Saunders-haters: Why NOT Al? - Page 2

Mr. Kotter · 12-20-2005, 10:36 AM

Why rebuild, when you can reload? Come on, hear me out on this....

I've read here and elsewhere, it's because CP doesn't "like" Saunders; or he has different politics than the rest of the FO. I've read that he's pissed off LJ; and that LJ is CP's boy. I've read Al gets too "cute" with his play calling. I've read he's already been a HC, and failed. While there may be some element of truth to each of those charges....as major reasons to not consider hiring Saunders, I just don't buy any of it.

This is football. While the team has suffered as a result of DV's neglect of the defense IMO, Al has done his job extremely well. Saunders has been a big part of some of the most consistently successful offenses in the history of the league. The Chief's offense the last five years has been a joy to watch--90% of the time. If Roaf comes back, filling Shields spot is the only significant task left to do on that side of the ball. Yes, developing a young tackle or two, finding a QBOTF, converting Wilson from TE to FB to replace TRich (or something like that-heh), and signing a quality back up for LJ, are all we would really need to do for the next two or three years on Offense. Very "doable" in my mind.

Now, having said that......something dramatic has to be done on the Defensive side of the ball. However, who's to say that with Saunders taking over, that he and CP won't be able to cherry-pick the coaches that are worth keeping, while at the same time hiring new coaches in key areas.....

Along with a couple of key additions to the defensive personnel, in the draft and in FA (provided we can clear the cap room) and I think we will have just reloaded, instead of rebuilding.

Thoughts, comments, or reactions?

Mr. Laz · 12-20-2005, 10:56 AM

i'm good with giving AL a shot as long as we completely clean house on the defensive side of the ball.

Mr. Laz · 12-20-2005, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefz

1st and goal, 9 yard line, 4 point lead with 1:21 remaining on the clock before the half, Kansas City has successfully moved the ball on the ground and already scored two rushing touchdowns.

The play comes in, its a pass incomplete to Larry Johnson in the middle due to PRESSURE ON GREEN.

Time running out on the clock, oh wait... The Chiefs call a timeout????

1:16 left on the clock before the half, 4 point lead, 2nd and goal on the 9 yard line.

The play comes in... The fullback goes out?

Singleback formation, here comes the snap, its another pass?

Johnson misses the block on the outside linebacker blitz.......................

top 3 offense the last 4-5 year

Chiefnj · 12-20-2005, 10:59 AM

For someone with a complete inability to make changes and adjust, Saunder has done a great job scoring points and moving the ball. Especially when you consider all the dropped balls, penalties, injuries, etc.

It's funny to see people have to go back to the first SD game to critique the guy.

Simply Red · 12-20-2005, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

For someone with a complete inability to make changes and adjust, Saunder has done a great job scoring points and moving the ball. Especially when you consider all the dropped balls, penalties, injuries, etc.

It's funny to see people have to go back to the first SD game to critique the guy.

He would be a fine fit. Look at what he has done for the offense.

Mr. Kotter · 12-20-2005, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefz

1st and goal, 9 yard line, 4 point lead with 1:21 remaining on the clock before the half, Kansas City has successfully moved the ball on the ground and already scored two rushing touchdowns.

The play comes in, its a pass incomplete to Larry Johnson in the middle due to PRESSURE ON GREEN.

Time running out on the clock, oh wait... The Chiefs call a timeout????

1:16 left on the clock before the half, 4 point lead, 2nd and goal on the 9 yard line.

The play comes in... The fullback goes out?

Singleback formation, here comes the snap, its another pass?

Johnson misses the block on the outside linebacker blitz.......................

Clock management? I'd put more of that on Vermiel, than on Saunders. That has been pathetic, I agree.

As far as LJ missing a block...that sucks, yes. No doubt about it. Unfortunately, it happens. Hopefully it will happen less, as LJ becomes a better blocker.....what's that have to do with Saunders? Other than, maybe he had faith that LJ might be able to do it in that particular case...

I think there were some miscalculations by the coaching staff, earlier in the season....with regard to limitations of some players due to injuries and agree they should have been able to figure it out, but didn't. Once again though, I'd put that more on Vermiel than Saunders.

Mr. Kotter · 12-20-2005, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

....It's funny to see people have to go back to the first SD game to critique the guy.

The offense scored 17 pts in the second half of the SD game....

Mr. Laz · 12-20-2005, 11:03 AM

top 3 offense for almost his entire tenure and he did it without a stud receiver.

not bad in my book

Brock · 12-20-2005, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

i'm good with giving AL a shot as long as we completely clean house on the defensive side of the ball.

Ain't gonna happen.

B_Ambuehl · 12-20-2005, 11:05 AM

Quote:

He has shown us this season that he is too stubborn to make the offensive adjustments necessary to win the games we need to

That's bullshit. The very game you mention (S.D.) he had a quarterback pass for more yards in one half then any other quarterback had up to that point in the year. He had a back rush for over 100 yards in a quarter. If plays weren't being made it's because his quarterback was throwing interceptions or taking sacks. Is an offense going to stagnate sometimes? Sure. Same thing happens on defense. The chicago bears defense has given up big plays and had games of 150 + yards rushing allowed this year. Nobody can be perfect in the NFL. But when a guy leads the league in a category 5 years in a row he should get some respect and Saunders has done that.

Simplex3 · 12-20-2005, 11:05 AM

My problem with AS isn't that he is a terrible coach. My problem is that we can't get rid of ALL the players, but if you keep players and coaches but send a few coaches packing what have you really changed? The only way a current Chiefs coach can win the players back would be to take the job, unmercifully fire every other coach, then become a different person than they were when DV was here. I don't see AS doing that because of his loyalty to DV.

Mr. Kotter · 12-20-2005, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

Ain't gonna happen.

Why not?

I could see them dumping everyone but Gun, and maybe Karmelowicz.....

Chiefnj · 12-20-2005, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefz

1st and goal, 9 yard line, 4 point lead with 1:21 remaining on the clock before the half, Kansas City has successfully moved the ball on the ground and already scored two rushing touchdowns.

The play comes in, its a pass incomplete to Larry Johnson in the middle due to PRESSURE ON GREEN.

Time running out on the clock, oh wait... The Chiefs call a timeout????

1:16 left on the clock before the half, 4 point lead, 2nd and goal on the 9 yard line.

The play comes in... The fullback goes out?

Singleback formation, here comes the snap, its another pass?

Johnson misses the block on the outside linebacker blitz.......................

You did see LJ get stuffed three times in a row last week against the NYG. LJ should have been able to pick up the blitz. Poor execution, not poor playcalling.

Mr. Laz · 12-20-2005, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

Ain't gonna happen.

yea ... well, that's a completely different question

if it takes dropping everyone to get new defensive coaches then buh-bye to Al.

but if these defensive coaches stay then it has nothing to do with AL and everything to do with Carl.

Mr. Kotter · 12-20-2005, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplex3

My problem with AS isn't that he is a terrible coach. My problem is that we can't get rid of ALL the players, but if you keep players and coaches but send a few coaches packing what have you really changed? The only way a current Chiefs coach can win the players back would be to take the job, unmercifully fire every other coach, then become a different person than they were when DV was here. I don't see AS doing that because of his loyalty to DV.

I say change a lot of the coaches and players. Keep the ones who've been successful is what I'm saying....

I'd say 10-12 players need cut; and an equal number of coaches....I think that would go along way toward "righting" the ship, if those cut are the ones deserving of being shown the door:

Bartee, Bell, Woods, Hicks, etc.....Guinta, Dean, Hairston, etc.....maybe Wesley and Sims, maybe Gun and Karmelowicz....

chiefz · 12-20-2005, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

Clock management? I'd put more of that on Vermiel, than on Saunders. That has been pathetic, I agree.

As far as LJ missing a block...that sucks, yes. No doubt about it. Unfortunately, it happens. Hopefully it will happen less, as LJ becomes a better blocker.....what's that have to do with Saunders? Other than, maybe he had faith that LJ might be able to do it in that particular case...

I think there were some miscalculations by the coaching staff, earlier in the season....with regard to limitations of some players due to injuries and agree they should have been able to figure it out, but didn't. Once again though, I'd put that more on Vermiel than Saunders.

Why get cute? 9 yards to score and 1st and goal after moving the ball on the ground and previously scoring two rushing touchdowns (from 11 yards and 1 yard).

Johnson has problems with pass protection from lack of game experience in the NFL, everyone knows it. When Trent misses the previous pass because of pressure why the hell would you take your fullback out and run another pass play in that situation.

That's not Vermeil, thats Saunders.

12-20-2005, 10:36 AM
Mr. Kotter Self Ban Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: In some's minds... Casino cash: $3194285	Saunders-haters: Why NOT Al? Why rebuild, when you can reload? Come on, hear me out on this.... I've read here and elsewhere, it's because CP doesn't "like" Saunders; or he has different politics than the rest of the FO. I've read that he's pissed off LJ; and that LJ is CP's boy. I've read Al gets too "cute" with his play calling. I've read he's already been a HC, and failed. While there may be some element of truth to each of those charges....as major reasons to not consider hiring Saunders, I just don't buy any of it. This is football. While the team has suffered as a result of DV's neglect of the defense IMO, Al has done his job extremely well. Saunders has been a big part of some of the most consistently successful offenses in the history of the league. The Chief's offense the last five years has been a joy to watch--90% of the time. If Roaf comes back, filling Shields spot is the only significant task left to do on that side of the ball. Yes, developing a young tackle or two, finding a QBOTF, converting Wilson from TE to FB to replace TRich (or something like that-heh), and signing a quality back up for LJ, are all we would really need to do for the next two or three years on Offense. Very "doable" in my mind. Now, having said that......something dramatic has to be done on the Defensive side of the ball. However, who's to say that with Saunders taking over, that he and CP won't be able to cherry-pick the coaches that are worth keeping, while at the same time hiring new coaches in key areas..... Along with a couple of key additions to the defensive personnel, in the draft and in FA (provided we can clear the cap room) and I think we will have just reloaded, instead of rebuilding. Thoughts, comments, or reactions?
Posts: 46,966

12-20-2005, 10:56 AM	#16
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	i'm good with giving AL a shot as long as we completely clean house on the defensive side of the ball. __________________
Posts: 95,626

12-20-2005, 10:59 AM	#18
Chiefnj MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Willis, Harris and Davis. Casino cash: $10004900	For someone with a complete inability to make changes and adjust, Saunder has done a great job scoring points and moving the ball. Especially when you consider all the dropped balls, penalties, injuries, etc. It's funny to see people have to go back to the first SD game to critique the guy.
Posts: 6,811

12-20-2005, 11:03 AM	#22
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	top 3 offense for almost his entire tenure and he did it without a stud receiver. not bad in my book __________________
Posts: 95,626

12-20-2005, 11:05 AM	#25
Simplex3 MVP Join Date: Sep 2003 Casino cash: $10004900	My problem with AS isn't that he is a terrible coach. My problem is that we can't get rid of ALL the players, but if you keep players and coaches but send a few coaches packing what have you really changed? The only way a current Chiefs coach can win the players back would be to take the job, unmercifully fire every other coach, then become a different person than they were when DV was here. I don't see AS doing that because of his loyalty to DV.
Posts: 28,527