I've never seen a defensive coordinator given so much as Carl has given Gunther...

[DaWolf]

It's as if he's trying to apologize for firing him.

He rehires him and makes him one of the highest paid DC's in football and Gun tells him he will turn around that defense and win a Superbowl with that offense because to not do so would be a crime.

That failed, so Gun blames the players, and Carl goes out and gets Gun every single player on his list. Gun is happy and says that he finally has the pieces to make the fans of Kansas City proud.

That failed, so Gun blames the players AND the coaches AND the head coach, so Carl goes out and gets Gun a defensive minded head coach, who is going to cater the offense to help Gun's defense, spends his first two draft picks on players Gun drooled over, got Gun a whole new defensive coaching staff, and topped it off by signing one of the best corners in football.

I would say Gun has run out of excuses but I said that going into last year. I guess he's just run out of places to point the finger at. If gun doesn't get it done this year I want his a$$ canned so fast that he won't even have time to log onto his PC at 3:12 AM to read the latest on Chiefs Planet...

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by FringeNC

Come on. When he had the same players as GR did (Gun's first year), the D was worse than GR's 2003 D.

Here's the only legitimate argument one can make if you ask me:

Either both Gun and GR get a free-ride because Carl assembled one of the most talent-less squads ever or they're both terrible D coordinators.

So...either Gun is a moron, or Carl is a moron.

He also brought in a new scheme with players that were far below average. THey couldnt adapt to what he was doing, SO he is getting players that he thinks get his style of defense. Chiefs D went from read and react, to half read and react and half attack. It was obvious that Gun couldnt do what he wanted with his cornerbacks. SUrtain and Warfield playing 10 yards off the wide outs becuase he knew that he had no push up front and that the ONLY one that coudl get to the quarterback was Allen. Gun had to somewhat adjust his style of Defense becuase he did not have the kind of players up front to attack.

There is no excuses this year for them this year. ON paper i think they should be a top 15 D. I am one of the few that like our starting safeties. My only problem is our interior line. That worries me somewhat.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

He also brought in a new scheme with players that were far below average. THey couldnt adapt to what he was doing, SO he is getting players that he thinks get his style of defense. Chiefs D went from read and react, to half read and react and half attack. It was obvious that Gun couldnt do what he wanted with his cornerbacks. SUrtain and Warfield playing 10 yards off the wide outs becuase he knew that he had no push up front and that the ONLY one that coudl get to the quarterback was Allen. Gun had to somewhat adjust his style of Defense becuase he did not have the kind of players up front to attack.

There is no excuses this year for them this year. ON paper i think they should be a top 15 D. I am one of the few that like our starting safeties. My only problem is our interior line. That worries me somewhat.

Nothing like shelling out $60M+ on cornerbacks just because that's what it takes to run the "scheme".

[melbar]

I think he's appologizing to not just Gunther , but also the FANs for ruining our beautifull D of the 80's . Dont forget that Gunther was the Coordinator of several of those Defenses and some pretty darn good ones in San Diego, Oakland, and Tennessee.
Of course we are stocking up on D because our offense is #1. Our D is 31st. Where would you spend your money and your picks?

[melbar]

Oops I meant 90's....

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by bunnytrdr

Don't you think Gun did a little of feeding the masses what they wanted to hear after the first year? I mean, most everone on the Planet said the players sucked so bad, so Gunther said the players sucked so bad.

The year before that, the fans said, the coach sucked so bad. I am afraid to admit it, but Dammit Carl is just giving into the fans demands at all points, within budgetary constraints of course.

Thats what makes this so funny. All the fans thought Robinson sucked, so we replaced him. All the fans thought we didn't have the talent, so we got some FAs. All the fans thought coaches like Guinta sucked, so we replaced them.

They are doing exactly what everyone thought they needed to do, yet somehow it's become "making excuses". It's possible that the front office and Gun don't know how to fix the D. It's also possible that everything they've tried so far really did need to be done, and it wasn't a matter of just one thing.

After this year, I'd say the criticism will be deserved. But I just don't see how anyone had such high expectations for this defense in only two years.

[FringeNC]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

There is no excuses this year for them this year.

That's what was said LAST year.

Look, those of you giving Gun a free-ride his first year are neglection one important point: Gun was brought here not to work miracles...(bring us from last to a top 10 or something like that), but simply make the D respectable. We set multiple ALL-TIME NFL records on offense in 2004. All for not....because Gun's D was so damn putrid.

From day one, Gun knew his job...and instead of a slight improvement from 2003, we went down the toilet even further...

That is complete FAILURE.

And then we went out and spend money, and had some good contribution from draft picks..and it was still awful last year.... So many games where the D didn't get torched have asterisks... SD (field unplayable), NE (decimated with injuries), Cinci (nothing to play for)[and all those in my opinion are BIG asterisks]

Other teams we stopped last year were the awful, unprepared NY Jets to open the season, Miami (not a very good offense at the time, but I will give the D a little credit. They were in impressive.), Houston (joke of an offense)

When we played a good offensive team last year, with no asterisks, they torched us.

Now replacing Warfield with Law should be a big improvement. Throwing at Warfield was an automatic first down.

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by FringeNC

That's what was said LAST year.

Look, those of you giving Gun a free-ride his first year are neglection one important point: Gun was brought here not to work miracles...(bring us from last to a top 10 or something like that), but simply make the D respectable. We set multiple ALL-TIME NFL records on offense in 2004. All for not....because Gun's D was so damn putrid.

From day one, Gun knew his job...and instead of a slight improvement from 2003, we went down the toilet even further...

That is complete FAILURE.

And then we went out and spend money, and had some good contribution from draft picks..and it was still awful last year.... So many games where the D didn't get torched have asterisks... SD (field unplayable), NE (decimated with injuries), Cinci (nothing to play for)[and all those in my opinion are BIG asterisks]

Other teams we stopped last year were the awful, unprepared NY Jets to open the season, Miami (not a very good offense at the time, but I will give the D a little credit. They were in impressive.), Houston (joke of an offense)

When we played a good offensive team last year, with no asterisks, they torched us.

Now replacing Warfield with Law should be a big improvement. Throwing at Warfield was an automatic first down.

that's how I feel about Gun...especially your first point

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Gun is out of excuses.

He chose to return here.

If he was naive to the situation, that's his fault for not doing the research.

If it was the coaches, that's his fault for not insisting on his own coaches.

There's just NO WAY one can slice this where Gunther is absolved of blame.

Never said that. Never meant to insinuate that, either.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by jspchief

Thats what makes this so funny. All the fans thought Robinson sucked, so we replaced him. All the fans thought we didn't have the talent, so we got some FAs. All the fans thought coaches like Guinta sucked, so we replaced them.

They are doing exactly what everyone thought they needed to do, yet somehow it's become "making excuses". It's possible that the front office and Gun don't know how to fix the D. It's also possible that everything they've tried so far really did need to be done, and it wasn't a matter of just one thing.

After this year, I'd say the criticism will be deserved. But I just don't see how anyone had such high expectations for this defense in only two years.

Don't put me in that camp.

I have been screaming about talent since 1999. If we had given Robinson the tools to work with (Surtain, Bell, DJ, etc.) that Gunther had been given, I'd bet alot of money that we'd be better. Robinson won 2 Super Bowls with the kind of talent we have now.

[BigRedChief]

This is the first late addition FA that I can remember that had possible cap implications down the road. King Carl usually doesn't like being in cap hell in the future because of trying to make a push this year.

Kudos to King Carl! and Gun had better show some results of this upgrade in talent or maybe it wasn't a GR issue?

[FringeNC]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Don't put me in that camp.

I have been screaming about talent since 1999. If we had given Robinson the tools to work with (Surtain, Bell, DJ, etc.) that Gunther had been given, I'd bet alot of money that we'd be better. Robinson won 2 Super Bowls with the kind of talent we have now.

Yep. Carl and Gun's egos caused them to believe Robinson's schemes were the problem, and that a little pinch of Gun's magic smelling salts would make everything all better.

[morphius]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Don't put me in that camp.

I have been screaming about talent since 1999. If we had given Robinson the tools to work with (Surtain, Bell, DJ, etc.) that Gunther had been given, I'd bet alot of money that we'd be better. Robinson won 2 Super Bowls with the kind of talent we have now.

I thought that from the top down all the D coaches pretty much sucked, and figured that when they got rid of Robinson that we would also get rid of them. In their tenure the only player that I can remember improving was Mitchell, which was the one player that Gun took under his wing. Everyone else stayed the same, some even taking steps backwards.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by morphius

I thought that from the top down all the D coaches pretty much sucked, and figured that when they got rid of Robinson that we would also get rid of them. In their tenure the only player that I can remember improving was Mitchell, which was the one player that Gun took under his wing. Everyone else stayed the same, some even taking steps backwards.

The position coaches may well have sucked, they were hand-picked by DV.

All I know is that Robinson has won Rose Bowl's and NC's as a college coach and Super Bowls in the NFL. The ONLY place he's failed was in Kansas City.

[morphius]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

The position coaches may well have sucked, they were hand-picked by DV.

All I know is that Robinson has won Rose Bowl's and NC's as a college coach and Super Bowls in the NFL. The ONLY place he's failed was in Kansas City.

Well he did get Fired in Denver...

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by jspchief

After this year, I'd say the criticism will be deserved. But I just don't see how anyone had such high expectations for this defense in only two years.

Every year a few teams will change their head coach or D-coordinator and make HUGE jumps defensively. But last year we didn't so maybe it was DV's fault.

The Bears went from 21th D in 04 to 2 in 05.

The Chiefs went from 31 to 25th. That to me is not impressive.

Gun is out of excuses if our D fails this year and should be shitcanned over the Intraweb.......again.