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View Poll Results: Would you take an OC who would develop our QB, but won't win games with play calling?
Yes, that's worth it to develop a young QB 10 40.00%
No, a good/great play caller is more important than developing a QB 15 60.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-12-2008, 07:39 PM  
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Would you take an OC who would develop our QB, but won't win games with play calling?
Would you take an OC who would develop our QB, but won't win games with play calling?

Knowing that we would end up as an average team (7-9, 8-8, 9-7) over the next three years.

But that the record came not from our play calling, but a strong defense, bad to average play calling and an increasingly more effective QB.

Assume the QB that is developing is Brodie Croyle.
Last edited by jAZ; 01-12-2008 at 10:21 PM..
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:39 PM   #16
milkman milkman is offline
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Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey
Herm's philosophy is just like Dungy's, Lovie's, and Jacksonville's Jack....
Is it?

All of those guys play to win.

They don't just talk about it.
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:49 PM   #17
crazycoffey crazycoffey is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Flopnuts Sr
Is it?

All of those guys play to win.

They don't just talk about it.

I said same philosophy, not the same execution...
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:51 PM   #18
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Seriously, is it asking too much to expect both at some point in my life?


I hear ya bro.
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:53 PM   #19
milkman milkman is offline
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Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey
I said same philosophy, not the same execution...
Actions speak louder than words.
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:53 PM   #20
crazycoffey crazycoffey is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Flopnuts Sr
Actions speak louder than words.

I know, but that spills over on the players too, and the GM, and the owner.....
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:57 PM   #21
Mr. Laz Mr. Laz is offline
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flawed poll imo


the ability to win games with play calling and develop a QB go together.
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:58 PM   #22
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laz
flawed poll imo


the ability to win games with play calling and develop a QB go together.

Exactly. Jaz needs to stick to D.C.
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Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning:

Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down.

One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
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Old 01-12-2008, 09:33 PM   #23
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laz
flawed poll imo


the ability to win games with play calling and develop a QB go together.
Hardly, IMO.

The implication there is that every great QB coach will be a great OC. That's just false.

The difference you seem to miss is the difference between a practice coach and a game coach. The OC must be a great game day coach, but the QB coach has minimal duties that day.

A practice coach, when put into place as an OC might be able to effectively coach a QB to be a great technician with quality decision making, great accuracy and quality touch on the short, mid and deep passes. He might also be able to bring out the QB's innate rhythm and sense of timing so that he has a feel for the flow of the game at NFL speed.

However, that OC might not be able to DO those same things himself under the pressure of game day. He might not have a feel for the flow of the game in pressure situations. He might not be effective at predicting the defenses response to the offenses alignments and therefore have the wrong audibles in place. He might be better at understanding past game situtations after he watches film 3-4 times than when a new game is unfolding before him.

He might be a terrible strategist, who gets out gamed by the opposing coaching staff.

There are all kinds of reasons why a successful QB coach would be able to succeed at one part of his job as an OC while faling to deliver the full package.
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Old 01-12-2008, 09:57 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by JohninGpt
I don't know a whole bunch about how an NFL coaching staff is set up, but isn't it reasonable to expect the OC to be a decent playcaller, and the job of developing the QB to go to the QB coach?
I agree with this post. That's what a QB coach is for and the OC is suppose to call the plays that give the team the best chance for success using the strengths of our team and going after the weekness of the opponents.
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Old 01-12-2008, 09:59 PM   #25
Jim Jones Jim Jones is offline
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If its the only alternative, I'd take it. If the QB develops into a good enough player, the play calling may not matter as long as it isn't so downright terrible that it costs us games.
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:07 PM   #26
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Originally Posted by KC Tattoo
I agree with this post. That's what a QB coach is for and the OC is suppose to call the plays that give the team the best chance for success using the strengths of our team and going after the weekness of the opponents.
The OC is responsible for everything on the offensive side of the ball. That's not the same as "does everything", but surely has impact in all phases.

Breaking down film, practice, practice, practice, play calling, substitutions, player development, etc.
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:16 PM   #27
Mr. Laz Mr. Laz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jAZ
Hardly, IMO.

The implication there is that every great QB coach will be a great OC. That's just false.

The difference you seem to miss is the difference between a practice coach and a game coach. The OC must be a great game day coach, but the QB coach has minimal duties that day.

A practice coach, when put into place as an OC might be able to effectively coach a QB to be a great technician with quality decision making, great accuracy and quality touch on the short, mid and deep passes. He might also be able to bring out the QB's innate rhythm and sense of timing so that he has a feel for the flow of the game at NFL speed.

However, that OC might not be able to DO those same things himself under the pressure of game day. He might not have a feel for the flow of the game in pressure situations. He might not be effective at predicting the defenses response to the offenses alignments and therefore have the wrong audibles in place. He might be better at understanding past game situtations after he watches film 3-4 times than when a new game is unfolding before him.

He might be a terrible strategist, who gets out gamed by the opposing coaching staff.

There are all kinds of reasons why a successful QB coach would be able to succeed at one part of his job as an OC while faling to deliver the full package.
so the guy knows how to teach a QB how to run an offense but can't actually do it himself.



whoda thunk it
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:18 PM   #28
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Who is Brady Croyle?
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:21 PM   #29
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laz
so the guy knows how to teach a QB how to run an offense but can't actually do it himself.



whoda thunk it
We get lazy with language, but the reality is that Payton Manning "runs an offense" in the same sense that an OC does.

Almost no other QB does that.

The reality is that a QB executes plays in an offense and when permitted, calls the occasional audible.

The OC manages the flow of the game through play calling.

Those aren't nearly the same thing.

A great QB can do both, but most don't.

A great OC can coach both ways, but I'd argue that most don't do both equally well.
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:22 PM   #30
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Who is Brady Croyle?
I have no idea.
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