DJ Moore to Chiefs?

[KingPriest2]

Rumors are coming out he wants out of Carolina. And one of the teams coming up are the Chiefs

What’s your thoughts?

[Urc Burry]

Star trades in the middle of the season are rare, so it’s barely even worth talking about. But I would absolutely trade for Burns. We are in the middle of the pack cap wise next year, before any cuts/restructures. The cap is projected to rise 20 mil a year. We could absolutely make it work.

If you landed Burns your D is absolutely set for the next 3-4 years. We are extremelyyy young on that side with the only aging asset being Jones at 28. If you could craft the perfect compliment to karlaftis in a lab it’s Burns. Have I mentioned he’s 24?

Like I said, he’s only 24 on a rebuilding team, so it wouldn’t be wise to trade him. But if he is indeed getting moved I’m all for Veach being aggressive

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Bolton or Gay isn't really a hard choice for me. One is the leader and centerpiece of the defense.

The other is a supreme athlete who for one reason or another cant seem to stay on the field.

It's not that hard for me, definitely not anymore.

Think of how many power/speed LBers were in the draft this year. Leo Chenal measures just like Gay did. You can't swing a cat without hitting a 240 lb guy that runs a 4.5 anymore. There were at least a half dozen of them in the last draft.

But guys who simply STOP people like Bolton are hard to find. And he has a nose for getting through traffic. He's just a freakin football player.

You're gonna have an easier time finding another fast backer than you're gonna have finding another Nick Bolton. Especially when Bolton's traits just don't show on tape. Then you think about his learning curve vs. Gay's and you just see a completely different animal.

It always takes longer than it should with off-ball players, but by next year he's going to be seen as one of the best linebackers in the league. It's Bolton in a walk for me at this point.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

It's not ideal, I agree.

But you also have to factor in how good this regime has been at drafting players in the mid and later rounds.

The thing they've struggled finding (obviously) is guys like Burns, which makes sense because they don't typically get drafted where we pick.

Look at it this way, would you trade Karlaftis and CEH for Burns?

When you consider the contract, it's not Karlaftis and CEH for Burns.

It's Karlaftis, Burns and Sneed (and probably more than that).

It's the contract, not the player.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It's not that hard for me, definitely not anymore.

Think of how many power/speed LBers were in the draft this year. Leo Chenal measures just like Gay did. You can't swing a cat without hitting a 240 lb guy that runs a 4.5 anymore. There were at least a half dozen of them in the last draft.

But guys who simply STOP people like Bolton are hard to find. And he has a nose for getting through traffic. He's just a freakin football player.

You're gonna have an easier time finding another fast backer than you're gonna have finding another Nick Bolton. Especially when Bolton's traits just don't show on tape. Then you think about his learning curve vs. Gay's and you just see a completely different animal.

It always takes longer than it should with off-ball players, but by next year he's going to be seen as one of the best linebackers in the league. It's Bolton in a walk for me at this point.

Yeah, my thoughts are the same.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It's not that hard for me, definitely not anymore.

Think of how many power/speed LBers were in the draft this year. Leo Chenal measures just like Gay did. You can't swing a cat without hitting a 240 lb guy that runs a 4.5 anymore. There were at least a half dozen of them in the last draft.

But guys who simply STOP people like Bolton are hard to find. And he has a nose for getting through traffic. He's just a freakin football player.

You're gonna have an easier time finding another fast backer than you're gonna have finding another Nick Bolton. Especially when Bolton's traits just don't show on tape. Then you think about his learning curve vs. Gay's and you just see a completely different animal.

It always takes longer than it should with off-ball players, but by next year he's going to be seen as one of the best linebackers in the league. It's Bolton in a walk for me at this point.

It's Bolton IF we have to choose. I'm not convinced that's gong to be the case, though.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

When you consider the contract, it's not Karlaftis and CEH for Burns.

It's Karlaftis, Burns and Sneed (and probably more than that).

It's the contract, not the player.

Probably.

But as we talked about with Bolton and Gay somewhat, positionally, what's gonna be harder to find? I don't think it's out of turn to think Burns could be a "lead the league in sacks" kinda guy out there. Now, that's not necessarily something you have to have to win in the league.

But I would think I'd rather pay for that vs a slot CB or a ILB.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by O.city

Probably.

But as we talked about with Bolton and Gay somewhat, positionally, what's gonna be harder to find? I don't think it's out of turn to think Burns could be a "lead the league in sacks" kinda guy out there. Now, that's not necessarily something you have to have to win in the league.

But I would think I'd rather pay for that vs a slot CB or a ILB.

The problem is you could get a slot CB, an ILB, AND probably another player for the cost of one Brian Burns.

[BWillie]

I'm not a cap person but if we could somehow swing this guy we go from could win the Super Bowl to we WILL win the Super Bowl.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by BWillie

I'm not a cap person but if we could somehow swing this guy we go from could win the Super Bowl to we WILL win the Super Bowl.

The cap is the biggest reason we really can't swing it.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Probably.

But as we talked about with Bolton and Gay somewhat, positionally, what's gonna be harder to find? I don't think it's out of turn to think Burns could be a "lead the league in sacks" kinda guy out there. Now, that's not necessarily something you have to have to win in the league.

But I would think I'd rather pay for that vs a slot CB or a ILB.

Sneed's not really a slot CB. He plays wide in base and moves inside in the Nickel.

He's a CB1. He's versatile in coverage, great in run support and is a fiend on the blitz.

Jones has been our best defensive player this year but the 2 spot comes down to Sneed or Bolton and I think an argument can be made for either one.

Now on the flipside - CBs are EXPENSIVE in their own right. When Sneed's due a new deal, he's gonna cost more than someone like Ward did. Probably nearer the $15-17 million mark. And like you said, we've had a lot of success finding CBs, so are we better served throwing Sneeds cap money at Burns (given that he'll probably cost 80% of what Burns does) and using the draft to replace Sneed? Well now you're pivoting back to 'yeah, but we've just given up a massive chunk of draft capital to acquire Burns...'

So again - it's the contract AND the picks that create the issue. The same issue I screamed bloody murder about with Clark.

I'm not exactly saying there's a clear right answer - just that you have to approach this sort of thing with both eyes open. Your approach is potentially higher reward, but it's undeniably higher risk. Man, we just absolutely cannot have another Frank Clark situation here. That would've rat-****ed us if we didn't have so many positive cap situations at the time - cap situations that are largely gone now.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

The problem is you could get a slot CB, an ILB, AND probably another player for the cost of one Brian Burns.

Eh...I don't think so.

Like I said, a guy like Sneed costs 80% of Burns. Unless Sneed slipped through the cracks into that Carlton Davis tier, but I don't think most evaluators would have him there. If he plays the rest of this year and next like he's played to this point, I'm guessing he's gonna approach $20 million/season in AAV. I'd love to get him signed early because I think the market will love what he's able to do out there.

As for ILB, CJ Mosely got $17 million/yr, Fred Warner $19 million, Zach Cunningham $15 million. Bolton, if he's not in that class yet, will be there by his FA season.

Sneed and Bolton combined costs more than Burns. And we seem better at finding guys at those positions in the draft than we do at DL.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Eh...I don't think so.

Like I said, a guy like Sneed costs 80% of Burns. Unless Sneed slipped through the cracks into that Carlton Davis tier, but I don't think most evaluators would have him there. If he plays the rest of this year and next like he's played to this point, I'm guessing he's gonna approach $20 million/season in AAV. I'd love to get him signed early because I think the market will love what he's able to do out there.

As for ILB, CJ Mosely got $17 million/yr, Fred Warner $19 million, Zach Cunningham $15 million. Bolton, if he's not in that class yet, will be there by his FA season.

Sneed and Bolton combined costs more than Burns. And we seem better at finding guys at those positions in the draft than we do at DL.

I wasn't talking about Sneed or Bolton, though. Just talking in general.

I see your point, I just don't see any way to trade for Burns and not end up in a jam eventually. I'm just not down with it.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Sneed's not really a slot CB. He plays wide in base and moves inside in the Nickel.

He's a CB1. He's versatile in coverage, great in run support and is a fiend on the blitz.

Jones has been our best defensive player this year but the 2 spot comes down to Sneed or Bolton and I think an argument can be made for either one.

Now on the flipside - CBs are EXPENSIVE in their own right. When Sneed's due a new deal, he's gonna cost more than someone like Ward did. Probably nearer the $15-17 million mark. And like you said, we've had a lot of success finding CBs, so are we better served throwing Sneeds cap money at Burns (given that he'll probably cost 80% of what Burns does) and using the draft to replace Sneed? Well now you're pivoting back to 'yeah, but we've just given up a massive chunk of draft capital to acquire Burns...'

So again - it's the contract AND the picks that create the issue. The same issue I screamed bloody murder about with Clark.

I'm not exactly saying there's a clear right answer - just that you have to approach this sort of thing with both eyes open. Your approach is potentially higher reward, but it's undeniably higher risk. Man, we just absolutely cannot have another Frank Clark situation here. That would've rat-****ed us if we didn't have so many positive cap situations at the time - cap situations that are largely gone now.

They just drafted 3 CB's in this last draft, gotta think that wasn't on accident with this in mind.

Sneed would be a tough one to lose. He's so versatile he really makes it go. But some of them will be gone, it's just the way of the sport. So if I could have this year and next with all of them and a Burns type guy, it atleast makes me think about it.

But it would depend on the cost.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I wasn't talking about Sneed or Bolton, though. Just talking in general.

I see your point, I just don't see any way to trade for Burns and not end up in a jam eventually. I'm just not down with it.

I guess the question for me comes, to some extent, to how good Burns truly is.

Because if the conversation were Myles Garrett my answer would be 'make the money work and back-fill at tier 2 positions as able...'

Garrett, Parsons, Bosa, Crosby, Bosa - those are guys who I'd almost certainly say 'damn the torpedoes' on, make the deal and consider the cap issue a problem for future DJLN to deal with...

But Brian Burns hasn't been obviously better than, say, Kwity Paye this year. And he's really a pure pass-rusher - okay, well he's not really better at that than someone like Dante Fowler.

Is he really just a rich man's Samson Ebukam?

I just really wish we'd have given the position more attention in the draft. Did the Bills get immediate dividends from Rousseau and Basham? No, not immediate - but a year later they've arguably been the best pass-rush duo in the league.

(P.S. Jadeveon Clowney has been really good this year....)

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I guess the question for me comes, to some extent, to how good Burns truly is.

Because if the conversation were Myles Garrett my answer would be 'make the money work and back-fill at tier 2 positions as able...'

Garrett, Parsons, Bosa, Crosby, Bosa - those are guys who I'd almost certainly say 'damn the toraudioes' on, make the deal and consider the cap issue a problem for future DJLN to deal with...

But Brian Burns hasn't been obviously better than, say, Kwity Paye this year. And he's really a pure pass-rusher - okay, well he's not really better at that than someone like Dante Fowler.

Is he really just a rich man's Samson Ebukam?

I just really wish we'd have given the position more attention in the draft. Did the Bills get immediate dividends from Rousseau and Basham? No, not immediate - but a year later they've arguably been the best pass-rush duo in the league.

(P.S. Jadeveon Clowney has been really good this year....)

Man, I will have to look more into him then. I put him up there with those guys. Maybe I'm off.

But in terms of the Bills guys, they do look alot better but the Bills also added another pass rusher who takes some pressure off there. Clowney would have been the perfect add.....oh well.