I am a GOOD American - Page 18

05-05-2001, 04:44 PM

I am your best friend. I am a GOOD American.

I like big cars, big hooters, and big paychecks. I believe that the money I make belongs to me and my family, but I recognize that it is to my benefit if as many people as possible get fed, clothed, and get a good education, so I don’t mind having to pay taxes. I recognize that I live in a society that makes it possible for me to live so nicely, and I’m ok with giving back to that society.

I am in touch with my feelings. I know who I am. I’m not afraid of facing the truth, even when it is ugly. I don’t believe that anyone has ever died because of something that Ozzy Osbourne sang, though I recognize that children are impressionable, so I do my best to be a good role model for those who might look for me to be one. I don’t believe that owning a gun makes you a killer, though I have no problem with gun control. I think licensing handguns is a good idea that would hurt nobody but the lazy, and that if you think that licensing is the first step to confiscation, then you really don’t know what America is all about. Don’t tread on me with your ignorance.

I don’t think that being a minority makes you noble or victimized, but I recognize that this country was built in large part by slaves who paid the way for a lot of the rich families of this country. Like I said before, I’m not afraid of facing the truth, even when it is ugly. I realize that this land was stolen from the Indians who lived on it before us. I think it’s a shame when people marginalize the sacrifices that the American Indians gave up for this great country.

I believe that graduating from college is the best thing you can do for yourself, and I don’t care how you pay for it. I believe that anyone who really wants to graduate from college can… Where there’s a will, there’s a way. Don’t come crying to me because you trapped yourself in a factory job and bought a really cool car before you put a serious investment in yourself. But don’t worry, I pay taxes to help people like you if you did. And I’m more than happy to do so, sitting in my office with a view, and diplomas on the wall.

I believe that my daughter is just as smart as your son. She could probably kick his *** too, if she put her mind to it. And it will be over my dead body that you deny her of the same opportunities that your son should enjoy. This is America, and females are Americans too.

I am happy to see that President Bush is doing his weekly addresses in both English and Spanish. America is the land of the diverse, and if you can’t handle that, then you are in the wrong place. I'm against the weekly presidential radio address being in ebonics though.

I am my own hero. I don’t need to look to anyone but my God, myself, and my family for strength. I like watching television, but I’m not going to make fictional characters my heroes. You can pretend that you’re John Wayne if you want. My little son thinks that he’s a cowboy too. When he gets old enough, he’ll realize that there is no such thing as a cowboy anymore… Just farmers, and God bless them all.

I believe that every vote should count, and I’m not fooled by the results of this last election. I’ll accept it, but I believe the next time we should actually VOTE the president in. It was a tough situation, and I can see both sides. I’m not going to pretend that one side or the other was wrong or right, but I will say that the Supreme Court shouldn’t have acted so visibly biased. The solutions are out there if you bother to look for them in every instance, including this one.

You can be proud of yourself for being a BAD American if that’s what you are. I’ll choose to be proud of being a GOOD American, because that’s what I am.

KCTitus · 05-09-2001, 02:47 PM

I never said you said that...that was not aimed at you as I did not use your name...sound familiar.

Now, I have addressed your points in my earlier post. Im not taking sides nor am I trying to make an argument.

What you have observed is not true and I asked you to re-read the earlier posts. Now, I could repost the exact text, but since you misread them the first time, what good would it be to re-post the same text only to be misread by you.

As far as 'unloading' on my bosnia mistake--fire away. It really doesnt make one hill of beans difference because IT DOESNT MATTER.

The issue was regarding ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION not Civil war.

DiscoJones · 05-09-2001, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Fraz was speaking to illegal immigration

Fair enough. I just think that his (frazod's) sweeping generalizations regarding the people who live on his street was a bad example for this discussion. Try to follow me on this one - and you don't have to answer. Do you think that Fraz has done thorough background checks on all the people in his neighborhood and determined that an overly proportionate amount of them were illegal? And how would Fraz. know for sure? How would tighter enforcement of immigration laws keep legal Mexican immigrants from celebrating May 5th and speaking Spanish in their own neighborhoods?

DiscoJones · 05-09-2001, 03:07 PM

Quote:

The issue was regarding ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION not Civil war.

And civil war is where we will be if this issue is left to fester. I am not asking you to agree or disagree with any particular sentiment regarding the treatment of Mexicans legal or illegal.

I am asking you to try to see my perspective. That the sentiments expressed on this thread resemble seeds that could grow to promote a civil war in this country. Many people expressed frustration. This frustration could very well lead to action. No?

oleman47 · 05-09-2001, 03:12 PM

This thread is nothing but racial profiling. The question is, is racial profiling racist? Many posters agree that if you see a Mexican he is automatically an illegal.

DiscoJones · 05-09-2001, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Many posters agree that if you see a Mexican he is automatically an illegal.

And that is very unfortunate Oleman. Still nobody has answered your question regarding how to tell the difference. I already admitted that I can't.

And I don't care who's GOP or DNC. I can see how some people would call Frazod racist, but I can also see how some people would call him nationalist (because illegals are not a race; they are made up of many different races, but as fas as I know, they aren't their own race yet).

I do think it is interesting that he used sweeping generalizations about the people in his neighborhood. Further, I will say that legal Mexican immigrants have every right to speak Spanish in their neighborhoods - free speech is a protected right for all. Does that mean that every citizen has to learn Spanish in order to accommodate them? No.

KCTitus · 05-09-2001, 03:26 PM

Many posters do not agree, that's a false statement--and it's designed merely to put one on the defensive. Same as calling all posters who think illegal immigration is wrong 'racist'.

Frustration can lead to action, yes. Hopefully action that is a little more constructive than taking the law into ones own hands.

There has been no one advocating vigilantism or a call to it.

As far as olemans question, it's a diversion. No one was speaking to that and I have answered the question several times.

KCTitus · 05-09-2001, 03:31 PM

Disco: I think just as bad as Frazod's sweeping generalizations is olemans continued pounding of the racist drum. for an example, see the 'conservatives' topic.

Pathetic.

Rick Stephens · 05-09-2001, 04:10 PM

Disco,

Here in the People's Republic of Kalifornia there is a battle going on between the city of Anaheim and a civil rights group who do not like the fact that the INS has an officer at the Anaheim city jail. When these people are caught commiting crimes they get deported. The civil rights group says the Mexicans are being singled out but that is not the case. They are criminals for being here illegally and it is just not Mexicans that are being deported.

If they want to speak spanish in their homes and neighborhoods that is one thing. But when I go to a place of business why should I be expected to speak their language. I had one ask me one day if I spoke Spanish, when I told him no, he ask me why not. I don't think it is my responsibility to speak their language in my country.

Illegal immagration is a major problem that needs to be addressed. We need to tighten our borders and if we need to use the military so be it. They have built walls along the border by San Diego that have forced the illegals further out into the desert. Every year some of these people die from heat and dehydration and the Mexican government tries to blame us for it. When these people die in the desert no one should be blamed but themselves. When these people go to apply for any type of assistence they should be denied. When they try to enroll their children in our schools they should be denied. Here in The People's Republic of Kalifornia when the voters overwhelming voted to cut off all aid to illegals a liberial judge said that was unconstitional. Show me where in the Constitution of the United States where it says we need to support the world.

DiscoJones · 05-09-2001, 04:27 PM

Titus - Good point. I think that the racism remarks arise from misunderstanding the nationalistic intent laced with generalizations. I think the point was made earlier in the thread that generalizations applied to a race is racism. I don't think it is clear to everyone (myself included) when some statements are intended only for illegals - if they are made as statements about "Mexicans", "Chinese", whatever.

Rick - First paragraph sounds like one of the best solutions I have heard yet. Not only are you getting rid of illegals, you're most likely getting rid of illegals who have commited other crimes. And somebody stop me here if I'm wrong, but don't legal citizens even give up their rights once they are merely accused of a crime.

Second para touches on a very blurry subject. All I can say is that the Canadians have been battling this problem for a lot longer than we have (with regard to French instead of Spanish) and it has almost split the country.

Third para is good as well. Walls sound like one of the most economically feasible solutions. I think that more should be done to address the problems of Mexico as well. However, I get the impression that there are some very wealthy and powerful people who see it in their best interest to keep Mexico subordinate - cheap labor now that NAFTA is in effect would be just one reason.

DiscoJones · 05-09-2001, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Hopefully action that is a little more constructive than taking the law into ones own hands.

And I couldn't agree more. Good points on your post, Titus. I see where you are coming from on the BB agreement. I don't think a definitive concensus was reached on that issue. I just think it is unfortunate when people can't distinguish between the legals and illegals.

HC_Chief · 05-09-2001, 04:48 PM

Someone please explain to me why we need to shut down immigration. Seriously - what is the problem? Most studies show immigrants, on average, draw welfare and unemployment benifits less than 'nationals'.

These people want to come here to better themselves and to povide better lives for their families. They want to work hard, get a decent education, and escape persecution. As long as they speak English(it IS the mother-tongue of the US), work, and abide by our laws, I have absolutely no problem with them.

All of our ancestors immigrated here. All of them faced obsticles - all of them faced prejudices - and all of them assimilated and became part of this nation's cultural heritage. It's been going on for the past 200+ years - it would be a bad thing, IMO, to try and stop it. Read the inscription on the plaque at Ellis Island some time... it says it all.

Frazod · 05-09-2001, 04:59 PM

Oh great, I see I've been compared to yet another dictator by yet another pinhead liberal. Who will I be tomorrow? Mussolini? The Shah of Iran? The Emperor from Star Wars, perhaps? I'm getting really sick of being singled out as the devil by you people. GET OVER IT.

And where did I ever say that every Mexican in my neighborhood was an illegal alien? How the hell could I know that? Pardon me, but I don't go door-to-door asking for friggin green cards. What I do know is that the vast majority of the people in this neighborhood are hispanic - I assume the are mostly Mexicans because I see Mexican flags everywhere I look. I know some of you are a bit logic challenged, but this conclusion isn't really much of a stretch. I also know from my day-to-day dealings with these people that many of them don't speak English, either because they can't or won't. I also know there is a lot of crime in my neighborhood, gang graffiti and the like, and while it may be perpetrated by some offshoot of the remnants of Bugs Moran's Irish northside gang, somehow I doubt it.

I want the borders of this country guarded against the endless tide of illegal immigration. I want illegals that are here sent back where they belong. I NEVER SAID I WANTED THEM ALL ROUNDED UP AND SHOT. This all stems from something I said when I came home half-plastered on Saturday night, to the effect of "put a couple of army divisions on the border and shoot anything that tries to cross it." This would follow the assumption that anyone illegally crossing the border would know what they were asking for, and would be warned to turn back. Only then would they be fired on, and they'd damn well have no one to blame for it but themselves. They don't belong here, and should be kept out, preferably peacefully, but by force if necessary. Of course, Taco took this to mean I wanted all Mexicans shot, and ever since I've been the univeral stomping boy for every do-gooder with a computer and internet access.

And no, Disco, I do NOT support our country's actions in Serbia, Albania, or anywhere else where our servicemen (and I was once one of them) who are supposed to be defending OUR country get killed for bunch of foreigners who've been slaughtering each other for generations. I don't care if they whack each other. It's not my business, and in my view there isn't one of them alive worth a drop of American blood. All these idiots over here who protest about foreign injustices should, IMO, shut the fuck up, get on a plane, pick up a rifle and fight their own damn battles.

How you made the jump from a foreign civil war to illegal immigration is as baffling to me as how you can liken me to Milosovec. The last time I checked, the only creatures on Earth I have dictatorial power over are MY fuckING CATS, and they don't pay attention to me half the time, anyway.

So stop putting words in my mouth. No one but you is buying it.

HC_Chief · 05-09-2001, 05:04 PM

fraz - the Shah was on our side...

Rick Stephens · 05-09-2001, 05:12 PM

H C Chief,

If you read this thread all the way through you will find no one say's to cut off immigration. This is about illegal immigration. There are ways for people to come to our country legally and there are some who come illegally. Are we not a nation of laws? Why should people wait for their paper work and applications to be processed and come here legally, when others sneak across the border. Do we not have immigration laws? If people who come here illegally don't have to obey the laws of our land, then why should anyone obey them?

05-09-2001, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Stephens
Disco,

If they want to speak spanish in their homes and neighborhoods that is one thing. But when I go to a place of business why should I be expected to speak their language.

Who's forcing you to do business with anyone? You have ultimate control over who you do business with. It's an illagitamate argument.

If I don't like a business, I don't patronize it. Simple as that.

05-05-2001, 04:44 PM
Taco John Guest Casino cash: $	I am your best friend. I am a GOOD American. I like big cars, big hooters, and big paychecks. I believe that the money I make belongs to me and my family, but I recognize that it is to my benefit if as many people as possible get fed, clothed, and get a good education, so I don’t mind having to pay taxes. I recognize that I live in a society that makes it possible for me to live so nicely, and I’m ok with giving back to that society. I am in touch with my feelings. I know who I am. I’m not afraid of facing the truth, even when it is ugly. I don’t believe that anyone has ever died because of something that Ozzy Osbourne sang, though I recognize that children are impressionable, so I do my best to be a good role model for those who might look for me to be one. I don’t believe that owning a gun makes you a killer, though I have no problem with gun control. I think licensing handguns is a good idea that would hurt nobody but the lazy, and that if you think that licensing is the first step to confiscation, then you really don’t know what America is all about. Don’t tread on me with your ignorance. I don’t think that being a minority makes you noble or victimized, but I recognize that this country was built in large part by slaves who paid the way for a lot of the rich families of this country. Like I said before, I’m not afraid of facing the truth, even when it is ugly. I realize that this land was stolen from the Indians who lived on it before us. I think it’s a shame when people marginalize the sacrifices that the American Indians gave up for this great country. I believe that graduating from college is the best thing you can do for yourself, and I don’t care how you pay for it. I believe that anyone who really wants to graduate from college can… Where there’s a will, there’s a way. Don’t come crying to me because you trapped yourself in a factory job and bought a really cool car before you put a serious investment in yourself. But don’t worry, I pay taxes to help people like you if you did. And I’m more than happy to do so, sitting in my office with a view, and diplomas on the wall. I believe that my daughter is just as smart as your son. She could probably kick his *** too, if she put her mind to it. And it will be over my dead body that you deny her of the same opportunities that your son should enjoy. This is America, and females are Americans too. I am happy to see that President Bush is doing his weekly addresses in both English and Spanish. America is the land of the diverse, and if you can’t handle that, then you are in the wrong place. I'm against the weekly presidential radio address being in ebonics though. I am my own hero. I don’t need to look to anyone but my God, myself, and my family for strength. I like watching television, but I’m not going to make fictional characters my heroes. You can pretend that you’re John Wayne if you want. My little son thinks that he’s a cowboy too. When he gets old enough, he’ll realize that there is no such thing as a cowboy anymore… Just farmers, and God bless them all. I believe that every vote should count, and I’m not fooled by the results of this last election. I’ll accept it, but I believe the next time we should actually VOTE the president in. It was a tough situation, and I can see both sides. I’m not going to pretend that one side or the other was wrong or right, but I will say that the Supreme Court shouldn’t have acted so visibly biased. The solutions are out there if you bother to look for them in every instance, including this one. You can be proud of yourself for being a BAD American if that’s what you are. I’ll choose to be proud of being a GOOD American, because that’s what I am.
Posts: n/a	1 0

05-09-2001, 02:47 PM	#256
KCTitus Archivist Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ethernet Casino cash: $9882732	I never said you said that...that was not aimed at you as I did not use your name...sound familiar. Now, I have addressed your points in my earlier post. Im not taking sides nor am I trying to make an argument. What you have observed is not true and I asked you to re-read the earlier posts. Now, I could repost the exact text, but since you misread them the first time, what good would it be to re-post the same text only to be misread by you. As far as 'unloading' on my bosnia mistake--fire away. It really doesnt make one hill of beans difference because IT DOESNT MATTER. The issue was regarding ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION not Civil war.
Posts: 26,199

05-09-2001, 03:12 PM	#259
oleman47 Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Wichita Casino cash: $10004900	This thread is nothing but racial profiling. The question is, is racial profiling racist? Many posters agree that if you see a Mexican he is automatically an illegal.
Posts: 512

05-09-2001, 03:26 PM	#261
KCTitus Archivist Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ethernet Casino cash: $9882732	Many posters do not agree, that's a false statement--and it's designed merely to put one on the defensive. Same as calling all posters who think illegal immigration is wrong 'racist'. Frustration can lead to action, yes. Hopefully action that is a little more constructive than taking the law into ones own hands. There has been no one advocating vigilantism or a call to it. As far as olemans question, it's a diversion. No one was speaking to that and I have answered the question several times.
Posts: 26,199

05-09-2001, 03:31 PM	#262
KCTitus Archivist Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ethernet Casino cash: $9882732	Disco: I think just as bad as Frazod's sweeping generalizations is olemans continued pounding of the racist drum. for an example, see the 'conservatives' topic. Pathetic.
Posts: 26,199

05-09-2001, 04:10 PM	#263
Rick Stephens #1 Chiefs Collector Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Garden Grove, California Casino cash: $10004900	Disco, Here in the People's Republic of Kalifornia there is a battle going on between the city of Anaheim and a civil rights group who do not like the fact that the INS has an officer at the Anaheim city jail. When these people are caught commiting crimes they get deported. The civil rights group says the Mexicans are being singled out but that is not the case. They are criminals for being here illegally and it is just not Mexicans that are being deported. If they want to speak spanish in their homes and neighborhoods that is one thing. But when I go to a place of business why should I be expected to speak their language. I had one ask me one day if I spoke Spanish, when I told him no, he ask me why not. I don't think it is my responsibility to speak their language in my country. Illegal immagration is a major problem that needs to be addressed. We need to tighten our borders and if we need to use the military so be it. They have built walls along the border by San Diego that have forced the illegals further out into the desert. Every year some of these people die from heat and dehydration and the Mexican government tries to blame us for it. When these people die in the desert no one should be blamed but themselves. When these people go to apply for any type of assistence they should be denied. When they try to enroll their children in our schools they should be denied. Here in The People's Republic of Kalifornia when the voters overwhelming voted to cut off all aid to illegals a liberial judge said that was unconstitional. Show me where in the Constitution of the United States where it says we need to support the world.
Posts: 291

05-09-2001, 04:27 PM	#264
DiscoJones The kick is up, it's GOOD Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	Titus - Good point. I think that the racism remarks arise from misunderstanding the nationalistic intent laced with generalizations. I think the point was made earlier in the thread that generalizations applied to a race is racism. I don't think it is clear to everyone (myself included) when some statements are intended only for illegals - if they are made as statements about "Mexicans", "Chinese", whatever. Rick - First paragraph sounds like one of the best solutions I have heard yet. Not only are you getting rid of illegals, you're most likely getting rid of illegals who have commited other crimes. And somebody stop me here if I'm wrong, but don't legal citizens even give up their rights once they are merely accused of a crime. Second para touches on a very blurry subject. All I can say is that the Canadians have been battling this problem for a lot longer than we have (with regard to French instead of Spanish) and it has almost split the country. Third para is good as well. Walls sound like one of the most economically feasible solutions. I think that more should be done to address the problems of Mexico as well. However, I get the impression that there are some very wealthy and powerful people who see it in their best interest to keep Mexico subordinate - cheap labor now that NAFTA is in effect would be just one reason.
Posts: 246

05-09-2001, 04:48 PM	#266
HC_Chief That's just f***in' stupid Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: suburbia Casino cash: $3687107	Someone please explain to me why we need to shut down immigration. Seriously - what is the problem? Most studies show immigrants, on average, draw welfare and unemployment benifits less than 'nationals'. These people want to come here to better themselves and to povide better lives for their families. They want to work hard, get a decent education, and escape persecution. As long as they speak English(it IS the mother-tongue of the US), work, and abide by our laws, I have absolutely no problem with them. All of our ancestors immigrated here. All of them faced obsticles - all of them faced prejudices - and all of them assimilated and became part of this nation's cultural heritage. It's been going on for the past 200+ years - it would be a bad thing, IMO, to try and stop it. Read the inscription on the plaque at Ellis Island some time... it says it all. Last edited by HC_Chief; 05-09-2001 at 04:56 PM..
Posts: 12,355

05-09-2001, 04:59 PM	#267
Frazod Did you hear what I said? Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-826615	Oh great, I see I've been compared to yet another dictator by yet another pinhead liberal. Who will I be tomorrow? Mussolini? The Shah of Iran? The Emperor from Star Wars, perhaps? I'm getting really sick of being singled out as the devil by you people. GET OVER IT. And where did I ever say that every Mexican in my neighborhood was an illegal alien? How the hell could I know that? Pardon me, but I don't go door-to-door asking for friggin green cards. What I do know is that the vast majority of the people in this neighborhood are hispanic - I assume the are mostly Mexicans because I see Mexican flags everywhere I look. I know some of you are a bit logic challenged, but this conclusion isn't really much of a stretch. I also know from my day-to-day dealings with these people that many of them don't speak English, either because they can't or won't. I also know there is a lot of crime in my neighborhood, gang graffiti and the like, and while it may be perpetrated by some offshoot of the remnants of Bugs Moran's Irish northside gang, somehow I doubt it. I want the borders of this country guarded against the endless tide of illegal immigration. I want illegals that are here sent back where they belong. I NEVER SAID I WANTED THEM ALL ROUNDED UP AND SHOT. This all stems from something I said when I came home half-plastered on Saturday night, to the effect of "put a couple of army divisions on the border and shoot anything that tries to cross it." This would follow the assumption that anyone illegally crossing the border would know what they were asking for, and would be warned to turn back. Only then would they be fired on, and they'd damn well have no one to blame for it but themselves. They don't belong here, and should be kept out, preferably peacefully, but by force if necessary. Of course, Taco took this to mean I wanted all Mexicans shot, and ever since I've been the univeral stomping boy for every do-gooder with a computer and internet access. And no, Disco, I do NOT support our country's actions in Serbia, Albania, or anywhere else where our servicemen (and I was once one of them) who are supposed to be defending OUR country get killed for bunch of foreigners who've been slaughtering each other for generations. I don't care if they whack each other. It's not my business, and in my view there isn't one of them alive worth a drop of American blood. All these idiots over here who protest about foreign injustices should, IMO, shut the fuck up, get on a plane, pick up a rifle and fight their own damn battles. How you made the jump from a foreign civil war to illegal immigration is as baffling to me as how you can liken me to Milosovec. The last time I checked, the only creatures on Earth I have dictatorial power over are MY fuckING CATS, and they don't pay attention to me half the time, anyway. So stop putting words in my mouth. No one but you is buying it. Last edited by Frazod; 05-09-2001 at 05:10 PM..
Posts: 121,788

05-09-2001, 05:04 PM	#268
HC_Chief That's just f***in' stupid Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: suburbia Casino cash: $3687107	fraz - the Shah was on our side...
Posts: 12,355

05-09-2001, 05:12 PM	#269
Rick Stephens #1 Chiefs Collector Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Garden Grove, California Casino cash: $10004900	H C Chief, If you read this thread all the way through you will find no one say's to cut off immigration. This is about illegal immigration. There are ways for people to come to our country legally and there are some who come illegally. Are we not a nation of laws? Why should people wait for their paper work and applications to be processed and come here legally, when others sneak across the border. Do we not have immigration laws? If people who come here illegally don't have to obey the laws of our land, then why should anyone obey them?
Posts: 291