Archive of photos from Civil Rights Era found

[the Talking Can]

...and published for the first time in the Birmingham News.

Amazing photos...worth a look.

HERE...




"August 1963: An anti-Semitic demonstrator marches on 22nd St. in Birmingham."



"April 19, 1956: During sentencing for the 1956 beating of entertainer Nat “King” Cole at Municipal Auditorium, Jesse Mabry, E.L. Vinson, Mike Fox and Orliss Clevenger cover their faces inside a Birmingham courtroom."

[Valiant]

Originally Posted by jspchief

You can't just disassociate the new meaning of a symbol because it's original meaning was something else.

That's like saying the swastika shouldn't be associated with nazis because it's original meaning was a symbol of the sun.

Too many people look at that flag an associate it with racism now. The meaning has shifted. It's not something that will be undone.

So because people are ignorant we will let it slide??? What sense does that make and why do you except it??? You ask the rest of the world what our American flag means to them and see what negative ideas you get...

That's like saying the cross shouldn't be associate with nutjobs/genocide/murders/corruption/scandel because its original meaning was peace...

[Bootlegged]

You've come a long way baby..

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by listopencil

The swastika has typically meant Nazis in our culture imediately after Nazis came along. There are only very rare incidences of swastikas in our culture before we encountered them. That flag however, has nothing to do with racism. It is the battle flag of the Confederacy and was used (as well as others) by Southern soldiers conducting warfare against what they viewed as a repressive government. If anything, it represents the native American belief that rebellion for a good cause is legitimate. I know that people who are ignorant of its origins do not like it because it represents something completely different to them as it has been used by hateful bigots for 150 years or so. That's not a good enough reason to destroy a symbol or decree it obscene. Destroy the racist terrorists in our country and decree them obscene instead.

I understand the origin of the flag.

But that doesn't change the fact that the symbolism of that flag has shifted. Call it ignorance or whatever you want, but a symbol means what the person interpreting it thinks it means. To a lot of people in this world, that flag symbolizes a time and culture rife with racism. The meaning of a symbol is in the eye of the interpreter. In a large part of this country, that flag is interpreted as one of the banner's of a racist culture. Whatever it's initial meaning was, it means something else to a lot of people now.

Also, you can't deny the racist attitude of the large majority of people that hoisted that flag in it's infancy. If you want to excuse that attitude because they thought it was a good cause, then by the same token you can excuse the swastika because all the Germans were doing was fighting for a cause they believed in.

This isn't a deliberate use of Godwin's Law, itjust happens to be the most fitting analogy.

[Saulbadguy]

Originally Posted by Valiant

So because people are ignorant we will let it slide??? What sense does that make and why do you except it??? You ask the rest of the world what our American flag means to them and see what negative ideas you get...

That's like saying the cross shouldn't be associate with nutjobs/genocide/murders/corruption/scandel because its original meaning was peace...

It's what it has evolved to.

Partially because the only people who fly that flag ARE racist white trash folk.

[Ultra Peanut]

It's unfathomable to me how people could -- and still do -- hate other people and deny them basic human rights and dignity for no rational reason whatsoever.

We've come a long way, but we still have a long way to go.

Partially because the only people who fly that flag ARE racist white trash folk.

Not all, but "most" probably isn't a huge stretch.

[MOhillbilly]

it has everything to do w/ economics.



everything else said about why one race hates the other, is just smoke and mirrors.

[morphius]

Originally Posted by jspchief

I understand the origin of the flag.

But that doesn't change the fact that the symbolism of that flag has shifted. Call it ignorance or whatever you want, but a symbol means what the person interpreting it thinks it means. To a lot of people in this world, that flag symbolizes a time and culture rife with racism. The meaning of a symbol is in the eye of the interpreter. In a large part of this country, that flag is interpreted as one of the banner's of a racist culture. Whatever it's initial meaning was, it means something else to a lot of people now.

Thats the advantage of States being able to chose a lot of what they do. If your state doesn't want to fly that flag, they don't have to, if their state sees it with a different meaning, then they can do what they want. Plus you have the freedom to not support that State by not buying products from there, and you are not forced to live there.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by morphius

Thats the advantage of States being able to chose a lot of what they do. If your state doesn't want to fly that flag, they don't have to, if their state sees it with a different meaning, then they can do what they want. Plus you have the freedom to not support that State by not buying products from there, and you are not forced to live there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not neccessarily agreeing with the statement that "that flag needs to go away".

I just don't agree when someone says that flag isn't a symbol of racism, simply because it's roots were something esle (even though those roots were also largely racist). A symbol's meaning can shift, and whatever the original meaning of that flag was, it is widely regarded as a symbol of racsim, or at the very least a harkening for a time when racism was rampant.

Personally, I think it's a more a symbol of white trash than anything else. However noble southerners want to pretend it is, it's the flag of an army that lost, and is now the standard for trailer parks and Lynrd Skynrd.

[MOhillbilly]

Originally Posted by jspchief

Don't get me wrong, I'm not neccessarily agreeing with the statement that "that flag needs to go away".

I just don't agree when someone says that flag isn't a symbol of racism, simply because it's roots were something esle (even though those roots were also largely racist). A symbol's meaning can shift, and whatever the original meaning of that flag was, it is widely regarded as a symbol of racsim, or at the very least a harkening for a time when racism was rampant.

Personally, I think it's a more a symbol of white trash than anything else. However noble southerners want to pretend it is, it's the flag of an army that lost, and is now the standard for trailer parks and Lynrd Skynrd.

coming from a yank i dont see how you can have any perseption of what white southerners think or thought about how the battleflag makes them feel.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by MOhillbilly

coming from a yank i dont see how you can have any perseption of what white southerners think or thought about how the battleflag makes them feel.

I don't care what white southerners thought or think about the flag. It's of no consequence to the point I'm making.

[Saulbadguy]

Originally Posted by ENDelt260

Or Southerners.

The difference?

[Donger]

Originally Posted by ENDelt260

Or Southerners.

I remember a poll some time ago that reported that something like 70% of southern blacks did not find the rebel flag to be offensive at all.

[MOhillbilly]

Originally Posted by jspchief

I don't care what white southerners thought or think about the flag. It's of no consequence to the point I'm making.

and that would be that all southerners who are proud of the heritage and may fly a battleflag are white trash?
kinda like saying all northerners who cant pull there pants up and have a dorag are gonna steal my stereo?


so wtf is the point youre making jsp?

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by MOhillbilly

and that would be that all southerners who are proud of the heritage and may fly a battleflag are white trash?
kinda like saying all northerners who cant pull there pants up and have a dorag are gonna steal my stereo?


so wtf is the point youre making jsp?

If you had bothered to read the thread, you'd probably already know the point I'm trying to make. That regardless of what the confederate flag once stood for, it is now widely interpreted as a symbol of racism.

I'm sorry if my comment about the flag and white trash struck a nerve. I'm just speaking of my own opinion, that you're more likely to see that flag on a bumper in a trailer park than in a gated community.

[MOhillbilly]

Originally Posted by jspchief

If you had bothered to read the thread, you'd probably already know the point I'm trying to make. That regardless of what the confederate flag once stood for, it is now widely interpreted as a symbol of racism.

I'm sorry if my comment about the flag and white trash struck a nerve. I'm just speaking of my own opinion, that you're more likely to see that flag on a bumper in a trailer park than in a gated community.

i read the thread.
see your last statement is where i have a bone to pick. Having spent time and known many peoples from the deep south its comments like "trailerpark" that makes me wonder if you say that because its what youve been told to say or because you know from experince.