BigCat's Top 5 At 21 - Page 2

BigCatDaddy · 03-09-2011, 02:00 PM

I'm a little underwhelmed at the lack of talent in this years draft, but as of right now come draft day here are the guys I'm pulling for at #21.

1. Phil Taylor - At some point this position HAS to be addresses in this defense. Taylor has huge upside here and basically offers us something we don't have on this team. A legit 3-4 NT. There are other guys later in the draft, but probably not the game changer Taylor can be.

2 Ryan Mallett - Here comes the boom or bust factor. This guys scares the hell out of me, but he has the best NFL arm I've seen in quite some time. I would applaud any effort at upgrading the QB position through the draft and you will never find a better arm at 21.

3. Torrey Smith - Our WR's are slower then dirt and Torrey is the perfect compliment to Bowe and should be able to get seperation. I think we are talking Maclin V2 right here. Smith, Bowe, Moe, Charles, McCluster is a lot of toys to play with on offense.

4. Martez Wilson - Team speed is still a major problem with this defense and Wilson upgrades that quite a bit over Belcher.

5. Justin Houston - A very good player at a major position of need. I wouldn't be thrilled by this pick ,but would just sit back and think "blah, but makes sense".

Chris Meck · 03-10-2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

Mallet not only has a gun, but can put the ball on the money like Warner did. He is the leader Warner was? Hell no, but not many are. Like I said I'm 50/50 on the kid, but I would be super excited if he picked him up and just to see what he can do. He might be Grbac part II, but Elvis lead some pretty damn good offenses.

The difference between Warner and Grbac is that Warner led teams to the SB, Grbac led teams nowhere.

If it was about having a big, accurate arm then the Jeff George's of the world would win all the games.

when adversity strikes, and it will, in most games and certainly every season-and for damned sure in a play-off game, then the leadership abilities and intangibles are what separates the greats from the never-was's.

BigCatDaddy · 03-10-2011, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

The difference between Warner and Marino is that Warner led teams to the SB, Marino led teams nowhere.

If it was about having a big, accurate arm then the Dan Marino's of the world would win all the games.

when adversity strikes, and it will, in most games and certainly every season-and for damned sure in a play-off game, then the leadership abilities and intangibles are what separates the greats from the never-was's.

FYP

Not that I'm sold on this kid at all, but in the right place I think he can do well. I think he at least does for Baltimore what Flacco has done for example.

suds79 · 03-10-2011, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Joe Montana had a weak arm and lacked ideal size, though he did throw an accurate ball.

Montana was the best but let's not act like he's the rule and not the exception.

For every Joe Montana, there's about 10 Chad Penningtons. Smart, solid (and some not so solid) QBs who were limited physically.

Maybe it's not a huge factor but you cannot deny when you defend against the likes of Big Ben or a Joe Flacco that there's more of the field you have to defend because they can put the ball anywhere on the field. It's an advantage and a factor.

We just had a SB where the two QBs are about as physically gifted as they come. Now of course they're vets and have had time to really become experts of their craft so seasoning like that takes time.

Sure above all else, I want my QB to be smart & quick in decision making. I think that's skill #1. And Mallett probably needs some time to mature and refine his game.

That's why he's going in the 2nd round and probably won't start in this league for a couple of years. 100% agree with Mel Kiper in that you can't compare Mallett to Leaf because Ryan Mallett isn't going #2 overall.

As a 2nd rounder, the risk is much, much less.

Saccopoo · 03-10-2011, 02:52 PM

Good thread BigCat. Here's my top five wish list for the the Chiefs at #21:

1. Derrek Sherrod, OT; Mississippi State: 6'5", 321 lbs.

- An athletic and smart four year starter (RT his freshman year, LT the rest). Excellent footwork and hands. Very effective is neutralizing speed rushers and has the size and strength to be very effective in the run. Will be able to play either side in the NFL, and has a chance to be a top tier left tackle. A combination of Carimi and Costanzo - not as good in run blocking as Carimi but a better pass blocker; not as good in pass blocking as Costanzo, but a better run blocker.

2. Jonathan Baldwin, WR; Pitt: 6'4", 228 lbs.

- Faster 40 than AJ Green. 6" higher vertical than Hankerson. Better broad jump and two inch bigger hands than Torrey Smith (who wins the 2011 NFL Draft Jimmy "Small Hands" Clausen award - I'd never draft a receiver with 8 1/2" hands.) Baldwin, at least on paper, is the best receiver in this draft. Huge, fast, enormous hands and can go up and get the ball. I think he's a steal at #21.

3. Christian Ponder, QB; Florida State: 6'3", 229 lbs.

- A cerebral quarterback (Already has his bachelors, masters and is working on his PhD) that has excellent pocket presence and the ability to quickly assess his progressions. Ponder has bounced up and down in the mocks from first round to third because of numerous injuries the last couple of years. After a stellar Senior Bowl and Combine, where he showed deft touch on his passes and a good understanding of routes, he's moved back up the charts. I think he's a perfect quarterback for Haley's system and well worth the reach at #21. If you are to believe the draft pundits, he won't be there in the second round for the Chiefs.

4. Phil Taylor, NT; Baylor: 6'3", 335 lbs.

- Taylor has always had the size and skills, he just never used them in college to be a dominant defensive tackle. Last year, he was a third/fourth rounder. However, it's pay day, and the real Phil Taylor has decided to show up, dominating the Senior Bowl, the Combine and his Pro Day. I think he's got more potential than BJ Raji, and I'm putting my faith in Romeo Crennel to get this guy to play to his potential. It worked for Derrick Johnson, Sean Smith and Glenn Dorsey...

5. Anthony Costanzo, OT; Boston College: 6'7", 311 lbs.

- Academic All-American (bio-chemistry major) and four year starter for the Eagles (holds the record for most career starts at BC). A well-coached and fundamentally sound tackle that has very good feet and has an uncanny ability to game plan and adjust against a defender real time. Plays nasty and is a vocal team leader (2010 Team Captain).

Dark Horse:

Brooks Reed, OLB/DE; Arizona: 6'3", 260 lbs.

- Reed is kind of a late bloomer, not doing much until his senior season and really exploding at the Senior Bowl and Combine, where he showed nice react times when they dropped him back in passing drills. Very stong, and is capable of blowing through blockers to get to the ball. Could be this years version of Clay Matthews or Koa Misi.

milkman · 03-10-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suds79

Montana was the best but let's not act like he's the rule and not the exception.

For every Joe Montana, there's about 10 Chad Penningtons. Smart, solid (and some not so solid) QBs who were limited physically.

Maybe it's not a huge factor but you cannot deny when you defend against the likes of Big Ben or a Joe Flacco that there's more of the field you have to defend because they can put the ball anywhere on the field. It's an advantage and a factor.

We just had a SB where the two QBs are about as physically gifted as they come. Now of course they're vets and have had time to really become experts of their craft so seasoning like that takes time.

Sure above all else, I want my QB to be smart & quick in decision making. I think that's skill #1. And Mallett probably needs some time to mature and refine his game.

That's why he's going in the 2nd round and probably won't start in this league for a couple of years. 100% agree with Mel Kiper in that you can't compare Mallett to Leaf because Ryan Mallett isn't going #2 overall.

As a 2nd rounder, the risk is much, much less.

And for every Aaron Rogers there's about 10 David Carr's.

When looking at QBs, I want the guy that plays smart, if I have to choose between the smart kid that's less physically gifted and the dumbass that's more physically gifted.

suds79 · 03-11-2011, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

And for every Aaron Rogers there's about 10 David Carr's.

When looking at QBs, I want the guy that plays smart, if I have to choose between the smart kid that's less physically gifted and the dumbass that's more physically gifted.

Agreed. Definitely take smarts/quick decision making above all else. That is skill #1. Believe it or not, we're mostly on the same page here.

I'm not going to kill anybody who's not on the Mallett bandwagon. There's probably enough question marks to scare anybody off and I get that.

But for me, I keep going back to that's why he's a 2nd rounder and not a high 1st. At that point I'm willing to take the chance. I mean thus far our last year's 2nd rounders are looking pretty rough right now. Do we want that? Of course not. But it won't kill the team either if they don't work out. Not like missing on a high 1st round pick. So it's okay IMO to take a shot.

There's other QBs I'm interested also. Ex: Dalton, Ponder, Stanzi.

I think it's imperative that the Chiefs start looking for the next QB down the line a year or two down the road should Matt bomb which I think is a decent chance. Not much confidence in his game.

Chiefnj2 · 03-11-2011, 09:28 AM

I'm not saying Mallett performs really well under pressure but:

411 pass attempts, 32 TDs and 12 INTs.

Gabbert
475 attempts, 16 TDs and 9 INTs.

Is the almost 3:1 ratio of Mallett better than the less than 2:1 ratio of Gabbert?
Mallett has a 7.78 TD%, while Gabbert has 3.37%.

Mallett's ceiling seems to be much, much higher.
Has there ever been a QB taken first, or in the top 5 with only 16 TDs his last year? Seems awfully low.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-11-2011, 09:44 AM

Chiefnj and BigCatDaddy echoing the same talking points.

Chiefnj2 · 03-11-2011, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Chiefnj and BigCatDaddy echoing the same talking points.

16 TD passes from a spread QB is somewhat pathetic.

Newton has 30 TD passes in 280 attempts, while Gabbert has 16 in 475, yet everyone questions Newton's intelligence and accuracy.

Gabbert appears to have underachieved.

______
Here is an article that spent a lot of time analyzing Gabbert from a statistical point of view:

http://fantasyfootballmetrics.com/Pl..._2-17-2011.htm

BigCatDaddy · 03-11-2011, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Chiefnj and BigCatDaddy echoing the same talking points.

If this wasn't an MU QB you would be making the same points.

BigCatDaddy · 03-11-2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

16 TD passes from a spread QB is somewhat pathetic.

Newton has 30 TD passes in 280 attempts, while Gabbert has 16 in 475, yet everyone questions Newton's intelligence and accuracy.

Gabbert appears to have underachieved.

______
Here is an article that spent a lot of time analyzing Gabbert from a statistical point of view:

http://fantasyfootballmetrics.com/Pl..._2-17-2011.htm

I would take the guy at 21 and probably several other QB's, but anyone that doesn't think his lack luster numbers aren't a concern are sucking on a black and gold ball sac.

He's a huge gamble for a team. It's easy to explain away why you choose Mallet or Newton if they bust out. Great college performers, big time arms, and talents. If Gabbert bust you look like a moron for taking a mediocre college QB and thinking he will do more in the NFL.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-11-2011, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

16 TD passes from a spread QB is somewhat pathetic.

Newton has 30 TD passes in 280 attempts, while Gabbert has 16 in 475, yet everyone questions Newton's intelligence and accuracy.

Gabbert appears to have underachieved.

______
Here is an article that spent a lot of time analyzing Gabbert from a statistical point of view:

http://fantasyfootballmetrics.com/Pl..._2-17-2011.htm

Anyone who watched MU games will know that one of the reasons why the team had so few TD passes was due to the obstinacy of Yost's goal line packages, and the inability of Gabbert's receivers to break big plays.

If your goal line offense consists of nothing but bubble screens and jet sweeps, you aren't going to throw a lot of short TD passes, and if you don't have receivers who can make people miss or win one on one, you aren't going to get long TD passes either.

Daniel had the second in spades. Gabbert didn't.

It's really that simple.

**The Franchise** · 03-11-2011, 01:48 PM

P. Taylor
J. Baldwin
B. Reed
L. Hankerson
G. Carimi

Nightfyre · 03-11-2011, 03:33 PM

I like the use of statistics to make sweeping generalizations on the part of nj. He reallly solidifies his position by not once making mention of the fact that he is talking out of his ass cuz he hasn't watched one football game.

Bewbies · 03-11-2011, 03:42 PM

Gabbert reminds me of Stafford, who is probably the one guy in the last 5 years I've wanted us to get most. He zips the ball into extremely tight windows, which is what QB's have to do in the NFL. It's amazing in a year we only win 2 games we land the #3 overall pick.

03-09-2011, 02:00 PM
BigCatDaddy The Beast Inside Your Head Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $1469122	BigCat's Top 5 At 21 I'm a little underwhelmed at the lack of talent in this years draft, but as of right now come draft day here are the guys I'm pulling for at #21. 1. Phil Taylor - At some point this position HAS to be addresses in this defense. Taylor has huge upside here and basically offers us something we don't have on this team. A legit 3-4 NT. There are other guys later in the draft, but probably not the game changer Taylor can be. 2 Ryan Mallett - Here comes the boom or bust factor. This guys scares the hell out of me, but he has the best NFL arm I've seen in quite some time. I would applaud any effort at upgrading the QB position through the draft and you will never find a better arm at 21. 3. Torrey Smith - Our WR's are slower then dirt and Torrey is the perfect compliment to Bowe and should be able to get seperation. I think we are talking Maclin V2 right here. Smith, Bowe, Moe, Charles, McCluster is a lot of toys to play with on offense. 4. Martez Wilson - Team speed is still a major problem with this defense and Wilson upgrades that quite a bit over Belcher. 5. Justin Houston - A very good player at a major position of need. I wouldn't be thrilled by this pick ,but would just sit back and think "blah, but makes sense".
Posts: 25,945

03-10-2011, 02:52 PM	#19
Saccopoo Kindness in words... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zion Casino cash: $10025483	Good thread BigCat. Here's my top five wish list for the the Chiefs at #21: 1. Derrek Sherrod, OT; Mississippi State: 6'5", 321 lbs. - An athletic and smart four year starter (RT his freshman year, LT the rest). Excellent footwork and hands. Very effective is neutralizing speed rushers and has the size and strength to be very effective in the run. Will be able to play either side in the NFL, and has a chance to be a top tier left tackle. A combination of Carimi and Costanzo - not as good in run blocking as Carimi but a better pass blocker; not as good in pass blocking as Costanzo, but a better run blocker. 2. Jonathan Baldwin, WR; Pitt: 6'4", 228 lbs. - Faster 40 than AJ Green. 6" higher vertical than Hankerson. Better broad jump and two inch bigger hands than Torrey Smith (who wins the 2011 NFL Draft Jimmy "Small Hands" Clausen award - I'd never draft a receiver with 8 1/2" hands.) Baldwin, at least on paper, is the best receiver in this draft. Huge, fast, enormous hands and can go up and get the ball. I think he's a steal at #21. 3. Christian Ponder, QB; Florida State: 6'3", 229 lbs. - A cerebral quarterback (Already has his bachelors, masters and is working on his PhD) that has excellent pocket presence and the ability to quickly assess his progressions. Ponder has bounced up and down in the mocks from first round to third because of numerous injuries the last couple of years. After a stellar Senior Bowl and Combine, where he showed deft touch on his passes and a good understanding of routes, he's moved back up the charts. I think he's a perfect quarterback for Haley's system and well worth the reach at #21. If you are to believe the draft pundits, he won't be there in the second round for the Chiefs. 4. Phil Taylor, NT; Baylor: 6'3", 335 lbs. - Taylor has always had the size and skills, he just never used them in college to be a dominant defensive tackle. Last year, he was a third/fourth rounder. However, it's pay day, and the real Phil Taylor has decided to show up, dominating the Senior Bowl, the Combine and his Pro Day. I think he's got more potential than BJ Raji, and I'm putting my faith in Romeo Crennel to get this guy to play to his potential. It worked for Derrick Johnson, Sean Smith and Glenn Dorsey... 5. Anthony Costanzo, OT; Boston College: 6'7", 311 lbs. - Academic All-American (bio-chemistry major) and four year starter for the Eagles (holds the record for most career starts at BC). A well-coached and fundamentally sound tackle that has very good feet and has an uncanny ability to game plan and adjust against a defender real time. Plays nasty and is a vocal team leader (2010 Team Captain). Dark Horse: Brooks Reed, OLB/DE; Arizona: 6'3", 260 lbs. - Reed is kind of a late bloomer, not doing much until his senior season and really exploding at the Senior Bowl and Combine, where he showed nice react times when they dropped him back in passing drills. Very stong, and is capable of blowing through blockers to get to the ball. Could be this years version of Clay Matthews or Koa Misi. Last edited by Saccopoo; 03-10-2011 at 03:04 PM..
Posts: 15,450

03-11-2011, 09:28 AM	#22
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $7813688	I'm not saying Mallett performs really well under pressure but: 411 pass attempts, 32 TDs and 12 INTs. Gabbert 475 attempts, 16 TDs and 9 INTs. Is the almost 3:1 ratio of Mallett better than the less than 2:1 ratio of Gabbert? Mallett has a 7.78 TD%, while Gabbert has 3.37%. Mallett's ceiling seems to be much, much higher. Has there ever been a QB taken first, or in the top 5 with only 16 TDs his last year? Seems awfully low. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,396

03-11-2011, 09:44 AM	#23
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7919572	Chiefnj and BigCatDaddy echoing the same talking points. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,860

03-11-2011, 01:48 PM	#28
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2575047	P. Taylor J. Baldwin B. Reed L. Hankerson G. Carimi
Posts: 92,316

03-11-2011, 03:33 PM	#29
Nightfyre MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Helena, MT Casino cash: $3258849	I like the use of statistics to make sweeping generalizations on the part of nj. He reallly solidifies his position by not once making mention of the fact that he is talking out of his ass cuz he hasn't watched one football game.
Posts: 18,571

03-11-2011, 03:42 PM	#30
Bewbies Ith Fuhtbawl Time Join Date: Apr 2010 Casino cash: $9999900	Gabbert reminds me of Stafford, who is probably the one guy in the last 5 years I've wanted us to get most. He zips the ball into extremely tight windows, which is what QB's have to do in the NFL. It's amazing in a year we only win 2 games we land the #3 overall pick.
Posts: 10,085