Football Football 101...Training Camp for the Fan. - Page 2

**Iowanian** · 07-01-2005, 11:08 AM

We have many Young posters, and fans who have never played football on the board. Some have vast football knowledge and could educate some of us that have things to learn, so we can more than nod our heads and pretend to understand the conversation, thereby getting more benefit in season conversation.

If you have a question, don't be afraid to ask it. Myself, someone who knows will explain it the best we can, or link it on the web. In this thread, there should be no such thing as a "stupid Football related question".

For those who really know.....pick a topic and explain it in a way that a Jr High kid could understand.

Offensive Line Schemes...the difference between zone blocking etc.
Cover 2 defense, zone defense, man defense.....1,2 and 3 gap DLine techniques.........whats an Hback....the difference between a SS and FS and their responsibilities.

Let the questions and Answers rip. this could be a great educational experience. Lets Go planet, Get the Rookies in Game-day Shape.

ct · 07-01-2005, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beer bacon

They have the full and unconditional might of the Russian Empire behind them.

But that has been covert and top secret until just recently. Now that they are 'outed', perhaps all of us 'real' patriots will rise up and squash those commie lovers!

ct · 07-01-2005, 11:47 AM

Perhaps a Salary Cap 101 would be helpful to many.

Gaz · 07-01-2005, 11:48 AM

The primary difference between a CB and a Safety is that the CB’s primary objective is pass defense, while the Safeties [particularly the SS] are both pass and run defense. This is a very broad brush I am using here, as CBs are often used in run defense or in blitz packages. But as a rule of thumb, it is sound.

You could categorize Safeties as backups to the LB & CB positions in run and pass defense, respectively.

CBs must be quick and able to cover a WR.
SSs must be big hitters, as they often come up in run Defense.
FSs must be fast enough to cover ground and help out the CBs.

Clear as mud?

xoxo~
Gaz
Trying to help.

keg in kc · 07-01-2005, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lzen

What is the meaning of life?

42?

**Donger** · 07-01-2005, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaz

In general terms, the Strong Safety is oriented more towards run defense. He often lines up closer to the LOS. The Free Safety is oriented more towards pass defense. He is generally lined up behind the CBs and is the proverbial last ditch defense.

Speaking in very general terms again, the SS is bigger, while the FS is faster.

xoxo~
Gaz
Painfully aware that rules of thumb are of limited value.

Thank you Gaz. I just found a Football For Dummies site that goes over all this. I can't believe I never looked before.

**Iowanian** · 07-01-2005, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptlyon

I have always wanted to ask this, but was scared to.

What are those orange sticks those guys are holding? They keep getting closer together and then farther apart. At their farthest part it seems like they're maybe, 10 yards apart? (I'm not a good judge of distance so that is an estimation). OH, and when that dude in the stripes seems to make a motion with his arm, then they get to their farthest point.

That has always been confusing to me - can anybody help me out here?

Thanks in advance.

I know you're being a wiseguy too, but there might be someone who doesn't know....

The Two orange poles, connected by a 10 yard chain are the first down chains. The first one marks the point of beginning at 1st down, while the 2nd marks 10 yards and the point the offense must get to receive a first down. The post, which also has the Down # on it, is the Ball marker, and moves to mark the yard line of the balls location(after a sack, it could be several yards behind the 10 yards for ex.

Many of the down markers are now made in Kansas City in the garages of some local makers of "dialadown"...one of which is a relative of mine.

When the Offense of KC passes the first down marker, you're bound to see a Planet Member in a cape and a helmet Hair do an odd lipped shake as they say "1st down"

http://football.about.com/cs/footbal...l_101downs.htm

beer bacon · 07-01-2005, 11:58 AM

I have a couple questions. One might be unanswerable at this point in time, but the other should be fine. The first relates to our defense and specifically to a question I posted earlier this week.

The first is how exactly is the whole Right LB and Left LB going to/already does work for us? How does Gun really manage his LBs? For example, if Bell and DJ are the two starting OLBs, will they usually be staying on their respective sides or will they move around a lot? Would DJ usually move over and to the strong side over the TE and Bell over to the weakside where he can come off the edge easier? Or will they usually keep the LB on his respective side. This may be impossible to answer since they haven't actually lined up at all yet, but I am also wondering in more general terms about Gun's tendencies. I think Keg told me in the other thread that Gun will usually move them to where ever they can best take advantage of matchups, but I never really requested for him to flesh that anymore.

The other question is about the 46 defense the Ravens going to be employing. The way I understand is that you only have two LBs with five guys on the line with another safety playing up close to the LoS similar to an LB? Are the CBs just basically on an island? What are the linemen's responsibilities? I have quite a few articles about the Ravens making the switch, but they never really fully explain how the 46 defense works out. They are always talking about how it will effect/what a specific player's, usually Ray Lewis, role will be.

**Iowanian** · 07-01-2005, 12:03 PM

http://football.about.com/od/football101/

I didn't think this was a far fetched idea...and there are multiple sites with information available.

keg in kc · 07-01-2005, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iowanian

http://football.about.com/od/football101/

I didn't think this was a far fetched idea...and there are multiple sites with information available.

Some of you more freaky types could probably dress up in drag and take the class that Tony Gonzalez teaches the ladies during the season.

Gaz · 07-01-2005, 12:05 PM

As I understand it, CBs in the 46 Defense cover outside zones, and the FS covers the inside zone. The SS lines on the same side as the TE and has TE coverage responsibility.

The advantage here is that the LBs or SS can drop back into zone coverage at any time. The desire is to sew confusion among The Enemy with multiple options from a “standard” formation.

I have a question on this same topic: does anyone play a 46 with man coverage?

xoxo~
Gaz
Playing with the x’s & o’s.

**Iowanian** · 07-01-2005, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coryt

Yo Iowa,

Is this another Chiefsplanet experiment kinda thing?

ct
a bit suspicious now

No alterior motives at all. I thought it was slow, not much happening, and a poster mentioned that they were afraid to participate or ask questions for fear of ridicule. I'll not make fun of anyone for really wanting to Know something they don't understand.

I think any legit football question on this thread should get a free pass from further harrassment in the future.

I know some of you know alot more than I do, and I know I know more than some. We can help each other understand things that maybe we don't. Simple to Complex.

**Iowanian** · 07-01-2005, 12:07 PM

I kind of understand, but not fully enough to Explain it.

Could someone explain the difference in the DT techniques. What are a 1,2 and 3 technique DT, and what makes 1 player more suited for 1 and a failure at another?

keg in kc · 07-01-2005, 12:13 PM

From the Bucs website

What is the one-technique and three-technique used by defensive tackles?

Answer Man: “How much time have you got?”

That’s not what I’m saying to you, John. That’s what Marinelli said to me when I posed your question. Having just seen Marinelli spend an extra 30 minutes on a blazing-hot practice field hashing over the most minute details of the defense with Monte Kiffin, the Answer Man was a little worried about what that meant.

Fortunately, we talked Marinelli, a certified D-Line genius, into the short version…and we’d like to add in here that Marinelli’s relaxed patience with a neophyte is yet another reason to admire the man.

Anyway, the first thing you need to know, given the wording of your question, is that the terms ‘one-technique’ and ‘three-technique’ are usually used in regards to the type of player a guy is, not a specific technique he uses. In other words, a coach isn’t going to say, “I want you to use a three-technique on the guard,” but he might say, “Anthony McFarland is going to be very productive in the three-technique this year.”

Here’s Marinelli on those two types of players:

“A three-technique is more of a high-energy, high-motor, explosive player who is going to get one-on-one pass-rush a lot more. He’s a penetrator. He’s got to be the disruptor; he’s got to create some havoc. The one-technique is usually to the bubble and he’s going to get the heavy run game, the heavy double-team, all those doubles coming off with the power running game.”

Or, to put it another way, a one-technique is a nose tackle and a three-technique is an under tackle.

Okay, I kind of knew that. Maybe you did too, John. What Answer Man didn’t know was from where the terms came. Why would an under-tackle also be referred to as a three-technique? Turns out it’s all part of a code, and Marinelli cracked it for us.

Imagine you’re facing the center and the guard to his right. The center’s right shoulder is referred to as ‘one.’ The guard’s right, or outside, shoulder is referred to as ‘three,” and so on down the line. The under tackle will often be trying to penetrate off that guard’s ‘three’ shoulder, or through the B gap. Thus, three-technique.

By the way, straight up on that guard would be ‘two’ and his inside shoulder would be ‘two-I.’ And you thought it was all just see quarterback, chase quarterback!

Hope that helps.

jspchief · 07-01-2005, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beer bacon

I have a couple questions. One might be unanswerable at this point in time, but the other should be fine. The first relates to our defense and specifically to a question I posted earlier this week.

The first is how exactly is the whole Right LB and Left LB going to/already does work for us? How does Gun really manage his LBs? For example, if Bell and DJ are the two starting OLBs, will they usually be staying on their respective sides or will they move around a lot? Would DJ usually move over and to the strong side over the TE and Bell over to the weakside where he can come off the edge easier? Or will they usually keep the LB on his respective side. This may be impossible to answer since they haven't actually lined up at all yet, but I am also wondering in more general terms about Gun's tendencies. I think Keg told me in the other thread that Gun will usually move them to where ever they can best take advantage of matchups, but I never really requested for him to flesh that anymore.

The other question is about the 46 defense the Ravens going to be employing. The way I understand is that you only have two LBs with five guys on the line with another safety playing up close to the LoS similar to an LB? Are the CBs just basically on an island? What are the linemen's responsibilities? I have quite a few articles about the Ravens making the switch, but they never really fully explain how the 46 defense works out. They are always talking about how it will effect/what a specific player's, usually Ray Lewis, role will be.

I'll take a stab at this, but someone smart may correct me. Traditionally the SSLB would line up on the TE side of the ball, with the thinking that the TE will be run-blocking. Offenses these days use so many different formations, that it's hard to determine anything solely from the way the offense lines up. With pass catching TEs, motion, and other factors, it's just not as easy to get your SLB in the right place. Instead of trying to guess, and having your LBs switching around following the motion, KC has decided that leaving the LBs where they are will lead to them getting the favorable matchup 50% of the time anyway.

As far as the 46, a lot of pressure will be put on the CBs, and while BAL has good corners, I don't expect the 46 to work like it did in the past. The passing game is too prolific, and will expose the weaknesses of the 46. IMO.

**Iowanian** · 07-01-2005, 01:17 PM

Thats pretty close to how I would explain it JSP. Traditional SAM and Wil determine which side of the formation they'll be on, based on where the TE lines up(left or right) and often switch if the TE goes in Motion. In the Chiefs base defense under Gunther the LBs will play either the Right or Left Side, and normally will make adjustments to assignments based on the Offensive formation. It lets the Defense somewhat dictate to the Offense, instead of the Defense reacting to everything the Offense does.

What does that mean? If Kendrell Bell is on the rlb position, and crowds the line behind the DE, the Offense has to make adjustments to the blocking calls to pick up what they would assume would be him Blitzing...Where as, with a Bell Blitz called, and a TE motioning to His side, the Defense can adjust coverage to the TE with another player(safety), or the LLB could Blitz instead, or pick up the Back responsibility(run or coverage in the flat).

This might be a good spot for a definition:
When comentators or posters talk about "the front 7" they are talking about the Defensive Linemen and Linebackers. 3 DL and 4lbs in a 3-4, and 4 DLine and 3lbs in a 4-3.

07-01-2005, 11:08 AM
Iowanian Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Utopia Casino cash: $1668454	Football 101...Training Camp for the Fan. We have many Young posters, and fans who have never played football on the board. Some have vast football knowledge and could educate some of us that have things to learn, so we can more than nod our heads and pretend to understand the conversation, thereby getting more benefit in season conversation. If you have a question, don't be afraid to ask it. Myself, someone who knows will explain it the best we can, or link it on the web. In this thread, there should be no such thing as a "stupid Football related question". For those who really know.....pick a topic and explain it in a way that a Jr High kid could understand. Offensive Line Schemes...the difference between zone blocking etc. Cover 2 defense, zone defense, man defense.....1,2 and 3 gap DLine techniques.........whats an Hback....the difference between a SS and FS and their responsibilities. Let the questions and Answers rip. this could be a great educational experience. Lets Go planet, Get the Rookies in Game-day Shape.
Posts: 62,945

07-01-2005, 11:47 AM	#17
ct u b illian Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: DooDah Casino cash: $10009436	Perhaps a Salary Cap 101 would be helpful to many.
Posts: 7,287

07-01-2005, 11:48 AM	#18
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	As to CB Vs S... The primary difference between a CB and a Safety is that the CB’s primary objective is pass defense, while the Safeties [particularly the SS] are both pass and run defense. This is a very broad brush I am using here, as CBs are often used in run defense or in blitz packages. But as a rule of thumb, it is sound. You could categorize Safeties as backups to the LB & CB positions in run and pass defense, respectively. CBs must be quick and able to cover a WR. SSs must be big hitters, as they often come up in run Defense. FSs must be fast enough to cover ground and help out the CBs. Clear as mud? xoxo~ Gaz Trying to help.
Posts: 5,911

07-01-2005, 11:58 AM	#22
beer bacon WHAT Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Casino cash: $10019545	I have a couple questions. One might be unanswerable at this point in time, but the other should be fine. The first relates to our defense and specifically to a question I posted earlier this week. The first is how exactly is the whole Right LB and Left LB going to/already does work for us? How does Gun really manage his LBs? For example, if Bell and DJ are the two starting OLBs, will they usually be staying on their respective sides or will they move around a lot? Would DJ usually move over and to the strong side over the TE and Bell over to the weakside where he can come off the edge easier? Or will they usually keep the LB on his respective side. This may be impossible to answer since they haven't actually lined up at all yet, but I am also wondering in more general terms about Gun's tendencies. I think Keg told me in the other thread that Gun will usually move them to where ever they can best take advantage of matchups, but I never really requested for him to flesh that anymore. The other question is about the 46 defense the Ravens going to be employing. The way I understand is that you only have two LBs with five guys on the line with another safety playing up close to the LoS similar to an LB? Are the CBs just basically on an island? What are the linemen's responsibilities? I have quite a few articles about the Ravens making the switch, but they never really fully explain how the 46 defense works out. They are always talking about how it will effect/what a specific player's, usually Ray Lewis, role will be.
Posts: 9,301

07-01-2005, 12:03 PM	#23
Iowanian Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Utopia Casino cash: $1668454	http://football.about.com/od/football101/ I didn't think this was a far fetched idea...and there are multiple sites with information available.
Posts: 62,945

07-01-2005, 12:05 PM	#25
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	46 D... As I understand it, CBs in the 46 Defense cover outside zones, and the FS covers the inside zone. The SS lines on the same side as the TE and has TE coverage responsibility. The advantage here is that the LBs or SS can drop back into zone coverage at any time. The desire is to sew confusion among The Enemy with multiple options from a “standard” formation. I have a question on this same topic: does anyone play a 46 with man coverage? xoxo~ Gaz Playing with the x’s & o’s.
Posts: 5,911

07-01-2005, 12:07 PM	#27
Iowanian Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Utopia Casino cash: $1668454	I kind of understand, but not fully enough to Explain it. Could someone explain the difference in the DT techniques. What are a 1,2 and 3 technique DT, and what makes 1 player more suited for 1 and a failure at another?
Posts: 62,945

07-01-2005, 12:13 PM	#28
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	From the Bucs website What is the one-technique and three-technique used by defensive tackles? Answer Man: “How much time have you got?” That’s not what I’m saying to you, John. That’s what Marinelli said to me when I posed your question. Having just seen Marinelli spend an extra 30 minutes on a blazing-hot practice field hashing over the most minute details of the defense with Monte Kiffin, the Answer Man was a little worried about what that meant. Fortunately, we talked Marinelli, a certified D-Line genius, into the short version…and we’d like to add in here that Marinelli’s relaxed patience with a neophyte is yet another reason to admire the man. Anyway, the first thing you need to know, given the wording of your question, is that the terms ‘one-technique’ and ‘three-technique’ are usually used in regards to the type of player a guy is, not a specific technique he uses. In other words, a coach isn’t going to say, “I want you to use a three-technique on the guard,” but he might say, “Anthony McFarland is going to be very productive in the three-technique this year.” Here’s Marinelli on those two types of players: “A three-technique is more of a high-energy, high-motor, explosive player who is going to get one-on-one pass-rush a lot more. He’s a penetrator. He’s got to be the disruptor; he’s got to create some havoc. The one-technique is usually to the bubble and he’s going to get the heavy run game, the heavy double-team, all those doubles coming off with the power running game.” Or, to put it another way, a one-technique is a nose tackle and a three-technique is an under tackle. Okay, I kind of knew that. Maybe you did too, John. What Answer Man didn’t know was from where the terms came. Why would an under-tackle also be referred to as a three-technique? Turns out it’s all part of a code, and Marinelli cracked it for us. Imagine you’re facing the center and the guard to his right. The center’s right shoulder is referred to as ‘one.’ The guard’s right, or outside, shoulder is referred to as ‘three,” and so on down the line. The under tackle will often be trying to penetrate off that guard’s ‘three’ shoulder, or through the B gap. Thus, three-technique. By the way, straight up on that guard would be ‘two’ and his inside shoulder would be ‘two-I.’ And you thought it was all just see quarterback, chase quarterback! Hope that helps.
Posts: 58,682

07-01-2005, 01:17 PM	#30
Iowanian Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Utopia Casino cash: $1668454	Thats pretty close to how I would explain it JSP. Traditional SAM and Wil determine which side of the formation they'll be on, based on where the TE lines up(left or right) and often switch if the TE goes in Motion. In the Chiefs base defense under Gunther the LBs will play either the Right or Left Side, and normally will make adjustments to assignments based on the Offensive formation. It lets the Defense somewhat dictate to the Offense, instead of the Defense reacting to everything the Offense does. What does that mean? If Kendrell Bell is on the rlb position, and crowds the line behind the DE, the Offense has to make adjustments to the blocking calls to pick up what they would assume would be him Blitzing...Where as, with a Bell Blitz called, and a TE motioning to His side, the Defense can adjust coverage to the TE with another player(safety), or the LLB could Blitz instead, or pick up the Back responsibility(run or coverage in the flat). This might be a good spot for a definition: When comentators or posters talk about "the front 7" they are talking about the Defensive Linemen and Linebackers. 3 DL and 4lbs in a 3-4, and 4 DLine and 3lbs in a 4-3.
Posts: 62,945