Chiefs I see Pioli taking a lot of the blame for last year's piss-ass offseason - Page 2

**RealSNR** · 03-25-2010, 06:55 PM

And I agree that he deserves most of it.

But are we leaving out Todd Haley in this situation? Remember, we don't quite know about Todd. He might actually be more reeruned than Herm. Nobody really knows.

To me, it's also kind of a Catch-22 here. If Todd Haley thought Tyson Jackson was a good pick, and that signing Goff and Mike Brown were good ideas and cutting Pollard and moving to the 3-4 were all good ideas, then he deserves some blame. I mean, he thought these abysmal ideas were good. But then if he didn't think these ideas were good, they still happened under his watch, and his head coaching job during the season reflected entirely Pioli's plan for how a football team should look. And in that case, Todd deserves blame ANYWAY for being a spineless bastard and giving in wholeheartedly to the wishes of Scott Pioli, who would not take any part in building the team, coaching them, improving them, and making the final product on gameday.

EyePod · 03-25-2010, 07:50 PM

Haley had less time with the Chiefs than Pioli did. He wasn't hired until really late.

Chiefnj2 · 03-25-2010, 07:52 PM

Haley is a moron.

Firing Chan a week before the season and throwing an additional 20 blocking schemes on your team = moron. Continued shuffling of players so nobody could get in synch = moron. Not playing guys like Wade Smith more often = moron. Playcalling sucked. I forget exactly but wasn't it until week 14 that KC was able to score a 1st quarter TD? So, to answer your question, yes, Haley is a moron. Hopefully Crennel and Weis can dope smack him.

EyePod · 03-25-2010, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

He's in that war room.

Dick Vermeil had PLENTY of say in his drafts. Same with Herm. It's not like coaches blindly take the players that the GM gives them and are expected to mold a football team out of whatever they have.

Dick Vermeil had more clout at the time too.

EyePod · 03-25-2010, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Haley is a moron.

Firing Chan a week before the season and throwing an additional 20 blocking schemes on your team = moron. Continued shuffling of players so nobody could get in synch = moron. Not playing guys like Wade Smith more often = moron. Playcalling sucked. I forget exactly but wasn't it until week 14 that KC was able to score a 1st quarter TD? So, to answer your question, yes, Haley is a moron. Hopefully Crennel and Weis can dope smack him.

Can you agree that Haley improved over the season? It was his first god damned HC job, and he bit off more than he chew. But got better at it as the season went on. I'm not going to hate on him for improving. And also doubling the wins of the team.

EyePod · 03-25-2010, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

4/8/28

Never forget.

April 8th 2028?

Chiefnj2 · 03-25-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyePod

Can you agree that Haley improved over the season? It was his first god damned HC job, and he bit off more than he chew. But got better at it as the season went on. I'm not going to hate on him for improving. And also doubling the wins of the team.

Certainly not. They lost 6 of their last 7, didn't they? Two of those losses must have been by 20 points each. A bad loss to Cleveland, and to Buffalo? No, it didn't get better as the season went on, unless one game against Denver is your watermark.

EyePod · 03-25-2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Certainly not. They lost 6 of their last 7, didn't they? Two of those losses must have been by 20 points each. A bad loss to Cleveland, and to Buffalo? No, it didn't get better as the season went on, unless one game against Denver is your watermark.

I'd say the fact that he seemed to learn from earlier mistakes (playing JC and DJ for example). Also, leaving the line alone and not making them switch from week to week... I thought playcalling got better towards the end of the season too.

**HemiEd** · 03-25-2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Haley is a moron.

Firing Chan a week before the season and throwing an additional 20 blocking schemes on your team = moron. Continued shuffling of players so nobody could get in synch = moron. Not playing guys like Wade Smith more often = moron. Playcalling sucked. I forget exactly but wasn't it until week 14 that KC was able to score a 1st quarter TD? So, to answer your question, yes, Haley is a moron. Hopefully Crennel and Weis can dope smack him.

I think he still rates in the "Top 10 NFL Rooke Head Coaches for 2009, without having been a player, or previous HC, while carrying a better than average golf handicap" catagory.

EyePod · 03-25-2010, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I think he still rates in the "Top 10 NFL Rooke Head Coaches for 2009, without having been a player, or previous HC, while carrying a better than average golf handicap" catagory.

LOL Only top 10?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-25-2010, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyePod

I'd say the fact that he seemed to learn from earlier mistakes (playing JC and DJ for example). Also, leaving the line alone and not making them switch from week to week... I thought playcalling got better towards the end of the season too.

He didn't learn from his mistake with Charles. He literally had no other choice other than Jackie Battle and Dantrel Savage.

aturnis · 03-25-2010, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Haley is a moron.

Firing Chan a week before the season and throwing an additional 20 blocking schemes on your team = moron. Continued shuffling of players so nobody could get in synch = moron. Not playing guys like Wade Smith more often = moron. Playcalling sucked. I forget exactly but wasn't it until week 14 that KC was able to score a 1st quarter TD? So, to answer your question, yes, Haley is a moron. Hopefully Crennel and Weis can dope smack him.

Would you rather he had waited until this offseason to instill the new zone blocking scheme and take our lumps in year 2? Essentially the Oline would be back to square one. I'd rather have suffered the growing pains in a year when we weren't expecting to improve than to waste a year when we should be a better team to strip them down for rebuilding.

FD · 03-25-2010, 08:24 PM

The whole idea behind the "Patriot way" was this mind-meld between coach and personnel man. Thus, the question is what was really going on:

Scenario A: Belichick was the brains behind it all.

Pioli was in the right place at the right time and cashed in. In search of the "Patriot way" he picked a coach that he felt he would agree with on most things, someone from the same coaching tree, but really just someone young and inexperienced, who would let him call all the shots and not question it. Also, a dumbass, who has no business being a head coach (at least not at this point in his career). Trying to replicate his success in New England, he hires the coordinators that were also there, who have mostly failed since leaving, hugely reaches for a defensive lineman in his first draft and takes the backup New England QB because he's got a great attitude towards the game, but not much else.

Scenario B: Pioli was the brains.

Haley is an up-and-coming coach (fresh off a Superbowl run) who Pioli could achieve the all important mind-meld with. Despite a rough start, Haley has what it takes to be very successful in this league with help from two top notch coordinators. He showed improved playcalling and judgement as the season went on. In Pioli's first draft he ignored the trendy advice and took a cornerstone player of a revamped 3-4 defense. He signed a QB who showed a lot of potential in his first starting season to a front-loaded contract and could cut his losses if it didn't work out and brought in veteran leadership to change the culture.

I tend to be a perpetual optimist and lent strongly in favor of scenario B initially. The evidence so far has mostly supported scenario A. This next season should pretty well clarify things. I'm trying to make the point that Haley and Pioli should be judged together, because of this philosophy thats been brought over from New England. If Haley stinks, Pioli does, and vice versa.

EyePod · 03-25-2010, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

He didn't learn from his mistake with Charles. He literally had no other choice other than Jackie Battle and Dantrel Savage.

He admitted his mistake for not playing JC and DJ. I'd say that's learning from it.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 03-25-2010, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

If Haley's a moron, then it's on Pioli for hiring the dumb sonofabitch.

It ALL starts at the top( minus your absentee owner of course ).

Chiefnj2 · 03-25-2010, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

Would you rather he had waited until this offseason to instill the new zone blocking scheme and take our lumps in year 2? Essentially the Oline would be back to square one. I'd rather have suffered the growing pains in a year when we weren't expecting to improve than to waste a year when we should be a better team to strip them down for rebuilding.

Suffered what growing pains? Albert looked lost last year and 3/5ths of the line has been, or will be replaced with Waters soon behind them. Yeah, I'm really glad Goff got some experience in the new system, it did wonders for the team.

03-25-2010, 06:55 PM
RealSNR Special Teams ACE!!! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Where the hell is SNR Casino cash: $1870208	I see Pioli taking a lot of the blame for last year's piss-ass offseason And I agree that he deserves most of it. But are we leaving out Todd Haley in this situation? Remember, we don't quite know about Todd. He might actually be more reeruned than Herm. Nobody really knows. To me, it's also kind of a Catch-22 here. If Todd Haley thought Tyson Jackson was a good pick, and that signing Goff and Mike Brown were good ideas and cutting Pollard and moving to the 3-4 were all good ideas, then he deserves some blame. I mean, he thought these abysmal ideas were good. But then if he didn't think these ideas were good, they still happened under his watch, and his head coaching job during the season reflected entirely Pioli's plan for how a football team should look. And in that case, Todd deserves blame ANYWAY for being a spineless bastard and giving in wholeheartedly to the wishes of Scott Pioli, who would not take any part in building the team, coaching them, improving them, and making the final product on gameday.
Posts: 90,827

03-25-2010, 07:50 PM	#16
EyePod Forgetting 2013 season end. Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Around Casino cash: $9995735	Haley had less time with the Chiefs than Pioli did. He wasn't hired until really late. __________________ I did not believe in Mahomes until week 1. I've been woke ever since. I'm on board this freight train.
Posts: 5,800

03-25-2010, 07:52 PM	#17
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $7813688	Haley is a moron. Firing Chan a week before the season and throwing an additional 20 blocking schemes on your team = moron. Continued shuffling of players so nobody could get in synch = moron. Not playing guys like Wade Smith more often = moron. Playcalling sucked. I forget exactly but wasn't it until week 14 that KC was able to score a 1st quarter TD? So, to answer your question, yes, Haley is a moron. Hopefully Crennel and Weis can dope smack him. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,396

03-25-2010, 08:24 PM	#27
FD Veteran Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indiana Casino cash: $9482813	The whole idea behind the "Patriot way" was this mind-meld between coach and personnel man. Thus, the question is what was really going on: Scenario A: Belichick was the brains behind it all. Pioli was in the right place at the right time and cashed in. In search of the "Patriot way" he picked a coach that he felt he would agree with on most things, someone from the same coaching tree, but really just someone young and inexperienced, who would let him call all the shots and not question it. Also, a dumbass, who has no business being a head coach (at least not at this point in his career). Trying to replicate his success in New England, he hires the coordinators that were also there, who have mostly failed since leaving, hugely reaches for a defensive lineman in his first draft and takes the backup New England QB because he's got a great attitude towards the game, but not much else. Scenario B: Pioli was the brains. Haley is an up-and-coming coach (fresh off a Superbowl run) who Pioli could achieve the all important mind-meld with. Despite a rough start, Haley has what it takes to be very successful in this league with help from two top notch coordinators. He showed improved playcalling and judgement as the season went on. In Pioli's first draft he ignored the trendy advice and took a cornerstone player of a revamped 3-4 defense. He signed a QB who showed a lot of potential in his first starting season to a front-loaded contract and could cut his losses if it didn't work out and brought in veteran leadership to change the culture. I tend to be a perpetual optimist and lent strongly in favor of scenario B initially. The evidence so far has mostly supported scenario A. This next season should pretty well clarify things. I'm trying to make the point that Haley and Pioli should be judged together, because of this philosophy thats been brought over from New England. If Haley stinks, Pioli does, and vice versa.
Posts: 4,579