It’s expensive, but it’s baaaahaaad. - Page 2

Radar Chief · 03-17-2006, 03:17 PM

The deadliest fighter jet goes operational.
March 2006

The F22 Raptor air superiority fighter is the meanest airplane in the skies, and now its' coming to a TFR near you.
It’s official: The United States Air Force has certified the world’s only "fifth generation" fighter jet as operationally ready. The Lockheed Martin F-22 combines supersonic speed (including supersonic cruise without afterburner) with stealth and advanced targeting, weaponry and defense capabilities to make it hands down the most advanced fighter jet on the planet. With plans to field 183 Raptors in all, the Air Force has already begun to fly operational missions with the jet, including homeland defense missions, so you might see one any day now.
It wasn’t a short gestation period for the world’s best air superiority fighter. The need for a jet like the F-22 to replace the F-15 was first officially voiced by the Air Force in the early 1980s. But the first flight of the prototype YF-22 didn’t take place until 1990, while the first supersonic flight wouldn’t occur for another seven years.
While much of its performance remains classified, according to some reports, in aerial combat tests against F-15s and other frontline U.S. fighters, the
F-22 had a near perfect "kill record" and was never picked up by its foes’ radar during mock combat flights.
Such capabilities come at a price, though: The cost of each F-22, by some estimates, is around $125 million.

Linky.

Pants · 03-17-2006, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donger

1. Russian pilots versus American pilots. Sorry, but the training isn't comparable.

2. Non-stealth versus stealth. Kind hard to fight when you're already dead.

3. American avionics are still FAR superior to Russian.

4. Sure the SUs can do some really cool tricks, but the odds of the SUs surviving long enough for the "Cobra" and other stuff to come into play are very low.

The old adage of "he who sees the other guy first and shoots first, wins" is still very applicable to 5G aircraft.

No such thing as stealth.

And I was purely talking plane vs plane. Nothing more. Imagine equally skilled pilots, ideal weather conditions, etc.

Logical · 03-17-2006, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metrolike

No such thing as stealth.

I refer you to my post one post before yours. I assure you as an engineer in the aerospace industry that this is not a good premise to work from.

**Donger** · 03-17-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metrolike

No such thing as stealth.

Pure stealth? No. All stealth aircraft have some RCS.

But, considering that the F-15Cs that got their asses handed to them recently didn't even detect the Raptors, and the C has one of the best radar systems in the world, forgive me for if I don't believe that the Russians would do any better (or even come close).

**morphius** · 03-17-2006, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad Logicslav

I refer you to my post one post before yours. I assure you as an engineer in the aerospace industry that this is not a good premise to work from.

But I read it on the web, it HAS to be true!

**Donger** · 03-17-2006, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metrolike

No such thing as stealth.

And I was purely talking plane vs plane. Nothing more. Imagine equally skilled pilots, ideal weather conditions, etc.

In a pure ACM, it would be a good fight. But that's not real world.

Radar Chief · 03-17-2006, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad Logicslav

While to a very technical level that bolded statement is true, (i.e. an F117 will appear as a object about the size of a large bird on a radar screen, it is a highly self-deceiving thought.

Agreed.

Pants · 03-17-2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donger

In a pure ACM, it would be a good fight. But that's not real world.

I would seriously pay good money to see competitive training exercises between Americans and russkies. F-22 vs Su-35.

kaplin42 · 03-17-2006, 04:02 PM

I was watching a discovery channel special on these planes a little while ago. They said that the radar on the planes is so advance that they can pick up enemy aircraft, launch their missles and bug out of the area before the enemy ever realizes there might be someone there.

HC_Chief · 03-17-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metrolike

I would seriously pay good money to see competitive training exercises between Americans and russkies. F-22 vs Su-35.

35 would be shot down prior to sight range. The SU avionics and in-flight radar systems would only detect the IR missiles prior to splash.

The days of the close-in dogfight are over. A2A combat isn't a fair fight - it's standoff weaponry nailing targets 25-150miles down range.

The SU-35 has superior thrust-vectoring; the rooskies excel in that technology. Problem is with their radar and guidance systems. They are way behind in that regard. Due to that fact, they'd be splashed w/o even knowing where the shots came from.

Hell, that holds true for facing Tomcats & the Phoenix AAM... Phoenix is the size of a Volkswagon van; launches at targets at 100+ miles.

**Donger** · 03-17-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metrolike

I would seriously pay good money to see competitive training exercises between Americans and russkies. F-22 vs Su-35.

I wouldn't pay much to see a slaughter.

Unless the Broncos were involved.

**Donger** · 03-17-2006, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HC_Chief

35 would be shot down prior to sight range. The SU avionics and in-flight radar systems would only detect the IR missiles prior to splash.

The days of the close-in dogfight are over. A2A combat isn't a fair fight - it's standoff weaponry nailing targets 25-150miles down range.

The SU-35 has superior thrust-vectoring; the rooskies excel in that technology. Problem is with their radar and guidance systems. They are way behind in that regard. Due to that fact, they'd be splashed w/o even knowing where the shots came from.

Hell, that holds true for facing Tomcats & the Phoenix AAM... Phoenix is the size of a Volkswagon van; launches at targets at 100+ miles.

Thankfully, however, they learned the lesson from the Phantom not having a gun in the early days of Vietnam, since dogfights were "a thing of the past."

The Raptor has a good, ole Vulcan cannon, just in case.

HC_Chief · 03-17-2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donger

Thankfully, however, they learned the lesson from the Phantom not having a gun in the early days of Vietnam, since dogfights were "a thing of the past."

The Raptor has a good, ole Vulcan cannon, just in case.

Yep

ALWAYS better to be safe than sorry.

If all things were equal, without radar and missiles, just straight-up gunning by line of sight, the SU-35 would be one tough bird to take down. The Russian thrust-vectoring is superior in every way. Their vectoring is a full 360degree vector, whereas the F22 vectors on the Y axis only; and to a lesser angle.

Dinny Bossa Nova · 03-17-2006, 04:14 PM

Only $125 million??????

Gimme two of 'em!!!!!!!

Dinny

Pants · 03-17-2006, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HC_Chief

Yep

ALWAYS better to be safe than sorry.

If all things were equal, without radar and missiles, just straight-up gunning by line of sight, the SU-35 would be one tough bird to take down. The Russian thrust-vectoring is superior in every way. Their vectoring is a full 360degree vector, whereas the F22 vectors on the Y axis only; and to a lesser angle.

Dude, WTF is with that avatar?

**Donger** · 03-17-2006, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metrolike

Dude, WTF is with that avatar?

That's a picture of a Russian pilot without a g suit doing a Cobra in a SU-37.

03-17-2006, 03:17 PM
Radar Chief Wearing ballistic dog goggles. Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: In the box. Casino cash: $2811503	It’s expensive, but it’s baaaahaaad. The deadliest fighter jet goes operational. March 2006 The F22 Raptor air superiority fighter is the meanest airplane in the skies, and now its' coming to a TFR near you. It’s official: The United States Air Force has certified the world’s only "fifth generation" fighter jet as operationally ready. The Lockheed Martin F-22 combines supersonic speed (including supersonic cruise without afterburner) with stealth and advanced targeting, weaponry and defense capabilities to make it hands down the most advanced fighter jet on the planet. With plans to field 183 Raptors in all, the Air Force has already begun to fly operational missions with the jet, including homeland defense missions, so you might see one any day now. It wasn’t a short gestation period for the world’s best air superiority fighter. The need for a jet like the F-22 to replace the F-15 was first officially voiced by the Air Force in the early 1980s. But the first flight of the prototype YF-22 didn’t take place until 1990, while the first supersonic flight wouldn’t occur for another seven years. While much of its performance remains classified, according to some reports, in aerial combat tests against F-15s and other frontline U.S. fighters, the F-22 had a near perfect "kill record" and was never picked up by its foes’ radar during mock combat flights. Such capabilities come at a price, though: The cost of each F-22, by some estimates, is around $125 million. Linky.
Posts: 25,546

03-17-2006, 04:02 PM	#23
kaplin42 Thats Right, Sniff the Glue!!! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: tubbytronic superdome Casino cash: $10007177	I was watching a discovery channel special on these planes a little while ago. They said that the radar on the planes is so advance that they can pick up enemy aircraft, launch their missles and bug out of the area before the enemy ever realizes there might be someone there.
Posts: 3,469

03-17-2006, 04:14 PM	#28
Dinny Bossa Nova MVP Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $9990442	Only $125 million?????? Gimme two of 'em!!!!!!! Dinny
Posts: 5,050