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Old 10-19-2017, 10:12 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Fire Bob Sutton
That is all.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:10 PM   #2536
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That's kind of what I come back to with him, when he had the horses, the defenses were pretty solid at worst and damn good at best.

Look around the league at the top defenses. Not many guys are making chicken salad out of shit on those elite D"s. The Bears are just stacked, the Cowboys have been building that for a while and the Ravens may be the most sound and physical group of the bunch of em.

It's give and take. You've gotta hit on some picks and get some luck to be that way on both sides of the ball. We just haven't had that
Some guys, like Wade Phillips for example, have literally been handed a tub of Grade A premium chicken salad and can't get it to the plate without dropping a bunch on the floor.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:17 PM   #2537
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The playoffs was exactly why we did what we did.

The Titans took the ball at half, threw our defense around the field and simply kept the offense dry-docked. We got four possessions in that second half. The offense didn't do much with them but their margin for error was zero and their rhythm was understandably ****ed.

The problem was that a team went out there and did what the Ravens just did - they said "**** this, we're just going to run it every time" and proceeded to fish our D and keep the O off the field.

For the 2nd half of that Ravens game, everything looked identical. Our offense went flat and our Defense got shoved around too much. Hell, we even got the obligatory FG miss in there. The difference is that our defense got 3 stops on Sunday. It wasn't good, but it was juuuuust good enough to get us that 4th possession with a chance to tie. Last year's defense didn't get a single stop in that 2nd half and that made all the difference.

The defense saw a virtually identical scenario to last season's playoff debacle and it was just enough better under virtually identical circumstances to keep us in it. And the offense, also clearly better, came up with that 4th quarter drive that Smith and company couldn't come up with last season.

The 'why' of what they did this off-season is easy enough. They were simply unwilling to put themselves in a situation where an opponent could go out there and choke the life out of them. They're not much better at avoiding that, mind you. But they were just better enough to pull off the W.

Was the juice worth the squeeze? Probably not. But you can see why they did what they did and there WERE some gains made.
Except they weren't better at it. That game was a loss under any other scenario. Patrick Mahomes single-handedly won that game. Patrick Mahomes would have won the playoff game last year.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:18 PM   #2538
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Elite defenses get shredded in a one game setting. Offenses look like shit.

It happens in a single elimination setting. An oblong ball bounces weird.
Yeah no....
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:19 PM   #2539
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Except they weren't better at it. That game was a loss under any other scenario. Patrick Mahomes single-handedly won that game. Patrick Mahomes would have won the playoff game last year.
And there it is....

The Ravens game was a guaranteed loss for ANY chiefs team in the last 35 years or more...

ONLY reason we won yesterday is because of Mahomes...
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:23 PM   #2540
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Yeah no....
Minnesota had an elite defense last year. They gave up 31 points to Foles.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:26 PM   #2541
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Except they weren't better at it. That game was a loss under any other scenario. Patrick Mahomes single-handedly won that game. Patrick Mahomes would have won the playoff game last year.
Yes they were.

They forced 3 stops in 7 possessions. Last year's team got zero stops in 4.

That's better. They came up with a huge 4th down stop. They forced a quick punt after that debacle deep in Ravens territory yielded nothing. They stopped a drive that could've easily yielded a game-winning FG.

They absolutely did a better job than last year's team did in virtually identical situations. With last year's performance, Mahomes never gets that ball with a chance to tie; they'd have ended that game down 2 scores.

They weren't great by any stretch but again - they were just a little better.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:28 PM   #2542
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And there it is....

The Ravens game was a guaranteed loss for ANY chiefs team in the last 35 years or more...

ONLY reason we won yesterday is because of Mahomes...
If this year's defense would've done what last year's playoff defense did, even Mahomes couldn't have saved them.

Hell, if last year's defense could've forced a single turnover on downs, they'd have advanced with Alex Smith under center. This year's version got a turnover on downs and a MASSIVE turnover.

Mahomes was the key reason, but if you don't have at least a little but of production from your defense in the 2nd half, he never gets a shot to be the hero. It doesn't take away from what he did, but it is what it is.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:30 PM   #2543
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You guys are completely missing the point.

I freaking KNOW nobody expected Mahomes to turn in an historic season. I'm not suggesting and have never suggested that the staff should have been been prepared for this season exactly as it has played out.
You're confusing. You rant with such intensity and passion then say "That's not what I meant."


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Old 12-11-2018, 02:32 PM   #2544
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Yeah, I thought the defense was actually better than they had been against he Ravens. Granted my expectations aren't exactly stellar, but they stood tall and got some stops.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:34 PM   #2545
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You're confusing. You rant with such intensity and passion then say "That's not what I meant."


There's a HUGE difference between "that's not what I said" and that's "not what I meant".

I EXPLICITLY typed "that's not what I said" which implies you're reading something into what I said that I absolutely didn't.

I can't help it that you simply can't comprehend what's being said.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:38 PM   #2546
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If this year's defense would've done what last year's playoff defense did, even Mahomes couldn't have saved them.

Hell, if last year's defense could've forced a single turnover on downs, they'd have advanced with Alex Smith under center. This year's version got a turnover on downs and a MASSIVE turnover.

Mahomes was the key reason, but if you don't have at least a little but of production from your defense in the 2nd half, he never gets a shot to be the hero. It doesn't take away from what he did, but it is what it is.
You're conveniently leaving out that the Chiefs were up 21-3 at the half and despite the defensive shortfall had the ball four times in the 2nd half.

They managed 21 plays for 56 yards (half of which came on the last drive when they had already blown the lead) and despite getting the ball from a muffed punt at the Tennessee 28 yard line, ZERO points.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:39 PM   #2547
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Yeah, I thought the defense was actually better than they had been against he Ravens. Granted my expectations aren't exactly stellar, but they stood tall and got some stops.
They stopped the Ravens 6 times out of 10.

I mean it's obviously not the '85 Bears, but for a team clearly built around it's offense, that will play.

If you promised me 6 stops per postseason game - no fewer and no more - I'd take it. And if you promised me a 60% stop rate (that's not even FGs mind you - just a flat out drive with no scores), I'd absolutely take that.

Embrace the reality here folks - this team is going to have to win with its offense. If this defense gets stops on 60% of its possessions, that's doing its job.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:41 PM   #2548
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They stopped the Ravens 6 times out of 10.

I mean it's obviously not the '85 Bears, but for a team clearly built around it's offense, that will play.

If you promised me 6 stops per postseason game - no fewer and no more - I'd take it. And if you promised me a 60% stop rate (that's not even FGs mind you - just a flat out drive with no scores), I'd absolutely take that.

Embrace the reality here folks - this team is going to have to win with its offense. If this defense gets stops on 60% of its possessions, that's doing its job.
And this is a completely different story if Butker makes either of those two FGs. The defense set up the offense at the end of regulation and got ****ed.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:41 PM   #2549
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And this is a completely different story if Butker makes either of those two FGs. The defense set up the offense at the end of regulation and got ****ed.
Yep.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:42 PM   #2550
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You're conveniently leaving out that the Chiefs were up 21-3 at the half and despite the defensive shortfall had the ball four times in the 2nd half.

They managed 21 plays for 56 yards (half of which came on the last drive when they had already blown the lead) and despite getting the ball from a muffed punt at the Tennessee 28 yard line, ZERO points.
No I'm not. Hell, I specifically noted that the Chiefs offense had the ball 4 times in the Titans game, just as they did the Ravens game. And that the improvement by the offense is a huge part of why they won. Seriously - did you actually read anything I wrote?

I'm speaking directly to the 2nd half of those games. "For the 2nd half of the Ravens game..." was the entire thesis of my post. The Chiefs were absolutely not going to allow that 2nd half of the Titans game to happen again and it showed in the 2nd half of the Ravens game. I explicitly chose not to reference the 1st half of the Titans game because the Titans didn't play the same style of offense in that half. They were trying to play it 'straight up' and it wasn't working. That's why they got behind and that's why they changed it up. They exposed a fundamental weakness that the Chiefs were attempting to address.

And in the end, those efforts - if only showing improvement in the margins - DID show improvement. If the Chiefs defense had played the 2nd half of the Ravens game as poorly as they played the 2nd half of the Titans games - they'd have lost. Had the Titans played the first half of the game like they played the 2nd half, they'd have won going away. It was all about addressing a specific style of play and in so doing, they made some headway.
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