So who got the better QB, K.C. or Denver? - Page 2

Kclee · 05-02-2006, 10:18 AM

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ted/index.html

Yep, last year's overrated/underrated column was right on. Darren Sproles underrated? Check. Fabian Washington overrated? Check. In fact I bet this is another congratulatory call coming in now... Oh crap, it's Bears coach Lovie Smith. "You know I'm never going to let you live down that Tommie Harris/overrated bit two years ago."

Yeah, yeah, I know. Eli Manning still calls to taunt me every two weeks as well. What can I say, some years pan out better than others.

But I've got a good feeling about 2006.

Quarterback
Overrated: Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt
Let me start by saying I do think the pride of the Commodores could well be a solid NFL quarterback. Considering he spent much of his career running from unblocked pass-rushers and throwing to third-rate SEC receivers (until last season, when freshman stud Earl Bennett came on the scene), Cutler's accomplishments at Vandy -- 3,073 yards, 21 touchdowns and nine interceptions as a senior -- were nothing short of remarkable. But the mere fact that many among the NFL cognoscenti are even thinking about taking Cutler ahead of the most dangerous quarterback to come through the college ranks in years (hint: rhymes with "rinse tongue") makes Cutler overrated -- and raises serious questions about how some of these scouts themselves would perform on the Wonderlic.

Underrated: Brodie Croyle, Alabama
Considering how much emphasis the NFL puts on arm strength, you'd think they'd be falling all over themselves for this guy. Croyle has a gun (just ask the Florida secondary). His mechanics are impeccable and his natural leadership abilities had a great deal to do with the Tide jumping out to a 9-0 start last season. I'm sure his substantial injury history (he underwent shoulder and ACL surgeries while in Tuscaloosa) is helping to knock him down the pecking order, but the fifth-year senior was a picture of health last season when he completed nearly 60 percent of his passes for 2,499 yards, 14 touchdowns and just four interceptions. This, despite the fact he played behind a horrendous offensive line that allowed 39 sacks and had to work with a largely unreliable receiving corps after Tyrone Prothro went down with a broken leg.

htismaqe · 05-02-2006, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicPal

Huh? That doesn't make any sense: Cutler has far more upside....I'll take Croyle.

You want the lesser of the better?

Cutler has more upside, that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be better. There's a good chance he could be a complete bust too.

Neither will start next year, which means neither team needed a QB. Even if they did, Croyle is far more ready to play now than Cutler is.

To me, Cutler is an 8 out of 10 for potential and a 2 out of 10 for risk. Croyle is about a 4 or 5. When you factor in what each team gave up to get them, I'd absolutely take Croyle.

stevieray · 05-02-2006, 10:56 AM

I met the scout and excoach at the draft dinner last night, who coached Namath and Stabler at Alabama, and he was really high on Brodie. Said he'll remind you of Montana. Said he's been playing in the system we run here, and his learning curve is small.

**CosmicPal** · 05-02-2006, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archie Bunker

Who is your pick Taco?

Of course, he's going to say it's Cutler.

If for any reason, he was picked in the first round and not in the third round.

**CosmicPal** · 05-02-2006, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Cutler has more upside, that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be better. There's a good chance he could be a complete bust too.

Neither will start next year, which means neither team needed a QB. Even if they did, Croyle is far more ready to play now than Cutler is.

To me, Cutler is an 8 out of 10 for potential and a 2 out of 10 for risk. Croyle is about a 4 or 5. When you factor in what each team gave up to get them, I'd absolutely take Croyle.

Good point. But, I like Cutler chances better because Denver has a better history of drafting QB's than KC does.

Despite KC's poor history in drafting QB's, I like Croyle's chances better than any QB we drafted in the past. You have to like a guy who was knocked down on nearly every play, and to get back up and throw as well as he did with poise under pressure. We all know both he and Cutler have the intangilbles, but will they both be able to understand not only the complicated offenses, but the speed of the defenses? Only time will tell.

Whosurdaddy · 05-02-2006, 11:01 AM

Wonderlic(maybee)

htismaqe · 05-02-2006, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicPal

Good point. But, I like Cutler chances better because Denver has a better history of drafting QB's than KC does.

Despite KC's poor history in drafting QB's, I like Croyle's chances better than any QB we drafted in the past. You have to like a guy who was knocked down on nearly every play, and to get back up and throw as well as he did with poise under pressure. We all know both he and Cutler have the intangilbles, but will they both be able to understand not only the complicated offenses, but the speed of the defenses? Only time will tell.

Since 1982:

Buddy Funck
Todd Ellis
Shawn Moore
Tommy Maddox (25th overall)
Jeff Lewis
Brian Griese
Jarius Jackson
Matt Mauck

That's a great history of drafting QB's right there...

vailpass · 05-02-2006, 11:06 AM

This is simply the funniest homer-thread I've ever seen on CP. You are SERIOUSLY debating whether Brodie "two blown ACLs, a blown shoulder, and a skinny frame" Croyle is going to be a better NFL QB than Cutler. I love it.

Oh, please put my vote in for Cutler.

(Chiefs fans are so cute to watch sometimes; ya' lovable losers you.)

teedubya · 05-02-2006, 11:07 AM

Campus: 4.9 seconds in the 40-yard dash...275-pound bench press...33.5-inch vertical jump...31 ½-inch arm length...10-inch hands...Right-handed...24/42 Wonderlic score.

http://www2.jsonline.com/packer/insi...=Croyle&pos=QB

Taco John · 05-02-2006, 11:09 AM

I'm going to make a reach here and say it's the guy who went in the top 15 over the guy who went at position #85.

Given that Croyle is a walking surgery (missed his senior season of high school with a torn left ACL, separated his shoulder during the 2004 season, tore his right ACL in 2004), I have my doubts he'll even play much at this level.

Aside from that, I can only go on scouting reports, where Cutler has Croyle beat in just about every category. Cutler has proven already to be a better third down quarterback, which I think is crucial at this level. Cutler is faster on his feet than Croyle is, and that lack of speed has hurt Croyle's third down conversion percentage. Cutler has proven to be more natural than Croyle at making a second chance at a play happen, due to his athleticism and ability to escape.

According to the scouting reports, there's a reason why Cutler was drafted at 11 and Croyle was drafted at 85. You definitely got good value at the spot... That's a nice place to draft a Quarterback with Croyle's upside and downside. Bottom line, if Croyle were tougher, he'd probably have been a first rounder.

**CosmicPal** · 05-02-2006, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Since 1982:

Buddy Funck
Todd Ellis
Shawn Moore
Tommy Maddox (25th overall)
Jeff Lewis
Brian Griese
Jarius Jackson
Matt Mauck

That's a great history of drafting QB's right there...

John Elway.

Brian Griese at least ended up a starter, as did Maddox.

Who have we drafted since that period?

Blackledge?

Fuller? He did become a starter
Blundin?

And gawd knows who else.

Of course, you can make the argument that Denver didn't draft Elway, they instead STOLE his arrogant California azz.

NewChief · 05-02-2006, 11:11 AM

In all likelihood they'll both end up sucking and we won't even remember them in 3-4 years.

vailpass · 05-02-2006, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hali Chi3fs

Campus: 4.9 seconds in the 40-yard dash...275-pound bench press...33.5-inch vertical jump...31 ½-inch arm length...10-inch hands...Right-handed...24/42 Wonderlic score.

http://www2.jsonline.com/packer/insi...=Croyle&pos=QB

Cutler:
Campus: 4.81 in the 40-yard dash...400-pound bench press...Bench pressed 225 pounds 27 times...480-pound squat...295-pound power clean...315-pound hang clean...32-inch vertical jump...31 ½-inch arm length...9 3/8-inch hands...Right-handed...26/36 Wonderlic score.

http://www2.jsonline.com/packer/insi...=Cutler&pos=QB

Taco John · 05-02-2006, 11:12 AM

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/croyle_brodie

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/cutler_jay

**Iowanian** · 05-02-2006, 11:26 AM

I think its far too early to tell, and in truth, due to the fact that Cutler was traded UP in the first round to select, and the Chiefs drafted Croyle in the 3rd more would be expected of the newest Elway replacement.

They both had some Oline issues in college and subpar WRs. From the little I've seen and what I've read, Cutler has a great arm, but Croyle has a little more power and good accuracy.

I think it will boil down to many factors we can't predict..Oline, WRs, coaching and mental capacity under pressure.....and injuries.

Today....I'll give Cutler the Nod.

Ask me again in 3 years.

htismaqe · 05-02-2006, 11:33 AM

Denver did not draft Elway.

05-02-2006, 10:18 AM
Kclee Veteran Join Date: Mar 2002 Casino cash: $10014147	So who got the better QB, K.C. or Denver? http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ted/index.html Yep, last year's overrated/underrated column was right on. Darren Sproles underrated? Check. Fabian Washington overrated? Check. In fact I bet this is another congratulatory call coming in now... Oh crap, it's Bears coach Lovie Smith. "You know I'm never going to let you live down that Tommie Harris/overrated bit two years ago." Yeah, yeah, I know. Eli Manning still calls to taunt me every two weeks as well. What can I say, some years pan out better than others. But I've got a good feeling about 2006. Quarterback Overrated: Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt Let me start by saying I do think the pride of the Commodores could well be a solid NFL quarterback. Considering he spent much of his career running from unblocked pass-rushers and throwing to third-rate SEC receivers (until last season, when freshman stud Earl Bennett came on the scene), Cutler's accomplishments at Vandy -- 3,073 yards, 21 touchdowns and nine interceptions as a senior -- were nothing short of remarkable. But the mere fact that many among the NFL cognoscenti are even thinking about taking Cutler ahead of the most dangerous quarterback to come through the college ranks in years (hint: rhymes with "rinse tongue") makes Cutler overrated -- and raises serious questions about how some of these scouts themselves would perform on the Wonderlic. Underrated: Brodie Croyle, Alabama Considering how much emphasis the NFL puts on arm strength, you'd think they'd be falling all over themselves for this guy. Croyle has a gun (just ask the Florida secondary). His mechanics are impeccable and his natural leadership abilities had a great deal to do with the Tide jumping out to a 9-0 start last season. I'm sure his substantial injury history (he underwent shoulder and ACL surgeries while in Tuscaloosa) is helping to knock him down the pecking order, but the fifth-year senior was a picture of health last season when he completed nearly 60 percent of his passes for 2,499 yards, 14 touchdowns and just four interceptions. This, despite the fact he played behind a horrendous offensive line that allowed 39 sacks and had to work with a largely unreliable receiving corps after Tyrone Prothro went down with a broken leg.
Posts: 2,245

05-02-2006, 10:56 AM	#17
stevieray Most things I worry about… Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Under Pressure Casino cash: $-1394727	I met the scout and excoach at the draft dinner last night, who coached Namath and Stabler at Alabama, and he was really high on Brodie. Said he'll remind you of Montana. Said he's been playing in the system we run here, and his learning curve is small.
Posts: 74,142

05-02-2006, 11:01 AM	#20
Whosurdaddy Spaceman Spiff Join Date: May 2005 Location: The internets Casino cash: $9069154	Wonderlic(maybee)
Posts: 272

05-02-2006, 11:06 AM	#22
vailpass Psycho Bag Of Squanch Join Date: Sep 2001 Casino cash: $9594244	This is simply the funniest homer-thread I've ever seen on CP. You are SERIOUSLY debating whether Brodie "two blown ACLs, a blown shoulder, and a skinny frame" Croyle is going to be a better NFL QB than Cutler. I love it. Oh, please put my vote in for Cutler. (Chiefs fans are so cute to watch sometimes; ya' lovable losers you.) __________________ “Education is a weapon whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.” Joseph Stalin
Posts: 69,591

05-02-2006, 11:07 AM	#23
teedubya Most Valuable Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Casino cash: $8993042	Campus: 4.9 seconds in the 40-yard dash...275-pound bench press...33.5-inch vertical jump...31 ½-inch arm length...10-inch hands...Right-handed...24/42 Wonderlic score. http://www2.jsonline.com/packer/insi...=Croyle&pos=QB
Posts: 36,832

05-02-2006, 11:09 AM	#24
Taco John Sapere Aude Join Date: Jun 2001 Casino cash: $427937	I'm going to make a reach here and say it's the guy who went in the top 15 over the guy who went at position #85. Given that Croyle is a walking surgery (missed his senior season of high school with a torn left ACL, separated his shoulder during the 2004 season, tore his right ACL in 2004), I have my doubts he'll even play much at this level. Aside from that, I can only go on scouting reports, where Cutler has Croyle beat in just about every category. Cutler has proven already to be a better third down quarterback, which I think is crucial at this level. Cutler is faster on his feet than Croyle is, and that lack of speed has hurt Croyle's third down conversion percentage. Cutler has proven to be more natural than Croyle at making a second chance at a play happen, due to his athleticism and ability to escape. According to the scouting reports, there's a reason why Cutler was drafted at 11 and Croyle was drafted at 85. You definitely got good value at the spot... That's a nice place to draft a Quarterback with Croyle's upside and downside. Bottom line, if Croyle were tougher, he'd probably have been a first rounder. __________________ Ehyeh asher ehyeh. Donger's Razor: "The most establishment-friendly explanation that gives leftist and neocon politicians the most amount of cover is the only possible explanation, even when gaping holes and leaps of logic are required to get there."
Posts: 79,768

05-02-2006, 11:11 AM	#26
NewChief In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Fayetteville, AR Casino cash: $7090204	In all likelihood they'll both end up sucking and we won't even remember them in 3-4 years. __________________ In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. - H. L. Mencken
Posts: 21,845

05-02-2006, 11:12 AM	#28
Taco John Sapere Aude Join Date: Jun 2001 Casino cash: $427937	http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/croyle_brodie http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/cutler_jay __________________ Ehyeh asher ehyeh. Donger's Razor: "The most establishment-friendly explanation that gives leftist and neocon politicians the most amount of cover is the only possible explanation, even when gaping holes and leaps of logic are required to get there."
Posts: 79,768

05-02-2006, 11:26 AM	#29
Iowanian Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Utopia Casino cash: $1638454	I think its far too early to tell, and in truth, due to the fact that Cutler was traded UP in the first round to select, and the Chiefs drafted Croyle in the 3rd more would be expected of the newest Elway replacement. They both had some Oline issues in college and subpar WRs. From the little I've seen and what I've read, Cutler has a great arm, but Croyle has a little more power and good accuracy. I think it will boil down to many factors we can't predict..Oline, WRs, coaching and mental capacity under pressure.....and injuries. Today....I'll give Cutler the Nod. Ask me again in 3 years.
Posts: 62,945

05-02-2006, 11:33 AM	#30
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $8069900	Denver did not draft Elway.
Posts: 104,482