Should the Patteeu Memorial Political Forum be permanently closed?

[TLO]

A good clean fun thread for a hot June day.

Please vote and discuss.

[Marcellus]

Serious question here, why would anyone care and bitch about a forum they are not forced to interact in?

[Raiderhater]

Originally Posted by Hank Hill

I think the discussion has been quite good in here. I'm enjoying myself.

It is a good discussion, so long as someone like me just doesn’t respond to some, at best, borderline political posts.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It's remarkable how often the 'misinformation' being discussed is something they just happen to disagree with.

99% of the time it's lazily applied to anything that contradicts any piece of the "official" narrative. With absolutely zero research involved.

Having to deal with a slew of agenda-driven "fact-checkers" is bad enough. When every joe on the street thinks he can fact-check information with barely a glance, it's unbearable.

[TLO]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Serious question here, why would anyone care and bitch about a forum they are not forced to interact in?

Because it's the off-season and we need something to talk about. This thread is on track to do better numbers than the great Air Fryer debate of the 2019 off-season.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Serious question here, why would anyone care and bitch about a forum they are not forced to interact in?

You happen to have paid any attention to anything at all for the last 6-8 years?

Entire country has rabbit ears and is more than willing to tell others what they can/cannot say.

Why should this be any different?

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

What are your goals for the world, and what do you think my goals are? I reach a hand across the gap of perspectives to find common ground, and then we can proceed from there.

I don't think our goals matter when it comes to freedom of speech. It's a very black and white issue. You either support it or you want to stifle it.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Vladimir_Kyrilytch

There is no common ground to find with communists. They want all property to be nationalized and the former property holders get shot in the back of the head. Mass graves ensue.

Are you a communist who espouses this? If so, then that's a starting point for discussion.

However, if you're speaking about someone else on the board, then I fear that this label is falling prey to the Big Conspiracy goal of fracturing American society. If you're making the claim about someone else, can you link to posts by that person that have advocated for seizing property and murdering people?

Thank you for participating.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

It should be discussed as to why people no longer trust the government and scientific community's knowledge.

It's easy to bag on the Black Ops and Taco's of the world. And lord knows I have done more than my fair share of that.

Playing some Devil's Advocate here, but once those institutions are caught lying...once their rhetoric is seen as hypocrisy and the data doesn't match what they're selling, it sows distrust.

Which naturally leads to, "why should i trust your knowledge over mine?" "what ulterior motives do you have?"

We can't just dismiss people as crazy all the time. Science, naturally is ever changing. The whole nature of science is to question, change and adapt. So we shouldn't just dismiss those who fly against main stream thought. Truth is that it's a healthy and necessary part of society.

Originally Posted by Carr4MVP

Well, it doesn't help when it has come out that science has been hijacked by governments, companies, and other groups for their purposes.

Big Tobacco, Big Climate Change, COVID, etc have revealed that data gets twisted around for an agenda. Science isn't as pure as people pretend.

Absolutely... and not to nitpick, but you're mostly talking about "the politics of science" as opposed to the actual science.

I see it quite a bit in the publication Scientific American, which I quit reading... they jumped on the political bandwagon "in the name of science".

When science attempts to persuade, it's no longer science... and then of course mainstream media does everything it can to manipulate the science into their own agendas.

And people largely believe what they want anyway.
CDC posts death numbers: Those are fake, "got shot in the head, died of Covid harhar!"

CDC says obese people account for a large percentage of deaths while using the hilarious inaccurate BMI metric: Those numbers are legit, it's just the fat ****s dying!

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

Just to be clear, you guys really tucked tail on that one, right?

It was illegal to call people p-dos, so you just filtered it and now it's ok to call people the filtered word, as well as groomers, which means the same thing. So now, it's worse than ever.

You say you want to clean up the garbage, but instead of actually enforcing one of the few actual rules, you just shrugged it off and made it worse.

I literally called it ridiculous.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

I don't think our goals matter when it comes to freedom of speech. It's a very black and white issue. You either support it or you want to stifle it.

This is a good start for discussion, and I bet we can find common ground. I would argue that free speech should be broad, but that there are some limits that society should enforce. We shouldn't be allowed to yell fire in a theater, slander other people to damage their reputations or livelihoods, or attempt to undermine America through seditious speech. Do you agree or disagree with me?

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

I don't think our goals matter when it comes to freedom of speech. It's a very black and white issue. You either support it or you want to stifle it.

I mean... that's not wrong, but it's also painted with a very broad brush of one being good and one being bad.

You can't scream fire in a crowded movie theater. You can't call the White House and threaten to bomb them. You can't say you might fly a plane into the side of a mountain that's carrying a political figure. You can't just post someone's real name and address here.

And taking away the most vile trolls of the internet isn't exactly a slippery slope to BlackOp America, either.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Carr4MVP

Well, it doesn't help when it has come out that science has been hijacked by governments, companies, and other groups for their purposes.

Big Tobacco, Big Climate Change, COVID, etc have revealed that data gets twisted around for an agenda. Science isn't as pure as people pretend.

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Absolutely... and not to nitpick, but you're mostly talking about "the politics of science" as opposed to the actual science.

I see it quite a bit in the publication Scientific American, which I quit reading... they jumped on the political bandwagon "in the name of science".

When science attempts to persuade, it's no longer science... and then of course mainstream media does everything it can to manipulate the science into their own agendas.

And people largely believe what they want anyway.
CDC posts death numbers: Those are fake, "got shot in the head, died of Covid harhar!"

CDC says obese people account for a large percentage of deaths while using the hilarious inaccurate BMI metric: Those numbers are legit, it's just the fat ****s dying!

I agree on both points. Science is about identifying facts and theories to explain how the world works. How to use that knowledge can sometimes be subjective, and that's a reasonable discussion. My best example would be the ethics of AI and robot design - how should it be implemented?

A key question is why some people are skeptical of some or all announcements of science. Is it possible that some science is falsified? The odds of that are low due to the breadth of the system of science. Is it possible that some science is misrepresented? Yeah, and that's a political issue - you don't distrust science but rather who is telling you about it.

But is all science falsified? No, that's pretty much impossible. And is all science misrepresented? No, that's pretty much impossible as well. I think if someone has a mistrust of everything that is discussed about science, they've fallen prey to the Big Conspiracy of fracturing American society.

[Hammock Parties]

TRUE THE VOTE!

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

This is a good start for discussion, and I bet we can find common ground. I would argue that free speech should be broad, but that there are some limits that society should enforce. We shouldn't be allowed to yell fire in a theater, slander other people to damage their reputations or livelihoods, or attempt to undermine America through seditious speech. Do you agree or disagree with me?

There will always be a need for common sense limits to the rule, but that shouldn't include arbitrary censorship of information that hasn't been proven false in any manner.

[Bowser]

Have we shut down that piece of shit yet, or not?