappiness that makes Tony La Russa happy. They signed soon-to-be 35 year old Lance Berkman when he is coming off the sort of year that makes you wonder if his terrific career is on a serious downslope. More veteran comfort. The Cardinals are sending out all sorts of weird vibes about what they think of their one gifted young everyday player, Colby Rasmus -- it's hard to wade through it all but it doesn't seem like there's a lot of love going on there.

There are other signs of one-yearitis -- uncomfortable signs, I think, if you're a Cardinals fan. Tony La Russa is one of the great managers in baseball history. He has won a World Series and two pennants with the Cardinals and guided the Cardinals to the playoffs seven division titles and more than 1,300 victories. But at this point, he does not seem especially interested in being patient or in developing players. He wants now. And who can blame him? He's 66 years old, he has been managing big league teams for 32 years, there's no great motivation to think about future years.

And I just don't think that sort of short-range strategy works much. The Kansas City Royals, at the end of owner Ewing Kauffman's life, were desperate to give him one more winner. This actually led to one of the most remarkable and stunning facts you will ever hear -- in 1990 the Kansas City Royals had the highest payroll in all of baseball. This was because the Royals had given absurd contracts to Mark Davis and Storm Davis, and they gave a big extension to Mark Gubicza. and they actually made 42-year-old Bob Boone one of the highest paid players in baseball and so on. Those financially reckless Royals.

Of course it didn't work. The Royals after winning 92 games in 1989 were dreadful in 1990, going 75-86 and finishing sixth in the American League West. They were sixth again the next year even after falling to seventh in total payroll. They lost 90 games in 1992. And in 1993, Ewing Kauffman died. The effort to get him one more pennant was noble. But it seems to me that you don't build winners with that kind of short-sighted strategy.

And now, it seems like the Cardinals are using that same strategy. The Cardinals have enough talent to honestly believe they can contend. In 2010, they had the best player in baseball, a generally hard-hitting outfield, a great defensive shortstop, got 96 starts out Adam Wainwright, Chris Carpenter and Jaime Garcia (combined 2.79 ERA and 524-183 strikeout to walk) and had an often decent bullpen. But even with all that, they only won 86 games. And they have not won a single playoff game since winning the World Series four years ago. Now they've gone out and traded for Ryan Theriot in the hope that will help make them a winner. As a friend of mine says about anything: "It COULD work." I'm just not sure they're seeing straight in St. Louis these days.

Marcellus · 07-27-2011, 08:38 PM

Why do people think that other teams don't know what most Cards fans do about Rasmus?

Why would GM's line up to give a truckload for a guy considered to be a head case with an overbearing father?

Really at this point tell me who was going to give MORE for Rasmus?

**BigRedChief** · 07-27-2011, 08:47 PM

Gawd Houston sucks

**OnTheWarpath15** · 07-27-2011, 08:54 PM

Don't know if they keep the stat, but we ****ing HAVE to lead the league in leadoff extra base hit that don't come around to score.

01-06-2011, 09:41 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $2889627 VARSITY	"Official" 2011 St. Louis Cardinals Thread This is so unreal. We were dead. No hope. A season over. Somehow, someway we find some team chemistry and squeak into the playoffs on the last day of the season. Only to find us facing one of the best pitching staffs assembled in years with home field advantage. We somehow, someway find a way to beat the best pitcher in baseball on the road in an elimination game. We have to go on the road and beat the team with the best home record in baseball. A team who mortgaged their future to make this run .We somehow, someway find a way to beat them on the road and make our 18th World series trip. We take game 1, we give away game 2 and home field advantage. Albert goes off for probably the best performance in World Series history and we take game 3 easily. Games 4 & 5 our bats fall asleep, Phone gate happens and its not looking too good. Game 6, one of the best baseball games of all time and it takes place in a season ending go home game. Cardinals are down 2 runs in their final chance on the season, twice. They are down to their final strike of the season, twice. They give up a 2 run homer in extra innings. In the bottom of the inning their final 3 batters are a combined 3-26 in the Playoffs and a pitcher because the bench is empty. Somehow, someway they get some runners on and the comeback player of the year drives in the tying run. Mr. Freese hits the walk off home run. We will see you tommorrow night. Game 7, With our bulldog on the mound pitching on 3 days rest he is able to give us 6 good innings and get us to within 9 outs of our 11 World series title. Texas meltsdown, probably left over from last nights game and its over. The underdog, come back team who had no business even being in the playoffs wins a World championship. They make movies about events like this in life. Events that you remember even if your not a fan of the sport or team for the rest of your life. When it is your team.......Priceless . Attached Thumbnails Last edited by BigRedChief; 10-29-2011 at 02:10 PM..
Posts: 79,201

07-27-2011, 08:06 PM	#2403
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7959572	Like I told someone else today, part of being an effective manager or supervisor in any role is the ability to manage personalities, and that extends to sports. We've seen for 15 years this asshole's inability to effectively manage different personalities. The only thing TLR does well is get bench players to perform. But he does that at the expense of more talented players. Even his biggest strength is an inexcusable weakness. Jay, you can't take that pitch. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,847

07-27-2011, 08:09 PM	#2405
Rams Fan Greatest QB Duo of 2015 Join Date: Mar 2010 Casino cash: $2401133	I dare anyone to compare Rasmus to a guy like T.O or Moss.
Posts: 17,134

07-27-2011, 08:23 PM	#2411
Rams Fan Greatest QB Duo of 2015 Join Date: Mar 2010 Casino cash: $2401133	I've also heard that Ankiel and his family didn't talk to him in 2009. Take that for what ever it's worth.
Posts: 17,134

07-27-2011, 08:25 PM	#2412
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7959572	Posnanski wrote this 9 months ago after we shipped off Ryan: The Expendable Brendan Ryan "(Brendan) Ryan became expendable for the Cardinals after they acquired infielder Ryan Theriot from the Los Angeles Dodgers last month. Theriot was billed immediately as the Cardinals starting shortstop, and they let other teams know that Ryan was available." -- From Derrick Goold's story on the Cardinals trading Brendan Ryan to Seattle for a Class A reliever. I wrote this on Twitter: I can rarely remember reading a baseball notion quite as comical as Brendan Ryan becoming expandable BECAUSE the Cardinals acquired Ryan Theriot. I'm sure that there are other reasons Brendan Ryan really became expendable -- most of these having to do with manager Tony La Russa -- but sure enough they keep pushing the Ryan Theriot thing. "The reason that Ryan Theriot was traded for is we have a chance to win," La Russa told reporters. "We didn’t try to get (Blake) Hawksworth off the club," La Russa told Tim McKernan about the Hawksworth for Theriot deal. "We had some right hand relief depth and we were able to use him to get a player that we really like in Ryan Theriot." I have to admit: I don't fully understand why the Cardinals really like Ryan Theriot. He's a 31-year-old shortstop with a career 82 OPS+ (he did have a good on-base percentage in 2008) and a fading reputation as an adequate defensive shortstop. In fact, last year he hardly even played shortstop. The Cubs moved him to second base to make room for 20-year-old Starlin Castro. Then they traded him to Los Angeles, and the Dodgers did not play him even once at short even though their starting shortstop Rafael Furcal was hurt. The Dodgers preferred to put Jamey Carroll out there, though Carroll had not played a single game at shortstop in the big leagues in three years. Brendan Ryan, meanwhile, posted the best defensive numbers at shortstop in baseball last year. He really is a defensive marvel. It's also true that he didn't hit a lick. His .223/.279/.294 line was abominable and probably unplayable. Maybe that reflects his true offensive value. But maybe not. The year before, he hit .292/.340/.400. The difference seems to have been an abnormally high batting average on balls in play in 2009 (.332) and an abnormally low BABIP in 2010 (.253). He may have been lucky in 2009. He also may have been unlucky in 2010. Maybe his true value is somewhere in the middle. If he can hit something closer to what he did in 2009, with the way he fields he can be one of the most valuable shortstops in the American League. You know, unless Derek Jeter rebounds, there's an opening for best shortstop in the AL. You know who led league shortstops in combined-WAR in 2010? We are combining Fangraphs WAR and Baseball Reference Wins Above Replacement ... it was Oakland's Cliff Pennington. Ryan can certainly be a Pennington kind player. Seattle has been a team that has tried to win with a certain strategy -- with defense playing a big part -- and it seems to me that getting Ryan for a minor league arm could work out for them the way getting Frankie Gutierrez did two years ago. Then again, Ryan might not hit at all and end up on the bench by mid-May. Nobody really knows. My point here is not that the Mariners may have made a good move. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. My point here is that the Cardinals traded for the veteran presence of Ryan Theriot (and they're paying him more than $3 million) and then believed this trade made Brendan Ryan "expendable." That just seems bizarre. And we really may be getting to the point where Tony La Russa's year-to-year decision to manage or retire is badly and visibly hurting the Cardinals. Because it does not feel like that Cardinals are building a team as much as it feels like they are trying to cobble together one more winner for Tony La Russa. Look: Brendan Ryan isn't exactly a kid, but he is two years younger than Theriot and has at least proven to be superior defensively. What Ryan Theriot offers is that sort of veteran comfort and general scrappiness that makes Tony La Russa happy. They signed soon-to-be 35 year old Lance Berkman when he is coming off the sort of year that makes you wonder if his terrific career is on a serious downslope. More veteran comfort. The Cardinals are sending out all sorts of weird vibes about what they think of their one gifted young everyday player, Colby Rasmus -- it's hard to wade through it all but it doesn't seem like there's a lot of love going on there. There are other signs of one-yearitis -- uncomfortable signs, I think, if you're a Cardinals fan. Tony La Russa is one of the great managers in baseball history. He has won a World Series and two pennants with the Cardinals and guided the Cardinals to the playoffs seven division titles and more than 1,300 victories. But at this point, he does not seem especially interested in being patient or in developing players. He wants now. And who can blame him? He's 66 years old, he has been managing big league teams for 32 years, there's no great motivation to think about future years. And I just don't think that sort of short-range strategy works much. The Kansas City Royals, at the end of owner Ewing Kauffman's life, were desperate to give him one more winner. This actually led to one of the most remarkable and stunning facts you will ever hear -- in 1990 the Kansas City Royals had the highest payroll in all of baseball. This was because the Royals had given absurd contracts to Mark Davis and Storm Davis, and they gave a big extension to Mark Gubicza. and they actually made 42-year-old Bob Boone one of the highest paid players in baseball and so on. Those financially reckless Royals. Of course it didn't work. The Royals after winning 92 games in 1989 were dreadful in 1990, going 75-86 and finishing sixth in the American League West. They were sixth again the next year even after falling to seventh in total payroll. They lost 90 games in 1992. And in 1993, Ewing Kauffman died. The effort to get him one more pennant was noble. But it seems to me that you don't build winners with that kind of short-sighted strategy. And now, it seems like the Cardinals are using that same strategy. The Cardinals have enough talent to honestly believe they can contend. In 2010, they had the best player in baseball, a generally hard-hitting outfield, a great defensive shortstop, got 96 starts out Adam Wainwright, Chris Carpenter and Jaime Garcia (combined 2.79 ERA and 524-183 strikeout to walk) and had an often decent bullpen. But even with all that, they only won 86 games. And they have not won a single playoff game since winning the World Series four years ago. Now they've gone out and traded for Ryan Theriot in the hope that will help make them a winner. As a friend of mine says about anything: "It COULD work." I'm just not sure they're seeing straight in St. Louis these days. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,847

07-27-2011, 08:38 PM	#2413
Marcellus Diablo Negro Join Date: Sep 2003 Casino cash: $2842662	Why do people think that other teams don't know what most Cards fans do about Rasmus? Why would GM's line up to give a truckload for a guy considered to be a head case with an overbearing father? Really at this point tell me who was going to give MORE for Rasmus?
Posts: 69,453

07-27-2011, 08:47 PM	#2414
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $2889627 VARSITY	Gawd Houston sucks __________________ Time is worth more than money.
Posts: 79,201

07-27-2011, 08:54 PM	#2415
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $4811115	Don't know if they keep the stat, but we ****ing HAVE to lead the league in leadoff extra base hit that don't come around to score.
Posts: 60,272