Cardinals ***Offical 2012 STL Cardinals World Champions Thread *** - Page 163

**BigRedChief** · 08:57 PM

St. Louis Cardinals: 7 reasons fans should feel good about 2012

Posted Wednesday, October 24, 2012, at 9:26 PM

St. Louis Cardinals fans are likely feeling deflated after the collapse that put an end to the team's dreams of a World Series repeat, but there is good reason to be excited.

With all of the odds against them, the Cardinals managed to push their 2012 season beyond any anticipated boundary.

Given all of the season's changes and the adversity the team had to fight through, the fact that they played in October at all was an anomaly in itself. On paper, it made sense for the Cardinals to be in the playoffs, but few saw them as a true threat.
As the season continued, even fans began to doubt as they watched the team seemingly crumble in June and July. When the Cardinals finally came to life in September they went 11-5 in the last 16 games of the season to lock up the second Wild Card position in its inaugural year.

That run, despite it's crushing end in Cincinnati in Game 7 of the National League Championship Series, lots of good came from the Cardinals' season and playoff run.
Following in no particular order are 10 reasons Cardinals fans have to be excited about the 2013 season.

Trevor Rosenthal
When rookie fireballer Trevor Rosenthal made his first trip to St. Louis, it was obvious almost instantly that he was something special.
Between his 100 mph fastball and the general inability for almost anyone to hit off of him, he became a huge part of the Cardinals playoff run.

He pitched in a total of 19 regular season games before the 22-year-old rookie from Lee's Summit, Mo. got his first taste of postseason baseball and he put on quite a show.
In 8.2 IP over seven postseason appearances, Rosenthal held opponents to only two hits and no runs.
It's possible that down the stretch he may have already earned his spot in the rotation for 2013.

Shelby Miller
The long-coveted fastball pitching prospect Shelby Miller also made his first trip to St. Louis in 2012 and put on a good show.
In 13.2 IP over six regular season games, Miller surrendered only two runs on nine hits. His postseason performance was more of the same with two runs on four hits in 3.2 IP.

Despite a dismal first half of the season in Memphis, Miller got himself together and still managed to make one major league start before the end of the season -- a very impressive start at that.
Against the Cincinnati Reds in the final game of the regular season, Miller posted 5.2 hitless innings. He gave up no runs and collected his first major league win.

Expect to see a lot more of Miller in St. Louis early in 2013.

Joe Kelly
When Joe Kelly made his major league debut on June 10, few could have guessed the importance he would play throughout the remainder of the 2012 season.
Kelly started 16 games for the Cardinals this season filling in for Jaime Garcia and Lance Lynn, but it was the postseason when he really came through for his teammates.

When starting pitchers struggled time and again in October, it was Kelly who came to their rescue.
In seven postseason appearances, Kelly threw 7.2 innings and surrendered only two runs on six hits. Kelly came through for the Cardinals from the bullpen.
There's a good chance that could be his home in the future.

Mike Matheny
When the Cardinals hired Mike Matheny to take over for Tony LaRussa, many question bringing in a manager with no experience to such a storied franchise.

He had a few hiccups and growing pains along the way, but for a rookie manager to get his team where Matheny did this year speaks volumes.
His players have a strong respect for Matheny and credit his positive style with being a driving force behind their 2012 success.
True, he didn't get them through the NLCS, but the team made it to an all or nothing Game 7. That's good experience for the players obviously, but also for Matheny. Not only did he learn a lot about managing in the media pressure cooker that is postseason baseball, he also got a taste of what it felt like to win as a manager.

NLCS loss means more drive to win
While the NLCS loss was a good lesson for a young manager, it's an even more important lesson for a young player.
The 2011 championship lit a fire under young players like Lance Lynn and Jon Jay. That fire helped drive them to extremely successful sophomore seasons.

What happened in 2012 will likely do the same for Rosenthal, Miller and Kelly. Their 2013 season may not be like Jay or Lynn's 2012, but now they've gotten a little taste of what it feels like to be a winner.

Both the excitement and the public humbling can be a great experience for any young player.

The run was without several key components
In a season riddled with injuries, none were as crucial as those late in the season.
The loss of Lance Berkman and Rafael Furcal significantly weakened the team's bench. Instead of having Pete Kozma, Allen Craig and Matt Carpenter to pinch hit, the team wound up having to use them in the lineup.

The loss of Jaime Garcia and Jake Westbrook also rocked the Cardinals. Instead of having Lynn and Westbrook also available from the bullpen, Lynn was pushed back into the rotation after a very successful NLDS bullpen stint.

Having gotten as deep into the playoffs as the Cardinals did in spite of the injuries is quite the accomplishment.

They did it without Pujols, LaRussa and Duncan
Few in the world of sports gave the Cardinals a fighting chance when Albert Pujols left the team to play on the west coast. Surely this team couldn't be as good as they were?

Few gave them a chance after longtime manager Tony LaRussa decided it was time to retire.
Few gave them a chance after pitching coach Dave Duncan left the team.
The Cardinals did it despite all of that. That's something any fan should be proud of.

No, they didn't hoist a trophy. There will be no parade or tickertape.
What there is, though, is hope for next year and that will come sooner than you may think.
After all, pitchers and catchers report to Spring Training in just four short months.

From a blog I was sent on twitter: http://www.dailystatesman.com/blogs/...es/entry/50051

O.city · 12-09-2012, 11:28 PM

Stephen Drew is still out there, believe I read somewhere that we had some interest.

**DeezNutz** · 12-09-2012, 11:29 PM

The Royals have a very deep pen, and I think we should be looking to make a trade with our AL "rivals" from across the state.

O.city · 12-09-2012, 11:30 PM

How bout, Crow for some sunflower seeds and a new infield tarp?

**BigRedChief** · 12-09-2012, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Stephen Drew is still out there, believe I read somewhere that we had some interest.

Too much money. We don't have the money. Berkman, Loshe and probably Shu are off the books but Freese, Craig and Motte are arbitration eligible and they are all going to get sizable raises. And this is Waino's last year. We need money to pay him.

**BigRedChief** · 12-09-2012, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

The Royals have a very deep pen, and I think we should be looking to make a trade with our AL "rivals" from across the state.

You guys are going to be kicking yourself's for letting the Lee's Summit product, Rosenthal get out of the KC area.

DJ's left nut · 12-09-2012, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

The Royals have a very deep pen, and I think we should be looking to make a trade with our AL "rivals" from across the state.

Hell yeah, send Moore over here so we can rap....I mean, make reinforce his squad.

I love the idea of making a trade with Moore at this point. Does he want to send Ventura or Starling our way for Jake Westbrook? Westbrook is a rock-solid innings eater that can probably put up an ERA around 4 over 180ish innings.

I hear that Starling may never learn to hit major league sliders though. I mean, I guess we could send you Westbrook and Salas in exchange for Starling and Ventura. Seems pretty fair to me.

**BigRedChief** · 12-10-2012, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Hell yeah, send Moore over here so we can rap....I mean, make reinforce his squad.

I love the idea of making a trade with Moore at this point. Does he want to send Ventura or Starling our way for Jake Westbrook? Westbrook is a rock-solid innings eater that can probably put up an ERA around 4 over 180ish innings.

I hear that Starling may never learn to hit major league sliders though. I mean, I guess we could send you Westbrook and Salas in exchange for Starling and Ventura. Seems pretty fair to me.

Westbrook would be the #2 pitcher on their staff.

DJ's left nut · 12-10-2012, 05:10 PM

This will get lost in the Royals thread, but isn't Skip a perfect trade candidate for KC?

They need a reasonably priced platoon OFer to play RF with Frenchy. Skips OBP against lefties is right around .360, which is damn good. He's a quality hitter with a nice eye that would be a boost for any lineup that doesn't have a true leadoff hitter (the Royals don't).

Better still, if by some chance Frenchy recaptures his 2011 form, Skip's definitely a better option at 2b for them than Chris Getz. Hell, he could probably start every day over getz if need b.

Skip's a great fit for that team. He's reasonably priced, gets on base and fills both of the holes the Royals have. They have 3 nice little SS prospects in the low minors (Calixte, Mondesi and Arteaga) and a young starter with a ton of team control already in place at SS.

Surely they'd be willing to give up one of those guys for a guy that would give them 500 quality ABs in a couple of positions they could really use some help.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-10-2012, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

This will get lost in the Royals thread, but isn't Skip a perfect trade candidate for KC?

They need a reasonably priced platoon OFer to play RF with Frenchy. Skips OBP against lefties is right around .360, which is damn good. He's a quality hitter with a nice eye that would be a boost for any lineup that doesn't have a true leadoff hitter (the Royals don't).

Better still, if by some chance Frenchy recaptures his 2011 form, Skip's definitely a better option at 2b for them than Chris Getz. Hell, he could probably start every day over getz if need b.

Skip's a great fit for that team. He's reasonably priced, gets on base and fills both of the holes the Royals have. They have 3 nice little SS prospects in the low minors (Calixte, Mondesi and Arteaga) and a young starter with a ton of team control already in place at SS.

Surely they'd be willing to give up one of those guys for a guy that would give them 500 quality ABs in a couple of positions they could really use some help.

I agree completely, but it seems DM is perfectly content throwing Frenchy out there every day.

Hell, DM's phone was probably ringing off the hook today with other GM's hoping he was still in a giving mood.

duncan_idaho · 12-10-2012, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

This will get lost in the Royals thread, but isn't Skip a perfect trade candidate for KC?

They need a reasonably priced platoon OFer to play RF with Frenchy. Skips OBP against lefties is right around .360, which is damn good. He's a quality hitter with a nice eye that would be a boost for any lineup that doesn't have a true leadoff hitter (the Royals don't).

Better still, if by some chance Frenchy recaptures his 2011 form, Skip's definitely a better option at 2b for them than Chris Getz. Hell, he could probably start every day over getz if need b.

Skip's a great fit for that team. He's reasonably priced, gets on base and fills both of the holes the Royals have. They have 3 nice little SS prospects in the low minors (Calixte, Mondesi and Arteaga) and a young starter with a ton of team control already in place at SS.

Surely they'd be willing to give up one of those guys for a guy that would give them 500 quality ABs in a couple of positions they could really use some help.

Posted a response in the Royals thread, but I'll leave it here, too.

Shumacher is an interesting/good option for KC. But Mondesi/Calixte would not be on the table if you're looking for a young SS. Artaega, a surplus reliever, or a depth-level starter would be the best bets.

Mondesi is a top 5 guy in the Royals system (Which now goes: Zimmer, Starling, Mondesi, Ventura, Bonifacio) and is coming off an age 16 season that draws legit comparisons to Jurickson Profar at the same age. He's a sure top 100 kid, possible top 50.

Calixte is a prospect the org loves. Great power, and put up very nice offensive numbers at High-A Wilmington (.752 OPS from a SS in the Carolina league pops out). He's also going to stick in the MI.

DJ's left nut · 12-10-2012, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Posted a response in the Royals thread, but I'll leave it here, too.

Shumacher is an interesting/good option for KC. But Mondesi/Calixte would not be on the table if you're looking for a young SS. Artaega, a surplus reliever, or a depth-level starter would be the best bets.

Mondesi is a top 5 guy in the Royals system (Which now goes: Zimmer, Starling, Mondesi, Ventura, Bonifacio) and is coming off an age 16 season that draws legit comparisons to Jurickson Profar at the same age. He's a sure top 100 kid, possible top 50.

Calixte is a prospect the org loves. Great power, and put up very nice offensive numbers at High-A Wilmington (.752 OPS from a SS in the Carolina league pops out). He's also going to stick in the MI.

Calixte was my favorite because he was closest to being ready. Mondesi looked pretty outstanding as well, though he's so far away still that it's hard to know exactly what you have there. I just don't see how you can put any stock in his stats at all - he's just a scouting report and tools at this point.

Joe Kelly and Skip for Calixte? Kelly has a great arm and put up a 3.74 ERA as a starter despite a very short notice promotion. I see no reason to consider him a lesser prospect than Wade Davis, to be honest.

Prison Bitch · 12-10-2012, 06:19 PM

I wanted to build a trade proposal around Shelby Miller. Myers for Miller and work out the details later. His arm is just massive. I've heard he's got some maturity issues and wonder about his control, he seems a bit wild from the time I saw him which was limited. But a huge arm. Cheap & controllable too.

**BigRedChief** · 12-10-2012, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

I wanted to build a trade proposal around Shelby Miller. Myers for Miller and work out the details later. His arm is just massive. I've heard he's got some maturity issues and wonder about his control, he seems a bit wild from the time I saw him which was limited. But a huge arm. Cheap & controllable too.

The Royals don't have enough to get Miller.

**BigRedChief** · 12-10-2012, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Calixte was my favorite because he was closest to being ready. Mondesi looked pretty outstanding as well, though he's so far away still that it's hard to know exactly what you have there. I just don't see how you can put any stock in his stats at all - he's just a scouting report and tools at this point.

Joe Kelly and Skip for Calixte? Kelly has a great arm and put up a 3.74 ERA as a starter despite a very short notice promotion. I see no reason to consider him a lesser prospect than Wade Davis, to be honest.

Joe Kelly would rock for KC. Would this Calixte be worth Kelly?

DJ's left nut · 12-10-2012, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

I wanted to build a trade proposal around Shelby Miller. Myers for Miller and work out the details later. His arm is just massive. I've heard he's got some maturity issues and wonder about his control, he seems a bit wild from the time I saw him which was limited. But a huge arm. Cheap & controllable too.

And Miller would've been ready to start this year (oh, and for 5 more after that).

I'm betting the Cardinals would've turned it down because they have Holliday in LF and Oscar Taveras in RF, but I would've taken them up on it. You can always find a home for a potential 40 HR bat.

Then again, if Miller does put it together, he's a no-shit ace starting pitcher. So there's that.

Maybe the Royals asked and the Cards said no. If the Royals didn't even bother, they really screwed the pooch.

01-04-2012, 10:08 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-561038 VARSITY	*Offical 2012 STL Cardinals World Champions Thread * St. Louis Cardinals: 7 reasons fans should feel good about 2012 Posted Wednesday, October 24, 2012, at 9:26 PM St. Louis Cardinals fans are likely feeling deflated after the collapse that put an end to the team's dreams of a World Series repeat, but there is good reason to be excited. With all of the odds against them, the Cardinals managed to push their 2012 season beyond any anticipated boundary. Given all of the season's changes and the adversity the team had to fight through, the fact that they played in October at all was an anomaly in itself. On paper, it made sense for the Cardinals to be in the playoffs, but few saw them as a true threat. As the season continued, even fans began to doubt as they watched the team seemingly crumble in June and July. When the Cardinals finally came to life in September they went 11-5 in the last 16 games of the season to lock up the second Wild Card position in its inaugural year. That run, despite it's crushing end in Cincinnati in Game 7 of the National League Championship Series, lots of good came from the Cardinals' season and playoff run. Following in no particular order are 10 reasons Cardinals fans have to be excited about the 2013 season. Trevor Rosenthal When rookie fireballer Trevor Rosenthal made his first trip to St. Louis, it was obvious almost instantly that he was something special. Between his 100 mph fastball and the general inability for almost anyone to hit off of him, he became a huge part of the Cardinals playoff run. He pitched in a total of 19 regular season games before the 22-year-old rookie from Lee's Summit, Mo. got his first taste of postseason baseball and he put on quite a show. In 8.2 IP over seven postseason appearances, Rosenthal held opponents to only two hits and no runs. It's possible that down the stretch he may have already earned his spot in the rotation for 2013. Shelby Miller The long-coveted fastball pitching prospect Shelby Miller also made his first trip to St. Louis in 2012 and put on a good show. In 13.2 IP over six regular season games, Miller surrendered only two runs on nine hits. His postseason performance was more of the same with two runs on four hits in 3.2 IP. Despite a dismal first half of the season in Memphis, Miller got himself together and still managed to make one major league start before the end of the season -- a very impressive start at that. Against the Cincinnati Reds in the final game of the regular season, Miller posted 5.2 hitless innings. He gave up no runs and collected his first major league win. Expect to see a lot more of Miller in St. Louis early in 2013. Joe Kelly When Joe Kelly made his major league debut on June 10, few could have guessed the importance he would play throughout the remainder of the 2012 season. Kelly started 16 games for the Cardinals this season filling in for Jaime Garcia and Lance Lynn, but it was the postseason when he really came through for his teammates. When starting pitchers struggled time and again in October, it was Kelly who came to their rescue. In seven postseason appearances, Kelly threw 7.2 innings and surrendered only two runs on six hits. Kelly came through for the Cardinals from the bullpen. There's a good chance that could be his home in the future. Mike Matheny When the Cardinals hired Mike Matheny to take over for Tony LaRussa, many question bringing in a manager with no experience to such a storied franchise. He had a few hiccups and growing pains along the way, but for a rookie manager to get his team where Matheny did this year speaks volumes. His players have a strong respect for Matheny and credit his positive style with being a driving force behind their 2012 success. True, he didn't get them through the NLCS, but the team made it to an all or nothing Game 7. That's good experience for the players obviously, but also for Matheny. Not only did he learn a lot about managing in the media pressure cooker that is postseason baseball, he also got a taste of what it felt like to win as a manager. NLCS loss means more drive to win While the NLCS loss was a good lesson for a young manager, it's an even more important lesson for a young player. The 2011 championship lit a fire under young players like Lance Lynn and Jon Jay. That fire helped drive them to extremely successful sophomore seasons. What happened in 2012 will likely do the same for Rosenthal, Miller and Kelly. Their 2013 season may not be like Jay or Lynn's 2012, but now they've gotten a little taste of what it feels like to be a winner. Both the excitement and the public humbling can be a great experience for any young player. The run was without several key components In a season riddled with injuries, none were as crucial as those late in the season. The loss of Lance Berkman and Rafael Furcal significantly weakened the team's bench. Instead of having Pete Kozma, Allen Craig and Matt Carpenter to pinch hit, the team wound up having to use them in the lineup. The loss of Jaime Garcia and Jake Westbrook also rocked the Cardinals. Instead of having Lynn and Westbrook also available from the bullpen, Lynn was pushed back into the rotation after a very successful NLDS bullpen stint. Having gotten as deep into the playoffs as the Cardinals did in spite of the injuries is quite the accomplishment. They did it without Pujols, LaRussa and Duncan Few in the world of sports gave the Cardinals a fighting chance when Albert Pujols left the team to play on the west coast. Surely this team couldn't be as good as they were? Few gave them a chance after longtime manager Tony LaRussa decided it was time to retire. Few gave them a chance after pitching coach Dave Duncan left the team. The Cardinals did it despite all of that. That's something any fan should be proud of. No, they didn't hoist a trophy. There will be no parade or tickertape. What there is, though, is hope for next year and that will come sooner than you may think. After all, pitchers and catchers report to Spring Training in just four short months. From a blog I was sent on twitter: http://www.dailystatesman.com/blogs/...es/entry/50051 Last edited by BigRedChief; 10-24-2012 at 08:57 PM..
Posts: 81,254

12-09-2012, 11:28 PM	#2431
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-535936	Stephen Drew is still out there, believe I read somewhere that we had some interest.
Posts: 84,157

12-09-2012, 11:30 PM	#2433
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-535936	How bout, Crow for some sunflower seeds and a new infield tarp?
Posts: 84,157

12-10-2012, 05:10 PM	#2438
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-630901	This will get lost in the Royals thread, but isn't Skip a perfect trade candidate for KC? They need a reasonably priced platoon OFer to play RF with Frenchy. Skips OBP against lefties is right around .360, which is damn good. He's a quality hitter with a nice eye that would be a boost for any lineup that doesn't have a true leadoff hitter (the Royals don't). Better still, if by some chance Frenchy recaptures his 2011 form, Skip's definitely a better option at 2b for them than Chris Getz. Hell, he could probably start every day over getz if need b. Skip's a great fit for that team. He's reasonably priced, gets on base and fills both of the holes the Royals have. They have 3 nice little SS prospects in the low minors (Calixte, Mondesi and Arteaga) and a young starter with a ton of team control already in place at SS. Surely they'd be willing to give up one of those guys for a guy that would give them 500 quality ABs in a couple of positions they could really use some help. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,722

12-10-2012, 06:19 PM	#2442
Prison Bitch Rabbi Goldmann Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $5450159	I wanted to build a trade proposal around Shelby Miller. Myers for Miller and work out the details later. His arm is just massive. I've heard he's got some maturity issues and wonder about his control, he seems a bit wild from the time I saw him which was limited. But a huge arm. Cheap & controllable too.
Posts: 87,025