Teicher: Chiefs know they're in deep hole - Page 2

tk13 · 10-19-2004, 01:08 AM

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...fs/9953171.htm

Chiefs feel their hole deepening

By ADAM TEICHER The Kansas City Star

Even when they were 0-3, the Chiefs looked at their season as one brimming with possibilities. Sooner or later, the prevailing opinion was, the team that won nine straight games last season would resurface.

At 1-4, the picture has changed. The Chiefs still can't get any traction. They wasted the momentum generated by a victory in Baltimore and the bye week by losing a winnable game Sunday in Jacksonville.

Now, the gravity of their situation is beginning to sink in.

“We are definitely in a hole,” halfback Priest Holmes said. “This is not high school or college football. Guys that we line up against every Sunday are licking their chops to be able to keep us down.”

Nobody is taking it harder than coach Dick Vermeil, who turns 68 late this month. Vermeil late last season re-signed for two more seasons in large part because he believed the Chiefs would again be Super Bowl contenders.

“(The losses) add up,” Vermeil said. “I told the squad today and I said to (wife) Carol last night, when you get my age, each one of those kind of losses takes about a month to two months to maybe six months off the end of your life. I mean it.

“This is what I get paid to do. This is what I love to do. I had better handle it. This is too good a football team to be 1-4, and we're 1-4. That's a reflection on me and my whole organization.”

The Chiefs opened 1-4 in 2001, their first season under Vermeil, and would fall to 1-6 before scrambling for a 6-10 finish. The expectations then were nothing like they were this season, when anything less than an AFC championship is failure.

“We're in a rebuilding program at that time,” Vermeil said. “We were trying to get principles built and developed and coached. We've gone on from there to lead the National Football League in scoring two years in a row. We've done a lot of things since then. We've been to the playoffs and lost. The anticipation of this season and the positive thoughts of how good we were going to be, all of that is fading. It hurts more.”

The season's four losses all were solid punches to the Chiefs' gut, and the effect is now cumulative. The sting is even greater with losses like Sunday's, when the Chiefs had fourth-quarter chances on offense, defense and special teams to put away the Jaguars and failed in every area.

At 0-3, the margin of error to scramble back into the playoff race isn't much, but such a task is possible. At 1-4, the task is much more daunting.

“It's hard to weigh which losses are worse,” quarterback Trent Green said. “The Houston game was awful. This one was bad. They all hurt. As the season goes on and as our record is unfolding, these games become more and more important.”

The Chiefs get a shot Sunday at Michael Vick and the 5-1 Falcons at Arrowhead Stadium. Vermeil indicated the Chiefs would look at replacing struggling cornerback Dexter McCleon in the starting lineup.

The Jaguars picked on McCleon repeatedly.

“They went after him a little bit,” Vermeil said. “All of these things will be considered, not only that position but any position where we feel we have a player that can play it better.”

The problem is that the Chiefs may lack a suitable alternative. Nickel back William Bartee struggled two years ago as a starter and lost the job to McCleon last season. Julian Battle has been such a big disappointment that he didn't even suit up Sunday. Rookie Benny Sapp is, well, a rookie.

“I have two guys that one day may be able to someday (replace McCleon), but I don't know if they can today,” Vermeil said. “We had William Bartee in there before, and he didn't play it well. Can he now? I don't know. I think Julian Battle somewhere down the road one day is going to be fine corner. Whether he can play as well as Dexter is playing right now, I don't know.”

The Chiefs had big plans for Battle this season and were hopeful when training camp began he would nudge McCleon from his starting spot. Not only has that not happened, but Battle couldn't even hold off Sapp for the No. 4 job.

That qualifies Battle as one of the year's biggest disappointments. McCleon, after playing well most of last season, would be another.

Vermeil, though, defended McCleon, who also played for him with St. Louis in the late 1990s.

“Everyone wants to point the finger at the corner,” Vermeil said. “I don't work that way. (Defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham) doesn't work that way.”

• TRADE DEADLINE TODAY: The last chance to deal running back Larry Johnson is today, when the NFL's trade deadline passes. The Chiefs had been in discussions with a handful of teams about Johnson. They also discussed a possible trade with the Cowboys involving wide receiver Antonio Bryant.

KCTitus · 10-19-2004, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

$ 6 Million in cap space, obvious CB problems, yet NOTHING was done and McKenzie went elsewhere...

McKenzie wasnt a FA and KC would have to give up it's 2nd round pick next year plus a backup QB to make that trade that the Saints did.

I doubt, based upon the information stated in this thread, that CP has a backup qb worthy of trading.

If that's the case, that would mean more than a 2nd round pick. Possibly a 1st.

The irony coming on a 'KC needs to draft better' thread of talk about giving up picks is the best.

To piss away or to waste picks...that is the question.

TEX · 10-19-2004, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCTitus

McKenzie wasnt a FA and KC would have to give up it's 2nd round pick next year plus a backup QB to make that trade that the Saints did.

I doubt, based upon the information stated in this thread, that CP has a backup qb worthy of trading.

If that's the case, that would mean more than a 2nd round pick. Possibly a 1st.

The irony coming on a 'KC needs to draft better' thread of talk about giving up picks is the best.

To piss away or to waste picks...that is the question.

Yeah, I hear ya. I was just spewing over Mckenzie. I probably should have siad."$6 MILLION in cap space, obvious CB problems, yet no FA was signed!" I do understand that things didn't work with Bartee and Battle like the Chiefs hoped - but damn - this organization was wrong on just about every personell decision they made this off season. When you don't draft well to begin with, and then you overestimate your talent on hand - you have issues.

The CHIEFS got all caught up in how the Patriots do things - difference is the Patriots have talented depth...

Hoover · 10-19-2004, 08:00 AM

If we are not goign to use that cap space, we need to redo some guys on the team, and use up the cap that way, so in the offseason we can go after some FAs

Chan93lx50 · 10-19-2004, 08:22 AM

Problem with Battle is he is a Safety, not a CB.

DAMNIT CARL!

Hammock Parties · 10-19-2004, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chan93lx50

Problem with Battle is he is a Safety, not a CB.

DAMNIT CARL!

Wrong. CB in college, drafted as a CB.

go bo · 10-19-2004, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bundle of sticks

Wrong. CB in college, drafted as a CB.

wrong...

he was a safety that played cb a little bit late in his college career...

imo, the problem with battle is that he has been left behind by the rule changes/enforcement of the 5 yard chuck rule...

battle is a very physical player that has all the talent in the world, for playing a physical style...

it's possible that he will learn how not to use his hands all the time and be a good cb someday, but he obviously can't handle the current style of play required by the "new" rule enforcement...

i was very high on this kid, but he just doesn't have any experience with "hands off" cb play and appears to be a slow learner...

big disappointment...

sorta like the chiefs as a whole this year...

David. · 10-19-2004, 11:49 AM

hey you changed the title!

it was "chiefs know they're deepening their hole"

**Rain Man** · 10-19-2004, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover

If we are not goign to use that cap space, we need to redo some guys on the team, and use up the cap that way, so in the offseason we can go after some FAs

This is my second "I agree with Hoover post" in the past five minutes. What are the implications of that?

**Bowser** · 10-19-2004, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

This is my second "I agree with Hoover post" in the past five minutes. What are the implications of that?

Is it December 23, 2012 already?

go bo · 10-19-2004, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

This is my second "I agree with Hoover post" in the past five minutes. What are the implications of that?

i dunno, but somehow it sounds kinda scary...

10-19-2004, 01:08 AM
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1422500	Teicher: Chiefs know they're in deep hole http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...fs/9953171.htm Chiefs feel their hole deepening By ADAM TEICHER The Kansas City Star Even when they were 0-3, the Chiefs looked at their season as one brimming with possibilities. Sooner or later, the prevailing opinion was, the team that won nine straight games last season would resurface. At 1-4, the picture has changed. The Chiefs still can't get any traction. They wasted the momentum generated by a victory in Baltimore and the bye week by losing a winnable game Sunday in Jacksonville. Now, the gravity of their situation is beginning to sink in. “We are definitely in a hole,” halfback Priest Holmes said. “This is not high school or college football. Guys that we line up against every Sunday are licking their chops to be able to keep us down.” Nobody is taking it harder than coach Dick Vermeil, who turns 68 late this month. Vermeil late last season re-signed for two more seasons in large part because he believed the Chiefs would again be Super Bowl contenders. “(The losses) add up,” Vermeil said. “I told the squad today and I said to (wife) Carol last night, when you get my age, each one of those kind of losses takes about a month to two months to maybe six months off the end of your life. I mean it. “This is what I get paid to do. This is what I love to do. I had better handle it. This is too good a football team to be 1-4, and we're 1-4. That's a reflection on me and my whole organization.” The Chiefs opened 1-4 in 2001, their first season under Vermeil, and would fall to 1-6 before scrambling for a 6-10 finish. The expectations then were nothing like they were this season, when anything less than an AFC championship is failure. “We're in a rebuilding program at that time,” Vermeil said. “We were trying to get principles built and developed and coached. We've gone on from there to lead the National Football League in scoring two years in a row. We've done a lot of things since then. We've been to the playoffs and lost. The anticipation of this season and the positive thoughts of how good we were going to be, all of that is fading. It hurts more.” The season's four losses all were solid punches to the Chiefs' gut, and the effect is now cumulative. The sting is even greater with losses like Sunday's, when the Chiefs had fourth-quarter chances on offense, defense and special teams to put away the Jaguars and failed in every area. At 0-3, the margin of error to scramble back into the playoff race isn't much, but such a task is possible. At 1-4, the task is much more daunting. “It's hard to weigh which losses are worse,” quarterback Trent Green said. “The Houston game was awful. This one was bad. They all hurt. As the season goes on and as our record is unfolding, these games become more and more important.” The Chiefs get a shot Sunday at Michael Vick and the 5-1 Falcons at Arrowhead Stadium. Vermeil indicated the Chiefs would look at replacing struggling cornerback Dexter McCleon in the starting lineup. The Jaguars picked on McCleon repeatedly. “They went after him a little bit,” Vermeil said. “All of these things will be considered, not only that position but any position where we feel we have a player that can play it better.” The problem is that the Chiefs may lack a suitable alternative. Nickel back William Bartee struggled two years ago as a starter and lost the job to McCleon last season. Julian Battle has been such a big disappointment that he didn't even suit up Sunday. Rookie Benny Sapp is, well, a rookie. “I have two guys that one day may be able to someday (replace McCleon), but I don't know if they can today,” Vermeil said. “We had William Bartee in there before, and he didn't play it well. Can he now? I don't know. I think Julian Battle somewhere down the road one day is going to be fine corner. Whether he can play as well as Dexter is playing right now, I don't know.” The Chiefs had big plans for Battle this season and were hopeful when training camp began he would nudge McCleon from his starting spot. Not only has that not happened, but Battle couldn't even hold off Sapp for the No. 4 job. That qualifies Battle as one of the year's biggest disappointments. McCleon, after playing well most of last season, would be another. Vermeil, though, defended McCleon, who also played for him with St. Louis in the late 1990s. “Everyone wants to point the finger at the corner,” Vermeil said. “I don't work that way. (Defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham) doesn't work that way.” • TRADE DEADLINE TODAY: The last chance to deal running back Larry Johnson is today, when the NFL's trade deadline passes. The Chiefs had been in discussions with a handful of teams about Johnson. They also discussed a possible trade with the Cowboys involving wide receiver Antonio Bryant.
Posts: 55,075

10-19-2004, 08:00 AM	#18
Hoover Rufus Dawes Jr. Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $1138179	If we are not goign to use that cap space, we need to redo some guys on the team, and use up the cap that way, so in the offseason we can go after some FAs
Posts: 17,411

10-19-2004, 08:22 AM	#19
Chan93lx50 Veteran Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Cedar Rapids, IA Casino cash: $10004900	Problem with Battle is he is a Safety, not a CB. DAMNIT CARL! __________________
Posts: 1,847

10-19-2004, 11:49 AM	#22
David. . Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: University of Missouri Casino cash: $10005850	hey you changed the title! it was "chiefs know they're deepening their hole"
Posts: 8,169