Illegal Immigration: What should we do? - Page 2

**Mr. Kotter** · 04-11-2006, 11:42 AM

MODS: I'm interested in finding out what CP members think about this issue, and while I understand it's an issue ripe for political discussion.....I'd ask for it to remain in the Lounge for a couple of days, if at all possible, before moving it to its inevitable death in DC.

Fellow ChiefsPlanet posters: Can we try to have a reasonable discussion over this issue without it becoming too heated and denigrating into purely partisan demagoguery or racist insults? Please?

FWIW, I'm following the debate over immigration legislation somewhat closely, and I'm trying to figure out what the middle ground--if there is any--on the issue might be.

Thanks in advance for you opinions and posts.

Poll to follow, shortly....

**Mr. Kotter** · 04-11-2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

I was listening to the radio about Australia's immigration policy, that is based on a point system.

A few things you get points for:
Higher education in your country or this one
ability to speak english
highly skilled professional

I'm sure there are others, but the point is, the emphasis is on letting peopl in that are a boon to the tax pool, and make America smarter.

Of course, that doesn't address the current illegal problem from our southern borders. I think the first step in resolving that issue is sealing the border from illegals. There's little sense in trying to bail water, when we haven't fixed (or even slowed) the leak. Any sort of amnesty program will just encourage the next wave to sneak in and get their free citizenship that the US hands out every 20 years.

There is already a program in place like this in the US, for LEGAL immigrants....it would be interesting to develop one for illegals, should we decide on some level of amnesty.....

DJJasonp · 04-11-2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

I was listening to the radio about Australia's immigration policy, that is based on a point system.

A few things you get points for:
Higher education in your country or this one
ability to speak english
highly skilled professional

I'm sure there are others, but the point is, the emphasis is on letting peopl in that are a boon to the tax pool, and make America smarter.

Of course, that doesn't address the current illegal problem from our southern borders. I think the first step in resolving that issue is sealing the border from illegals. There's little sense in trying to bail water, when we haven't fixed (or even slowed) the leak. Any sort of amnesty program will just encourage the next wave to sneak in and get their free citizenship that the US hands out every 20 years.

I agree with a lot of what Australia's system is about.....but here in the US....it would be seen as racist by many.

Bottom line is: what part of the word "illegal" do people not understand?

**Mr. Kotter** · 04-11-2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katipan

Kick them all out and start over.

Everyone drive to a field and pull up a cabbage on your way to work.

How about the Fillipino immigrants? Eh?

Katipan · 04-11-2006, 12:01 PM

My mommy did it the right way.

My daddy certainly seemed to think so.

That was gross. Even for me.

**Mr. Kotter** · 04-11-2006, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saulbadguy

Set up an Ellis Island type deal to allowed faster processing of immigrants. Set up certain dates throughout the year when people can legally immigrate, and adhere to those standards. Declare amnesty for all those currently in the US, however, set restrictions on what they can and can not do, and if they decide to return to Mexico, they have to come back "legally" through the "Ellis Island".

JMO - I think our friends to the South can be a huge asset rather than a burden.

I agree. I understand the desire by many, to not reward illegal behavior....but I'm trying to be realistic, I guess.

**Mr. Kotter** · 04-11-2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katipan

My mommy did it the right way.

My daddy certainly seemed to think so.

That was gross. Even for me.

heh.

I don't care who you are....imagining your parents procreating, or similating procreation, is gross!

**Mr. Kotter** · 04-11-2006, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Simple solution.

1. Enforce the laws. If we can't enforce them, we should change them to something more realistic.

2. If people want to come here and settle and be citizens and and join the American culture, fine. Our current system works for that.

3. If someone wants to come to America and make money and send it back to another country, then we charge them for a "guest worker" visa. We figure out the appropriate cost to ensure that we have enough low-skill workers, but not too many. We then use the money raised to increase border patrols and make sure that any people coming in to export money are paying a fee to do so.

What would you do to companies too lazy to thoroughly check immigration status of their employees, or those who knowingly hire illegals?

I say, drop the friggin' HAMMER on them. Big time.

I bet that alone would stem much of the influx....

DJJasonp · 04-11-2006, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

What would you do to companies too lazy to thoroughly check immigration status of their employees, or those who knowingly hire illegals?

I say, drop the friggin' HAMMER on them. Big time.

I bet that alone would stem much of the influx....

True...but then you would have even more crime from illegal immigrants than you do now....

In a 2004-2005 study, over 95% of outstanding felony warrants in Los Angeles County were for illegal immigrants.....

**Saulbadguy** · 04-11-2006, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

I agree. I understand the desire by many, to not reward illegal behavior....but I'm trying to be realistic, I guess.

I'd like to know more about the naturalization process. I don't buy the line of people coming here just to suck off the governments tit. I'd be willing to wager the vast majority of illegals are here to earn money.

jspchief · 04-11-2006, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

What would you do to companies too lazy to thoroughly check immigration status of their employees, or those who knowingly hire illegals?

I say, drop the friggin' HAMMER on them. Big time.

I bet that alone would stem much of the influx....

When the prices of your homes and produce double, just remember that it's because you were dropping the hammer.

**Saulbadguy** · 04-11-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

When the prices of your homes and produce double, just remember that it's because you were dropping the hammer.

Exactly. Alot of people don't realize how much of a strain it would put on the economy to "drop the hammer".

Mile High Mania · 04-11-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

When the prices of your homes and produce double, just remember that it's because you were dropping the hammer.

Well, in your scenario you're going to have to consider the impact that illegals have on the welfare/tax/schools/medical pieces to our society as well. There's a lot that we pay for while they're performing cheap labor to build homes and highways.

chagrin · 04-11-2006, 12:12 PM

I am only talking about the riff raff, naturally all are not here to "commit crime" - I have a tendency to go off on tangents.

**Saulbadguy** · 04-11-2006, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Well, in your scenario you're going to have to consider the impact that illegals have on the welfare/tax/schools/medical pieces to our society as well. There's a lot that we pay for while they're performing cheap labor to build homes and highways.

I'd be interested to see how much of that welfare and medical care are provided for illegals in comparison to legal US citizens.

**Donger** · 04-11-2006, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

When the prices of your homes and produce double, just remember that it's because you were dropping the hammer.

Sorry, but that's rather simplistic.

Even in industries with high concentrations of illegal workers -- such as construction, restaurants and some parts of agriculture -- the impact isn't as great as many people think. If there weren't illegal immigrants working in construction in places like Chicago and Miami, then demand for legal workers would go up, which would mean wages would rise. But very quickly, legal workers from other parts of the country would move to those cities, and wages would go back down. The net impact on wages would be relatively modest.

That's probably the best summation I've seen.

View Poll Results: What should we do? (Check ALL that apply)
Grant "amnesty" to illegals who've been here at least 2 full years. (time to be negotiated)	8	6.67%
Streamline the naturalization process for current illegals, expediting their road toward citizenship.	13	10.83%
Allow illegals now here to be naturalized, eventually; but crack down on "new" illegals	15	12.50%
Grant eventual citizenship to illegals, but after a waiting period, a symbolic fine, and strict naturalization requirements.	16	13.33%
Crackdown harshly on businesses that are lazy, or who knowingly hire illegals.	57	47.50%
Build a 700 mile fence/wall to be heavily fortified and guarded to stop future illegals.	38	31.67%
Illegals should face a significant fine, and repayment of any back taxes....before being considered for citizenship.	28	23.33%
Illegals here for less than two years should be deported.	23	19.17%
Illegals here from 2-7 years, would be evaluated on a case-by-case basis; good "citizens" could be naturalized, but some would be deported.	24	20.00%
Illegals here for at least 8 years, could apply for expedited citizenship if they've been law-adiding (generally) and held jobs consistently.	24	20.00%
Deport only those illegals who've become problems and have not consistently maintained employment.	20	16.67%
Deport ALL, or nearly all, who entered the country illegally.	55	45.83%
Increase border patrol SUBSTANTIALLY, possibly including use of the armed forces as necessary.	58	48.33%
Utilize armed forces as a routine part of daily border patrol.	38	31.67%
Do whatever GAZ says....	12	10.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

04-11-2006, 11:42 AM
Mr. Kotter The Dude Abides Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Dakota Country Casino cash: $3284285	Illegal Immigration: What should we do? MODS: I'm interested in finding out what CP members think about this issue, and while I understand it's an issue ripe for political discussion.....I'd ask for it to remain in the Lounge for a couple of days, if at all possible, before moving it to its inevitable death in DC. Fellow ChiefsPlanet posters: Can we try to have a reasonable discussion over this issue without it becoming too heated and denigrating into purely partisan demagoguery or racist insults? Please? FWIW, I'm following the debate over immigration legislation somewhat closely, and I'm trying to figure out what the middle ground--if there is any--on the issue might be. Thanks in advance for you opinions and posts. Poll to follow, shortly....
Posts: 46,900

04-11-2006, 12:01 PM	#19
Katipan MER Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Colorado Casino cash: $-929649	My mommy did it the right way. My daddy certainly seemed to think so. That was gross. Even for me. __________________ "Loving him is red."
Posts: 23,637

04-11-2006, 12:12 PM	#28
chagrin Giggitty! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Missoula, Mt Casino cash: $9804905	I am only talking about the riff raff, naturally all are not here to "commit crime" - I have a tendency to go off on tangents. __________________ Times have changed, so have I, things are better now.
Posts: 13,414