***Offical 2010 STL Cardinals Baseball Thread ***

[BigRedChief]

Holliday signs. The Deal is Done. $120 Million over 7 years.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=stl

Signed or controlled for the next 2 years

Shumaker 2B
Rasmus CF
Pujols 1B
Holliday LF
Ludwick RF
Molina C
Freese 3B
Ryan SS
And 2 CY Young caliber starting pitchers
Carp and Wainwright P

We get Lohse or Garcia to step up and be a reliable 3rd starter in the playoffs we can win a World Series with this line up.

[Rams Fan]

Westbrook was resigned for 2 years, with an option for a 3rd. His salary is supposedly around $9 million.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Didn't like Uggla at all, but we needed him.

That said - we don't have anyone as good as Infante to trade them.

Moe and LaRussa have really ****ed this team up.

Bull. The Cardinals wouldn't have enough money to have both Albert and Uggla.Plus, we still need a LOOGY, backup catcher, backup middle infielder and maybe another OF. Injuries effected the Cardinals(i.e. No backup for Freese)

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Uggla was just traded to the Braves for Omar Infante

Don't worry, they'll sign Jamey Carroll or Craig Counsell and call it a day

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Uggla was just traded to the Braves for Omar Infante

He wasn't coming here long term. We will sign Pujols and there just ain't room in our lineup for a $10 million a year, $50 million gauranteed 2nd baseman. Just not going to happen.

We have a pitching staff made to win a World Championship for the next 3 years at least. We just need to make it to the playoffs.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Didn't like Uggla at all, but we needed him.

That said - we don't have anyone as good as Infante to trade them.

Moe and LaRussa have really ****ed this team up.

Because we ain't giving up chit for a one year rent a player. He doesn't fit in tong term.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Bull. The Cardinals wouldn't have enough money to have both Albert and Uggla.Plus, we still need a LOOGY, backup catcher, backup middle infielder and maybe another OF. Injuries effected the Cardinals(i.e. No backup for Freese)

They don't have the money to pay a second baseman...

But they do have the money to spend about $18 million/season on their 4th and 5th starters next season?

You know why they can't afford a competent major league 2b? Because they do insanely stupid shit like give Jake Westbrook and Kyle Lohse $9 and $12 millon/season respectively.

This disaster is of their own making. What injuries?

Injuries? What !@#$ing injuries? When Luddy was hurt? Oh yeah - we traded that guy. When Molina was hurt? My bad, they were already out of the race by then.

How about when Schumaker and Ryan were hurt....wait, they weren't hurt? That's right, they just sucked. Freese? Jesus tits, if David Freese going down destroys your entire season, your team sucked balls. David Freese isn't exactly Mike Schmidt. And when you don't have a backup for a guy that hasn't played a full season of baseball in his career (and was a completely unproven rookie to boot), exactly who do you have to blame?

Here's a question - wanna bet on getting another season from Carpenter like we just got? Gonna cross your fingers on AP and Holliday staying healthy all season.

If we have 'injury issues' like we had last season, I'll take that every year. Our injuries were relatively minor in the grand scheme. Teams that had far better seasons had far greater injury problems than we had.

This team is falling apart around itself because of horrid roster management and a manager that has lost his team. If you need evidence, look at the Cardinals record against sub .500 teams after the ASB last season.

Yeah, hard 9 indeed.

!@#$

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

He wasn't coming here long term. We will sign Pujols and there just ain't room in our lineup for a $10 million a year, $50 million gauranteed 2nd baseman. Just not going to happen.

We have a pitching staff made to win a World Championship for the next 3 years at least. We just need to make it to the playoffs.

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Because we ain't giving up chit for a one year rent a player. He doesn't fit in tong term.

These two things don't make sense.

If our pitching staff is geared up for the next 3 years (it's not, but I'll concede the point for argument), why exactly wouldn't you grab a guy like Uggla for a season?

Then let him go as a FA in the offseason and pocket the 2 first rounders that you'd get for letting him go as a type A?

This isn't the Royals - this is an aging team with a thin farm system. The time to go for it is NOW.

But hey, thankfully we have Moe in charge. He's shown himself to be a shrewd horse trader during his time in St. Louis.

I'm confident he'll get us pointed in the right direction in no time.

God help us if the guys Jocketty brought into this system get hurt...

[BigRedChief]

All we need is one more year from Carp and Shelby should be ready to step up as a good #2/#3 starter.

Both of the Lohse and Westbrook salaries are at market value. MLB FA Starting pitchers get $8-$10 million a year. Thats just the going rate. Not saying its as it should be. It just is what it is.

[Rams Fan]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

They don't have the money to pay a second baseman...

But they do have the money to spend about $18 million/season on their 4th and 5th starters next season?

You know why they can't afford a competent major league 2b? Because they do insanely stupid shit like give Jake Westbrook and Kyle Lohse $9 and $12 millon/season respectively.

I agree with you that the Lohse contract was mistake(considering that 2008 was way above his career average). But how is giving Westbrook that type of money a mistake? 2010 was right around his career average.

This disaster is of their own making. What injuries?

Injuries? What !@#$ing injuries? When Luddy was hurt? Oh yeah - we traded that guy. When Molina was hurt? My bad, they were already out of the race by then.

Luddy was out for a month. He's arbitration eligible. He had a bad half season with the Padres. Do you have a problem with the Cardinals for thinking they could Luddy like production out of a platoon of Jay/Craig, who are both younger than Luddy, at a cheaper cost? Yadi was hurt and having his backup out for the year with a concussion didn't help.

How about when Schumaker and Ryan were hurt....wait, they weren't hurt? That's right, they just sucked.

Ryan had problems with his wrist the whole season(that shouldn't be an excuse for his batting, though).

Freese? Jesus tits, if David Freese going down destroys your entire season, your team sucked balls. David Freese isn't exactly Mike Schmidt. And when you don't have a backup for a guy that hasn't played a full season of baseball in his career (and was a completely unproven rookie to boot), exactly who do you have to blame?

Do you remember a guy named Felipe Lopez? They thought he would replace Freese successfully, he didn't and sucked.

Here's a question - wanna bet on getting another season from Carpenter like we just got? Gonna cross your fingers on AP and Holliday staying healthy all season.

Am I counting for another season that Carp had? No, but he's been healthy(knock on wood) for the most part the past two seasons. AP and Holliday were healthy most of the season and didn't land on the DL. What's wrong with me expecting that they won't land on the DL?

This team is falling apart around itself because of horrid roster management and a manager that has lost his team. If you need evidence, look at the Cardinals record against sub .500 teams after the ASB last season.

Players have to play, you know. It's not all of LaRussa and Mo's fault.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

If our pitching staff is geared up for the next 3 years (it's not, but I'll concede the point for argument),

uhhh its pretty clear to me, at least on paper, we will have a good of staff as anyone to throw at a team in the playoffs for the next 3 years until Wainwright's contract is up.

2011
Wainwright
Carp
Garcia
Westbrook

2012
Waino
Carp
Miller
Garcia
Westbrook

2013
Waino
Miller
Garcia
Westbrook

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

uhhh its pretty clear to me, at least on paper, we will have a good of staff as anyone to throw at a team in the playoffs for the next 3 years until Wainwright's contract is up.

2011
Wainwright
Carp
Garcia
Westbrook

2012
Waino
Carp
Miller
Garcia
Westbrook

2013
Waino
Miller
Garcia
Westbrook

You forgot Lynn. Also, Westbrook's contract has mutual option for 2013(meaning both sides would have to agree to extend the contract).

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

uhhh its pretty clear to me, at least on paper, we will have a good of staff as anyone to throw at a team in the playoffs for the next 3 years until Wainwright's contract is up.

2011
Wainwright
Carp
Garcia
Westbrook

2012
Waino
Carp
Miller
Garcia
Westbrook

2013
Waino
Miller
Garcia
Westbrook

I don't see Carp remaining effective for much longer and until Miller throws a pitch at the big league level, I'm reticent to call him anything. And I'm not entirely certain that Carp's 2012 option is going to be picked up.

Furthermore, do you expect STL to just cut Kyle Lohse? He's in your 2012 rotation.

They're in good shape for 2011 and maybe 2012 but 2013 is anyone's guess. How you can just look at what we have now and say that Miller will be a championship caliber #2, Garcia will remain healthy and be a #3 (his injury history says otherwise) is beyond me.

And that again makes an argument that I conceded already.

If the rotation is in that good of shape, why don't you make a move to win now when Pujols and Holliday are still in the latter stages of their primes?

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

You forgot Lynn. Also, Westbrook's contract has mutual option for 2013(meaning both sides would have to agree to extend the contract).

okay, that makes sense. He flames out we can get off the hook but if he is doing his norm, both will green light the contract.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

okay, that makes sense. He flames out we can get off the hook but if he is doing his norm, both will green light the contract.

Yep. If Westbrook sucks in 2012, he would probably say yes on the option and the Cardinals wouldn't(so they wouldn't have to cough up the dough).

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

All we need is one more year from Carp and Shelby should be ready to step up as a good #2/#3 starter.

Both of the Lohse and Westbrook salaries are at market value. MLB FA Starting pitchers get $8-$10 million a year. Thats just the going rate. Not saying its as it should be. It just is what it is.

It's the going rate if your system isn't capable of producing starters on it's own.

Furthermore, a team comprised of people you pay "the going rate" for is going to be a .500 ballclub at best, especially on a mid-market payroll and especially when said mid-market payroll expects to bring on Albert Pujols in his decline seasons.

This team cannot pay retail. It just can't.

To win championships its needs a GM that is creative enough to not pay $20 million/season for the back 40% of its rotation.

Unfortunately we fired that guy.