Life Who is the greatest American villain? - Page 17

**Rain Man** · 05:36 PM

A Charles Manson reference in another thread got me thinking about this. Who is the greatest villain in American history, the one that will draw the most ire from any right-thinking American?

Give me some options and I'll put up a poll. Nominees can come from any category: war, politics, crime, business, finance, celebrity, sports, child care, Benetton models, comic strip artists (Bil Keane, anyone?), or others. Give me your best shot.

The rules:

1. We're talking true villainy here. Villainy where you can't really defend anything the person did at a dinner party without getting winces.

2. We're talking national scale. Remember, the kicker that shall go unnamed is a hero in Indianapolis.

3. Real life only. While many may villainize Elmer Fudd for his relentless and brazen murderous stalking of Bugs Bunny, Mr. Fudd does not actually exist, and therefore any villainous acts committed by Mr. Fudd do not exist, either.

4. The villain must be an American citizen, or if their villainy took place before 1783, a resident of the area that would eventually become the United State AND acting against the United States for villainous reasons rather than sincere loyalty to another country in conflict with nascent American liberty movements or peoples and in the absence of a history of loyalty to American causes.

Once I get 20 reasonable candidates, I'll post the poll.

Nightfyre · 09-01-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOhn

Please, I just have to hear this.

Well, people are quantifying evil in terms of lives taken. Truman, through the use of nuclear weapons took in excess of 200,000 lives, the majority of which were civilian. However, you could qualify that by saying japanese civilians were warriors and that ultimately it saved nearly as many american lives simply through the use of the bomb. I'm just running with the standards of the board here though.
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JOhn · 09-01-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

Well, people are quantifying evil in terms of lives taken. Truman, through the use of nuclear weapons took in excess of 200,000 lives, the majority of which were civilian. However, you could qualify that by saying japanese civilians were warriors and that ultimately it saved nearly as many american lives simply through the use of the bomb. I'm just running with the standards of the board here though.
Posted via Mobile Device

In that case Roosevelt took FAR more lives than Truman ever thought of. Hell throw Curtis LeMay in there also.

And in Truman's defense, he actually saved far more lives by dropping the bomb than would have been lost in continuing Fire Bombing raids & or the invasion of Japan.

crazycoffey · 09-01-2009, 01:23 PM

has anyone mentioned Whitlock yet?

Nightfyre · 09-01-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOhn

In that case Roosevelt took FAR more lives than Truman ever thought of. Hell throw Curtis LeMay in there also.

And in Truman's defense, he actually saved far more lives by dropping the bomb than would have been lost in continuing Fire Bombing raids & or the invasion of Japan.

Interesting. LeMay had the nick name "Demon LeMay" in japan. I think we have a winner!
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Sweet Daddy Hate · 09-01-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOhillbilly

hmmmm i always considered wes hardin more of a cold blooded murderer & wild bill more the iconic shootist.

Shooting a man for snoring too loud is not a crime; it's a public service.

**Rain Man** · 09-01-2009, 01:32 PM

Anyone have thoughts about William Calley? Does he make the cut?

Amnorix · 09-01-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

I'm not defending him so much as pointing out that your knowledge and understanding of history are simplistic at best and imbecilic at worst.

Did you think that I thought the bodies in the street were a bunch of priests?

Spare me. And spare me the condescending attitude. I haven't spent my adult lifetime reading little else but history to have you sit there and act like you're some kind of Harvard history professor. You're the one defending the mass murdering criminal here, not me.

patteeu · 09-01-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJJasonp

When I think "villian"....I dont necessarily think of "killer" per se.....I think of people who are as close to universally hated as possible....so with that in mind:

...
Nikolai Volkov and the Iron Sheik
Shanon Sharpe
...

Oh, good angle. How about:

Barry Manilow
Michael Bolton
Alex Rodriquez
Jeff Gordon

and especially...

Michael Jackson

MOhillbilly · 09-01-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

Hardin was pretty much unequalled in his prowess with a pistol. Even in later life he was still capable of pulling off amazing trick shots. Hickok himself was reluctant to challenge him.

But yes, he was definitely a cold blooded killer.

Ah, i remember that story. Harvey Logan is another bad mofo.

Coach · 09-01-2009, 01:42 PM

Sports agents

Amnorix · 09-01-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Anyone have thoughts about William Calley? Does he make the cut?

mmmm....maybe. Several hundred men, women and children were killed. It's about on par with Wounded Knee though. I guess it depends on what degree of latitude you give for being "at war". I wouldn't be inclined to give too much, so you could definitely make a case for it depending on the standards you want to apply.

patteeu · 09-01-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

No, I put the blame on jefferson davis and abraham lincoln both, thus dividing the total civil war casualties both ways making them co-villains.

Another person you could make a case for is truman.
Posted via Mobile Device

Technically, that's two people.

ClevelandBronco · 09-01-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

Shooting a man for snoring too loud is not a crime; it's a public service.

John Wesley Hardin is an (obviously) distant cousin by marriage. I'm fascinated that he was one of "us." I've enjoyed reading about him. I guess I should be ashamed to admit that he's a member of our family.

BTW: I snore like a water buffalo. I guess I'm glad we didn't live at the same time and in the same hotel.

Nightfyre · 09-01-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

Technically, that's two people.

Right, but if you just reread my first post while imposing my inflection, you totally would see that that's what I said from the start!

I guess I'm just being inconcise.
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MOhillbilly · 09-01-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco

John Wesley Hardin is an (obviously) distant cousin by marriage. I'm fascinated that he was one of "us." I've enjoyed reading about him. I guess I should be ashamed to admit that he's a member of our family.

BTW: I snore like a water buffalo. I guess I'm glad we didn't live at the same time and in the same hotel.

i dated a girl who was also a distant relative.

08-31-2009, 05:15 PM
Rain Man Seize life. Be an ermine. Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $-682449 VARSITY	Who is the greatest American villain? A Charles Manson reference in another thread got me thinking about this. Who is the greatest villain in American history, the one that will draw the most ire from any right-thinking American? Give me some options and I'll put up a poll. Nominees can come from any category: war, politics, crime, business, finance, celebrity, sports, child care, Benetton models, comic strip artists (Bil Keane, anyone?), or others. Give me your best shot. The rules: 1. We're talking true villainy here. Villainy where you can't really defend anything the person did at a dinner party without getting winces. 2. We're talking national scale. Remember, the kicker that shall go unnamed is a hero in Indianapolis. 3. Real life only. While many may villainize Elmer Fudd for his relentless and brazen murderous stalking of Bugs Bunny, Mr. Fudd does not actually exist, and therefore any villainous acts committed by Mr. Fudd do not exist, either. 4. The villain must be an American citizen, or if their villainy took place before 1783, a resident of the area that would eventually become the United State AND acting against the United States for villainous reasons rather than sincere loyalty to another country in conflict with nascent American liberty movements or peoples and in the absence of a history of loyalty to American causes. Once I get 20 reasonable candidates, I'll post the poll. Last edited by Rain Man; 08-31-2009 at 05:36 PM..
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09-01-2009, 01:23 PM	#243
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09-01-2009, 01:32 PM	#246
Rain Man Seize life. Be an ermine. Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $-682449 VARSITY	Anyone have thoughts about William Calley? Does he make the cut? __________________ Active fan of the greatest team in NFL history.
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09-01-2009, 01:42 PM	#250
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