Chiefs I really like our corners right now. - Page 17

Direckshun · 09-29-2016, 07:04 AM

I realize I'm probably going to regret saying this as Big Ben can legitimately carve up even elite secondaries, but two guys have me super impressed, aside from the usual amazing Marcus Peters:

Phillip Gaines. He's got some technique to clean up on, but he's started this season against Hopkins/Fuller and Marshall/Decker (we'll ignore the Chargers, since Keenan Allen was beating the shit out of Peters Week 1) and held his own. These WRs are more savvy than him right now but I'm getting flashbacks to when we started Brandon Carr for his rookie year -- he'll only get better as he gets more experience. His recovery speed is awesome, and he's almost always in the receiver's pocket.

Steven Nelson. What a shock to the system this guy has been -- the staff has handled him absolutely perfectly. Redshirting him last year was just the perfect thing to do, because his versatility in the secondary this year is invaluable. He's playing 100% of the snaps because we can put him on the outside and in the slot, shifting him all over the place on every drive. While, for now, we also play him a lot on special teams. Nelson has challenged everything, and seems to have the superior technique over Gaines. Nelson is also incredibly demonstrative and energetic on the field -- a perfect pairing with Peters, and that is turning out to be a 3rd rounder well spent.

DJ White, also. We have to talk about this kid. He's played like 12 defensive snaps for us so far this year and has made plays on roughly half of them. Like Nelson, he is an incredible competitor and so energetic on the field. His play against the Chargers (on his one snap!) was around the time the defense woke up. I love this kid, I think he's a pistol and he should definitely be in the rotation in dime packages over Sorensen.

The Russell thing still makes no sense to me, but it's really regretful that he didn't wake the **** up because having yet another young corner who can play would have really bulked up this secondary.

My favorite thing about this secondary is my favorite thing about our offensive line, our defensive line, our receivers, and our passrush: barring any tragic injuries, they're going to be so much better in Week 17 than they are now. They'll learn with our great coaching staff, they'll develop with playing time, and they'll gel better as a unit and as Sutton figures out where all the pieces fit.

If we can at least limp into the playoffs with a fully healthy Houston in January, we can hang with absolutely AFC team -- except perhaps the Pats, who seem to have successfully hacked the game of football.

That's our ceiling, though. Pretty exciting.

Steve Sewell · 10-03-2016, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Why is a Bronco fan in this thread?

Did you get amnesia and suddenly forget that the last time Denver went to Pitt they also got ass raped by Big Ben?

They lost that game by 7 points...

kccrow · 10-03-2016, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASS11

I really like our corners right now.

Your sarcasm hit the nail on the head. I think Direkshun was a little premature with this thread after watching last nights debacle.

**Meatloaf** · 10-03-2016, 01:51 PM

Despite last night's sad performance, I still kinda like our secondary. Of course the young guys need more seasoning, I think their skill sets are pretty high. I remember how Kevin Ross got torched in one of his first games; he really used that as motivation for improvement. Hoping to see the same with DJ White. Our vet safeties looked bad yesterday, but they've got a track record that suggests that was outlier-ish. I still like this group, so I'm giving them a ONE TIME pass.

CupidStunt · 10-03-2016, 01:56 PM

The thing with Peters' style is that he's gonna rape the bad QBs, and get raped by the good ones. You can't fool the likes of Big Ben with that bait style. He'll just bomb it over you for 6.

**Bwana** · 10-03-2016, 02:01 PM

**Anyong Bluth** · 10-03-2016, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CupidStunt

The thing with Peters' style is that he's gonna rape the bad QBs, and get raped by the good ones. You can't fool the likes of Big Ben with that bait style. He'll just bomb it over you for 6.

Peters has no business being told to play off his man at the los. He's a press / bump and run cover guy. In college he never played off at the line and excels in jamming and using his physicality to blanket guys. That's on Sutton! If you are asking him to play 2, 4, even 8 yards off his guy, you're setting him up to fail.

I posted the video just a few replies up showing exactly why Sutton is horribly misusing Peters.

ToxSocks · 10-03-2016, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth

Peters has no business being told to play off his man at the los. He's a press / bump and run cover guy. In college he never played off at the line and excels in jamming and using his physicality to blanket guys. That's on Sutton! If you are asking him to play 2, 4, even 8 yards off his guy, you're setting him up to fail.

I posted the video just a few replies up showing exactly why Sutton is horribly misusing Peters.

Bullshit.

Peters' issue is that he he doesn't have great make up speed. They play him off because if the receiver beats the press and there's no safety help up top, it's a big gainer.

Just because you press a receiver doesn't mean that receiver won't beat the press and get behind Peters, who doesn't have the make up speed to recover on those deeps balls. You can't play bump n run every single play, especially against guys like Antonio Brown.

ToxSocks · 10-03-2016, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

Find me a great secondary with a terrible pass rush...

If you have a terrible pass rush, then don't put your corners in man with no safety over the top.

**Anyong Bluth** · 10-03-2016, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Bullshit.

Peters' issue is that he he doesn't have great make up speed. They play him off because if the receiver beats the press and there's no safety help up top, it's a big gainer.

Just because you press a receiver doesn't mean that receiver won't beat the press and get behind Peters, who doesn't have the make up speed to recover on those deeps balls. You can't play bump n run every single play, especially against guys like Antonio Brown.

So you watched the video and disagree?

KranzDictum · 10-03-2016, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I realize I'm probably going to regret saying this as Big Ben can legitimately carve up even elite secondaries, but two guys have me super impressed, aside from the usual amazing Marcus Peters:

Phillip Gaines. He's got some technique to clean up on, but he's started this season against Hopkins/Fuller and Marshall/Decker (we'll ignore the Chargers, since Keenan Allen was beating the shit out of Peters Week 1) and held his own. These WRs are more savvy than him right now but I'm getting flashbacks to when we started Brandon Carr for his rookie year -- he'll only get better as he gets more experience. His recovery speed is awesome, and he's almost always in the receiver's pocket.

Steven Nelson. What a shock to the system this guy has been -- the staff has handled him absolutely perfectly. Redshirting him last year was just the perfect thing to do, because his versatility in the secondary this year is invaluable. He's playing 100% of the snaps because we can put him on the outside and in the slot, shifting him all over the place on every drive. While, for now, we also play him a lot on special teams. Nelson has challenged everything, and seems to have the superior technique over Gaines. Nelson is also incredibly demonstrative and energetic on the field -- a perfect pairing with Peters, and that is turning out to be a 3rd rounder well spent.

DJ White, also. We have to talk about this kid. He's played like 12 defensive snaps for us so far this year and has made plays on roughly half of them. Like Nelson, he is an incredible competitor and so energetic on the field. His play against the Chargers (on his one snap!) was around the time the defense woke up. I love this kid, I think he's a pistol and he should definitely be in the rotation in dime packages over Sorensen.

The Russell thing still makes no sense to me, but it's really regretful that he didn't wake the **** up because having yet another young corner who can play would have really bulked up this secondary.

My favorite thing about this secondary is my favorite thing about our offensive line, our defensive line, our receivers, and our passrush: barring any tragic injuries, they're going to be so much better in Week 17 than they are now. They'll learn with our great coaching staff, they'll develop with playing time, and they'll gel better as a unit and as Sutton figures out where all the pieces fit.

If we can at least limp into the playoffs with a fully healthy Houston in January, we can hang with absolutely AFC team -- except perhaps the Pats, who seem to have successfully hacked the game of football.

That's our ceiling, though. Pretty exciting.

Peters is elite when he can read a QB's eyes, recognize a route and run it for the WR and or break on the Ball. He is getting burned more this year because there is no pressure from the DL in front of him and they are leaving him alone with no help over the top behind him. If he can't read the route his technique breaks down and he guesses. It is all or nothing with him.

Gaines's problem is he is not on the field, he and Nelson are guys that your DC likes, guys he can get to trust him and do sound tech stuff that give them a chance to make plays. Gaines has the better speed. I still think Pitt has their way enroute to an easy win, maybe Gaines doesn't get turned around like White did a couple times.

White is a rook who shouldn't be playing because kc should have brought in a vet depth player after letting Smith walk.

Your CB's will get better once there is a legit pass rush threat to force bad throws. Hali didn't show anything outside of one play last night. I couldn't find Ford on the field most times, and when there was a push Ben would just be Ben and move.

Who is your other safety? Last year it was Parker, both safeties were invisible last night. That also hurts CB play because the DC is trying to be cute blitzing them, manning them up at the LOS, or going cover 1 instead of Cover 2 or even Cover 3.

Take away the pressure and a good CB corp becomes average and an avg CB corp gets toasted.

Hammock Parties · 10-03-2016, 04:27 PM

Sean Smith: not as bad as you think

DBs w/ lowest burn %

Claiborne 38%
Trufant 38
Bradberry 41
J.McCourty 41
Nelson 41
C.Harris 44
Newman 44
Norman 47
Sean Smith 47
Porter 48
— Gil Brandt (@Gil_Brandt) September 30, 2016

Pasta Little Brioni · 10-03-2016, 04:31 PM

But still bad.

jspchief · 10-03-2016, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

If you have a terrible pass rush, then don't put your corners in man with no safety over the top.

Adjust? Never heard of it.

kccrow · 10-03-2016, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

If you have a terrible pass rush, then don't put your corners in man with no safety over the top.

Don't go talking logic, that's just absurd.

jspchief · 10-03-2016, 08:19 PM

How many young corners has Sutton done this to? You'd think at some point he might anticipate teams picking on these guys.

09-29-2016, 07:04 AM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2033447	I really like our corners right now. I realize I'm probably going to regret saying this as Big Ben can legitimately carve up even elite secondaries, but two guys have me super impressed, aside from the usual amazing Marcus Peters: Phillip Gaines. He's got some technique to clean up on, but he's started this season against Hopkins/Fuller and Marshall/Decker (we'll ignore the Chargers, since Keenan Allen was beating the shit out of Peters Week 1) and held his own. These WRs are more savvy than him right now but I'm getting flashbacks to when we started Brandon Carr for his rookie year -- he'll only get better as he gets more experience. His recovery speed is awesome, and he's almost always in the receiver's pocket. Steven Nelson. What a shock to the system this guy has been -- the staff has handled him absolutely perfectly. Redshirting him last year was just the perfect thing to do, because his versatility in the secondary this year is invaluable. He's playing 100% of the snaps because we can put him on the outside and in the slot, shifting him all over the place on every drive. While, for now, we also play him a lot on special teams. Nelson has challenged everything, and seems to have the superior technique over Gaines. Nelson is also incredibly demonstrative and energetic on the field -- a perfect pairing with Peters, and that is turning out to be a 3rd rounder well spent. DJ White, also. We have to talk about this kid. He's played like 12 defensive snaps for us so far this year and has made plays on roughly half of them. Like Nelson, he is an incredible competitor and so energetic on the field. His play against the Chargers (on his one snap!) was around the time the defense woke up. I love this kid, I think he's a pistol and he should definitely be in the rotation in dime packages over Sorensen. The Russell thing still makes no sense to me, but it's really regretful that he didn't wake the **** up because having yet another young corner who can play would have really bulked up this secondary. My favorite thing about this secondary is my favorite thing about our offensive line, our defensive line, our receivers, and our passrush: barring any tragic injuries, they're going to be so much better in Week 17 than they are now. They'll learn with our great coaching staff, they'll develop with playing time, and they'll gel better as a unit and as Sutton figures out where all the pieces fit. If we can at least limp into the playoffs with a fully healthy Houston in January, we can hang with absolutely AFC team -- except perhaps the Pats, who seem to have successfully hacked the game of football. That's our ceiling, though. Pretty exciting.
Posts: 59,693

10-03-2016, 01:51 PM	#243
Meatloaf Supporter Join Date: Feb 2013 Casino cash: $2000359	Despite last night's sad performance, I still kinda like our secondary. Of course the young guys need more seasoning, I think their skill sets are pretty high. I remember how Kevin Ross got torched in one of his first games; he really used that as motivation for improvement. Hoping to see the same with DJ White. Our vet safeties looked bad yesterday, but they've got a track record that suggests that was outlier-ish. I still like this group, so I'm giving them a ONE TIME pass.
Posts: 3,128

10-03-2016, 01:56 PM	#244
CupidStunt offense > defense Join Date: Jul 2005 Casino cash: $-746668	The thing with Peters' style is that he's gonna rape the bad QBs, and get raped by the good ones. You can't fool the likes of Big Ben with that bait style. He'll just bomb it over you for 6.
Posts: 9,016

10-03-2016, 02:01 PM	#245
Bwana It's Five O'Clock Somewhere Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Billings, Montana Casino cash: $2135843647	Ouch __________________ Adventure is dangerous....but monotony can kill you.
Posts: 70,494

10-03-2016, 04:27 PM	#251
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $810478	Sean Smith: not as bad as you think DBs w/ lowest burn % Claiborne 38% Trufant 38 Bradberry 41 J.McCourty 41 Nelson 41 C.Harris 44 Newman 44 Norman 47 Sean Smith 47 Porter 48 — Gil Brandt (@Gil_Brandt) September 30, 2016 __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,426

10-03-2016, 04:31 PM	#252
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $178880	But still bad. __________________ **Official TFWdemB Trivia Commisioner**
Posts: 73,005

10-03-2016, 08:19 PM	#255
jspchief BAMF Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Your Face Casino cash: $9998710	How many young corners has Sutton done this to? You'd think at some point he might anticipate teams picking on these guys. __________________ Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all.
Posts: 27,207