How many times have you heard a football organization say they are cashed out? - Page 2

**The Bad Guy** · 10-19-2004, 01:50 PM

I was thinking today about this "we can't afford anyone, we are cashed out" company line that Vermeil, Peterson and everyone else has fed us.

How is this going to change for next year? Every player besides Wesley is under contract for next year. If the Chiefs are cashed out now, then conventional wisdom says they will be next year as well when Trent, Priest, Gonzalez, Roaf and Morton are do substanical pay increases.

It's disheartening to think that Jack Harry may be right that the window of this team is closed.

I've never heard an organization say we have no more money to spend on upgrades.

It's sad to say, but this team deserves to be 1-4 right now when they can't manage the draft, their money, and the free agent moves they do make turn out to be garbage.

The 3 free agents they brought in last year are awful. Barber, McCleon and Holliday all should be cut after this season.

shaneo69 · 10-19-2004, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

I was thinking today about this "we can't afford anyone, we are cashed out" company line that Vermeil, Peterson and everyone else has fed us.

I've never heard an organization say we have no more money to spend on upgrades.

It's sad to say, but this team deserves to be 1-4 right now when they can't manage the draft, their money, and the free agent moves they do make turn out to be garbage.

The 3 free agents they brought in last year are awful. Barber, McCleon and Holliday all should be cut after this season.

Actually, the Rams have said this to their fans this year. They matched RFA offers to Jeremetrius Butler and Brandon Manumaleuna, then had no more money to spend. They weren't able to replace Grant Wistrom, Brian Young, Kyle Turley, Dave Wohlabaugh, or Travis Fisher via UFA or trade, but they've got by nonetheless. Of course, their cap problems come from paying players who took them to two Super Bowls. Carl can't use that excuse.

Calcountry · 10-19-2004, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soupnazi

It pains me to say it, but this team won't win a championship until Lamar Hunt is gone.

I agree. He has only won ONE Super Bowl and he has owned the team the entire time. Maybe we should trade for the Saints owner.

Calcountry · 10-19-2004, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazarus

never...

i've heard them say that we need stadium improvement to stay competitive etc.

but since the current financial setup in football i dont recall ever hearing it.

it's complete bullchit IMO ... everything i have ever heard was that the chiefs make between 15-30 million dollars in profit every year.

EVEN when the chiefs paid out the big bonuses to Green,Gonzo etc they made a profit.

i think Lamar uses chiefs profits to keep his soccer stuff going

How to fire Carl, Vote no on that stadium upgrade issue that is on the ballot. lmao.

BTW, I hear Sacramento is looking for another franchise.

**The Bad Guy** · 10-19-2004, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jAZ

You are missing the key component. Large signing bonuses were paid last year. Not so much this year. The NFL standard is to spend large cash chunks in alternate seasons.

Expect a good FA offseason coming up.

Who did they pay large bonuses to? Hicks, Browning, Woods, Dunn and Wesley together didn't total even 9 million in bonus money.

Mr. Laz · 10-19-2004, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunnytrdr

How to fire Carl, Vote no on that stadium upgrade issue that is on the ballot. lmao.

BTW, I hear Sacramento is looking for another franchise.

yea, because the chiefs' fans only have 2 choices

support/cheer and call Carl Peterson their King

or

be critical of the job he's doing and lose their football team

tk13 · 10-19-2004, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

Who did they pay large bonuses to? Hicks, Browning, Woods, Dunn and Wesley together didn't total even 9 million in bonus money.

He was saying that we didn't spend that much this year, the big money was spent two years ago when we had to deal with Trent, Priest, Barber, Holliday, McCleon, etc...

I really don't know, I do remember reading something somewhere that I believe said Lamar had to defer some of that bonus money to this past offseason.... I don't think any of us truly know if or how the money's being spent.

**Bowser** · 10-19-2004, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

He was saying that we didn't spend that much this year, the big money was spent two years ago when we had to deal with Trent, Priest, Barber, Holliday, McCleon, etc...

I really don't know, I do remember reading something somewhere that I believe said Lamar had to defer some of that bonus money to this past offseason.... I don't think any of us truly know if or how the money's being spent.

What a crock! WTF does two years ago have to do with this year? Or are we the only team that the salary cap doesn't reset and grow every year for?

Mr. Laz · 10-19-2004, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowser

What a crock! WTF does two years ago have to do with this year? Or are we the only team that the salary cap doesn't reset and grow every year for?

well that's kinda the problem ... we HAD salary cap room

Vermeil said we had salary cap room, that we didn't have money has an organization.

ie lamar/carl made a decision to not speed the money for whatever reason.

in otherwords, we pull an Bengals/Arizona manuever and chose not to spend our full cap money this year.

keg in kc · 10-19-2004, 04:21 PM

If memory serves, both Green's and Holmes' contracts were structured in such a way that the majority of their bonus money came this year. I don't have exact numbers, but I would assume we payed the two of them in the neighborhood of $10 to 15 million combined in '04. Although I could be wrong about that; I'm not nearly as in tune with this kind of crap as I used to be.

tk13 · 10-19-2004, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowser

What a crock! WTF does two years ago have to do with this year? Or are we the only team that the salary cap doesn't reset and grow every year for?

Yeah but we're talking about signing bonus money, which is paid up front. The signing bonus counts against the cap equally across the life of the contract, but if you give a guy a 20 million dollar bonus, you give him all of that money after he signs the contract usually, not in increments. I don't think we have the money to compete with the Redskins of the world, but I don't have the numbers and contracts in front of me, none of us do. There are a ton of reasons why things could possibly be the way they are, from Carl just being greedy to maybe something like there being incentives or other unknown things in people's contracts that count toward the cap that we don't know about...

**Bowser** · 10-19-2004, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

Yeah but we're talking about signing bonus money, which is paid up front. The signing bonus counts against the cap equally across the life of the contract, but if you give a guy a 20 million dollar bonus, you give him all of that money after he signs the contract usually, not in increments. I don't think we have the money to compete with the Redskins of the world, but I don't have the numbers and contracts in front of me, none of us do. There are a ton of reasons why things could possibly be the way they are, from Carl just being greedy to maybe something like there being incentives or other unknown things in people's contracts that count toward the cap that we don't know about...

Yeah, I get all of that. But if we are 6 mil under the cap right now, what's the explanation?

I've heard Vermeil mention "IR money". WTF is that?

keg in kc · 10-19-2004, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowser

I've heard Vermeil mention "IR money". WTF is that?

Players on IR count against the cap.

tk13 · 10-19-2004, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowser

Yeah, I get all of that. But if we are 6 mil under the cap right now, what's the explanation?

I've heard Vermeil mention "IR money". WTF is that?

I still don't know where anyone can prove that we're 6 million under the cap. Maybe we are, but I've never trusted John Clayton's numbers, a couple years ago everyone bashed them for being inaccurate (he had teams being over the cap after the point in the offseason where you cannot be over the cap, had the Raiders some 50 million over the cap, etc.)... I don't think anybody truly knows where we are in relation to the cap.

Maybe we are under the cap, I don't know. I was talking about incentives that come as the season goes along that count against the cap... none of us have any idea what the wording is in everybody's contract. Here's an example of an incentive that nobody even thinks about....

Quote:

The rising use of workout bonuses as a way to calm players is the only thing that has not led to more player outbursts and complaints, say agents, team executives and players. While there is no exact number available, NFL officials believe workout bonus money paid to players has increased by a factor of 10 over the past decade.

It basically works this way: If a team is unsure a player will attend the workouts or conditioning programs -- or there is fear that player might gain significant weight over the offseason -- the franchise will take a portion of the player's salary and turn it into a bonus the player receives only if he participates in a majority of the offseason workouts.

The bonus money can range from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars.

"Sometimes the workout bonus is given to a player the team likes because it can be easily achieved," said agent Brad Blank, who represents dozens of NFL players. "But more and more I think the workout bonus has become almost like a bribe to get some players to show up to offseason programs."

Blank added that the bonuses might also keep players from publicly complaining once offseason workouts begin.

The largest workout bonus in the NFL, the records state, was $700,000 to Denver Broncos defensive end Trevor Pryce.

According to the NFLPA records, the five teams that pay the most workout bonus money are Denver (approximately $17 million), Kansas City ($10 million), Carolina ($5.6 million), Chicago ($5.1 million) and Cincinnati ($4.8 million).

Baltimore (zero dollars), the New York Giants ($15,000), San Francisco ($30,000), San Diego ($205,000) and Miami ($212,300) are among the bottom five.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-onlin...15902492.shtml

listopencil · 10-19-2004, 04:51 PM

The one and only main complaint that any Chief fan can make, regardless of how you feel about personnel decisions, would be the cap room. You can honestly debate all of the other changes that KC has made since last year. But if they really went into this season with six (or four, or five, or seven...I've heard a lot of rumors) million of unused cap space then that is inexcusable. That's a move I would expect from a shitty franchise like Cincy or Arizona. Even San Diego. Not from a franchise that went 13-3 and lost a close playoff game. Inexcusable.

Mr. Laz · 10-19-2004, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

I still don't know where anyone can prove that we're 6 million under the cap[/url]

the chiefs HAD TO HAVE 7 million dollars to tag John tait

after they didnt match they had AT LEAST that money under the cap

since they didnt match they've added Dalton,Welborn and their draft picks

the draft pick rookie pool was maximum 3.8 million

dalton and welborn sure as heck didnt take up the other 3.2 million

and this is at very least senario

before the chiefs chose not to match, Clayton report 6 million under the cap for the chiefs. He may be wrong some, but i dont imagine him being wrong by the entire 6 million.

your looking at closer to 9.2 million under the cap

minus Daltons minimum contract
minus Welborn's cheap contract(he wanted a new one from philly)
plus/minus however much Clayton was wrong

and that's without restructuring players contracts like teams do to make room.

we had cap room, we just chose not to spend it

10-19-2004, 01:50 PM
The Bad Guy Scott Pioli Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: The Copacobana Casino cash: $9363645	How many times have you heard a football organization say they are cashed out? I was thinking today about this "we can't afford anyone, we are cashed out" company line that Vermeil, Peterson and everyone else has fed us. How is this going to change for next year? Every player besides Wesley is under contract for next year. If the Chiefs are cashed out now, then conventional wisdom says they will be next year as well when Trent, Priest, Gonzalez, Roaf and Morton are do substanical pay increases. It's disheartening to think that Jack Harry may be right that the window of this team is closed. I've never heard an organization say we have no more money to spend on upgrades. It's sad to say, but this team deserves to be 1-4 right now when they can't manage the draft, their money, and the free agent moves they do make turn out to be garbage. The 3 free agents they brought in last year are awful. Barber, McCleon and Holliday all should be cut after this season.
Posts: 23,212

10-19-2004, 04:21 PM	#24
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	If memory serves, both Green's and Holmes' contracts were structured in such a way that the majority of their bonus money came this year. I don't have exact numbers, but I would assume we payed the two of them in the neighborhood of $10 to 15 million combined in '04. Although I could be wrong about that; I'm not nearly as in tune with this kind of crap as I used to be.
Posts: 58,682

10-19-2004, 04:51 PM	#29
listopencil Immanentize The Eschaton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In Partibus Infidelium Casino cash: $1785880	The one and only main complaint that any Chief fan can make, regardless of how you feel about personnel decisions, would be the cap room. You can honestly debate all of the other changes that KC has made since last year. But if they really went into this season with six (or four, or five, or seven...I've heard a lot of rumors) million of unused cap space then that is inexcusable. That's a move I would expect from a shitty franchise like Cincy or Arizona. Even San Diego. Not from a franchise that went 13-3 and lost a close playoff game. Inexcusable. __________________ Good friends we have had, oh, good friends we've lost...along the way. In this great future, you can't forget your past. So dry your tears, I say.
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