Replacing both our AC units! Brand question.

[lewdog]

Lots of badass help on CP for these home maintenance things!

Replacing our 2.5 and 3.5 ton Carrier AC systems that are 18 years old.

Have had similar quotes for Carrier and Lennox brands. Recommendations on these brands? Other brands to look at or avoid?

[Bugeater]

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

I would not go with Lennox. Carrier is a tried and true brand.

I ran across an old Lennox Pulse this past winter...you ever seen one of those rigs? Holy shit that was a contraption and an absolute nightmare to try to work on.

[Chief Roundup]

Originally Posted by Bugeater

I ran across an old Lennox Pulse this past winter...you ever seen one of those rigs? Holy shit that was a contraption and an absolute nightmare to try to work on.

Yeah, Lennox has always been horribly engineered. I hate working on them. I would take an old Goodman unit over a ****ing Lennox.

[Bugeater]

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

Yeah, Lennox has always been horribly engineered. I hate working on them. I would take an old Goodman unit over a ****ing Lennox.

I just don't see Lennox at all around here, but if the rest of their shit is anything like that...then yes Lewdog, run. Run fast, run far...

[Chief Roundup]

Originally Posted by scho63

Trane

Trane and there "nothing runs like a Trane" is a good product, right up to having to work on them. For the new HE 16 or 18 seer and higher units, you have to have Trane proprietary software to work on as a technician. As a homeowner, you pay a premium for the tech to have that software. Oh and if the control board goes out after the warranty period has expired the cost is about $4K.

[Bugeater]

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

Trane and there "nothing runs like a Trane" is a good product, right up to having to work on them. For the new HE 16 or 18 seer and higher units, you have to have Trane proprietary software to work on as a technician. As a homeowner, you pay a premium for the tech to have that software. Oh and if the control board goes out after the warranty period has expired the cost is about $4K.

Trane is another one that I don't see very often, but that's pretty much what I've heard about them. Carrier, Rheem and Goodman make up the bulk of what's around here. And thank god for that.

[Chief Roundup]

Originally Posted by Peter Gibbons

How did the estimators determine what size units were needed? Did they simply just offer to install the same size equipment that you already have or did they do a “manual J” calculation to calculate the required cooling loads? Did they inspect the ductwork and airflow at each register in every room? I would want to understand in detail how they arrived at your system sizing, ductwork modifications and the details of the coil and condenser SEER. Also, it’s good to understand what temp they are protecting for for max outdoor temperature in their calculations. When you ask these types of details from your estimators you will begin to get a good feel for how much science vs guessing each is doing.

Originally Posted by lewdog

I wasn't home for the quotes but my wife had some questions I asked her to discuss.

SEER rating doesn't mean much in Phoenix since the humidity is so low. It's basically useless here and I do know that. Both of these installers gave us quotes for 14 and 16 SEER units and both actually recommended the 14 SEER units given how much solar power we generate. Based on my research I knew this was true, so I was impressed neither tried to upsell me on a higher SEER like another company tried to do.

I know the Carrier quote the guy just matched the current system size. The Lennox quote came from looking at our ductwork, vents, and how the house currently cools (our master bedroom and one of the front bedrooms have never cooled as well as other rooms) and he recommended we bump up each unit .5 tons to a 3 and 4 instead of the current 2.5 and 3.5.

.5 ton or 6,000 BTU is not much and would probably be just fine. Make sure they are not just upsizing the outdoor, condenser, unit. They need to also up your air handler/furnace drive to make sure you upgrade the airflow as well or you did it for nothing. Trying to change or add ductwork, depending on your house, can be another higher expense. Don't forget that the return has to be upsized also, not just the supply side. If it is in the crawl space or attic and you don't have to reinsulate or mind reinsulating the space then that expense is not bad or acceptable. If you have square duct inside a fur down or something like that it can get expensive.

[DaneMcCloud]

So Carrier is the consensus best?

I have one 10 ton unit Trane installed on my roof back in 2008 and for the last four years, it’s been an epic disaster. There are “micro fractures” in the lines, so it’s cost $800 per year to recharge it, yet my power bills have been insane. I paid $3,200 dollars for power from July-October 2020.

I’m about to begin getting quotes to have two units installed, while tearing out walls and ceilings in order to properly zone the house. As is, our top floor is freezing in the summer while the middle floor is passable and during the winter, it’s the opposite.

I’m just tired of dealing with it and just want it done right once and for all.

So, Carrier?

[Chief Roundup]

Originally Posted by Bugeater

Trane is another one that I don't see very often, but that's pretty much what I've heard about them. Carrier, Rheem and Goodman make up the bulk of what's around here. And thank god for that.

The old coffin style Ruud/Rheem were the best to change out a compressor on. They were a breeze. Now that these units are getting bigger with the coil size increasing it sucks to have to set those compressors down inside and silver solder those things back in while getting a lung full of phosgene gas.

[lewdog]

Originally Posted by Bugeater

I just don't see Lennox at all around here, but if the rest of their shit is anything like that...then yes Lewdog, run. Run fast, run far...

This warranty is pretty incredible though and my wife really thought the Lennox company took the time to inspect things and ask questions.

15 year parts warranty, 15 years of no cost annual checkups and only spending a max $100 on labor cost if something needs repaired. That's pretty incredible. It ain't me working on the damn thing it's the poor souls that sold me the thing!

[eDave]

Originally Posted by lewdog

This warranty is pretty incredible though and my wife really thought the Lennox company took the time to inspect things and ask questions.

15 year parts warranty, 15 years of no cost annual checkups and only spending a max $100 on labor cost if something needs repaired. That's pretty incredible. It ain't me working on the damn thing it's the poor souls that sold me the thing!

How long do you plan to stay there?

[Chief Roundup]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

So Carrier is the consensus best?

I have one 10 ton unit Trane installed on my roof back in 2008 and for the last four years, it’s been an epic disaster. There are “micro fractures” in the lines, so it’s cost $800 per year to recharge it, yet my power bills have been insane. I paid $3,200 dollars for power from July-October 2020.

I’m about to begin getting quotes to have two units installed, while tearing out walls and ceilings in order to properly zone the house. As is, our top floor is freezing in the summer while the middle floor is passable and during the winter, it’s the opposite.

I’m just tired of dealing with it and just want it done right once and for all.

So, Carrier?

Sounds like someone did a shit job installing your piece of equipment. There are models and years of every brand that have had problems. I always have customers install multiple systems when we get bigger than 4 or 5 tons. Shit happens and it is always better to have an area that can still either cool or heat. Parts are generally more common so less expensive and more readily available for the smaller units. It sucks incredibly when your entire house is uncomfortable. You also get better results in conditioning the spaces if they can each be individually controlled. You can also have each space at much different set points, if necessary so that if no one is in the space you are not wasting energy trying to cool the entire dwelling, especially if it is large, to satisfy a small area.
Carrier or Trane are the best, most reliable, most engineered, and tested manufacturers on the market. They are the standard all others are measured.

[lewdog]

https://modernize.com/hvac/best-air-conditioner-brands

AC reviews.

[lewdog]

Originally Posted by eDave

How long do you plan to stay there?

At least 10 years.

Just put a whole new roof on too.

I love this area though and the schools by us are really good.

[Chief Roundup]

Originally Posted by lewdog

This warranty is pretty incredible though and my wife really thought the Lennox company took the time to inspect things and ask questions.

15 year parts warranty, 15 years of no cost annual checkups and only spending a max $100 on labor cost if something needs repaired. That's pretty incredible. It ain't me working on the damn thing it's the poor souls that sold me the thing!

It is your money. You have to be satisfied in spending it on whatever your choice is.
Think about something though.
Amana gives a 10 year warranty where if the compressor fails they will replace the outdoor condensing unit and indoor evaporator coil. You still have to pay the labor. But if they can afford to give you all the equipment for free a second time within that window it begs two questions. How much is that unit actually worth? How long is that unit going to last after the warranty has expired?
The brand name of the Air Conditioning and Heating units also make a difference on the resale and appraisals of houses.

[BucEyedPea]

Lennox is overpriced. I had to replace mine after Hurricane Irma fried it.