What makes a QB a franchise QB?

[luv]

Smart, athletic, accurate, all of the above? What about mobility? Does being versatile in that way play into anything? I like watching a QB who knows how to handle himself, his team, and the ball. I think it's even more entertaining when they're ab;e to run the ball as well.

Define "franchise QB".

[luv]

Originally Posted by SBK

I would also like to add that a franchise QB is inferior to the ever threatening game manager who doesn't make mistakes.

Wouldn't a franchise QB be a game manager?

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by luv

Wouldn't a franchise QB be a game manager?

Hell NO.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by luv

Wouldn't a franchise QB be a game manager?

Nah see when people say game manager they basically mean a QB that is protected, asked to not throw INT's hand off let the defense play...you know the Marty thing.

Franchise QB's their teams give the games to them and tell them to win them.

[cdcox]

Originally Posted by luv

Wouldn't a franchise QB be a game manager?

Trent Green and Matt Hasselhoff are game managers. Decent guys, but they aren't going to wow you. Calling someone a game manger is a nice way of slamming a QB.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by luv

Wouldn't a franchise QB be a game manager?

/KC fans/

[ChiefsCountry]

Lets let look at examples - its easier than trying to explain in words.

Franchise QB
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Big Ben
Donovan McNabb
Carson Palmer
Phillip Rivers
Matt Ryan

Fringe Franchise QB's
Eli Manning
Tony Romo
Jay Cutler
Aaron Rodgers

Game Mangers
Chad Pennington
Kerry Collins
Trent Green
Tavarius Jackson/Gus Frettore
Kyle Orton

[Ebolapox]

hmmmmm... it isn't an exact science. there are guys like brady who slip through the cracks (by being undersized/skinny/unimpressive through the scouting process), and guys like ryan leaf who is as physically impressive as you could want, yet doesn't have it mental. so much of it is how they're developed/brought up in a system. there are guys like david carr who had a lot of talent, but wasn't taught how to succeed as a qb (film watching is an art that guys like peyton manning know, yet most young qbs never properly learn).

so, what does it take? off the top of my head (and a qb doesn't have to have ALL of these, but a good number of them... the more they have, the more successful they'll be)

1) intangibles. we'll break this down into several categories... a) desire to succeed. they're willing to work their ass off in the film room, which usually leads to success on the field. b) intelligence. ability to quickly process information gleaned by off-field preparation. c) 'it.' some guys have 'it,' some guys don't. this is impossible to define. guys like brady have it, roethlisberger, manning, etc.

2) arm strength. you don't have to have a cannon, but if you have a better arm, it's easier to make up for mistakes. if you have a plus-plus arm, it gives you more time to process in the pocket. in a game of milliseconds, that extra few moments is a LIFETIME.

3) confidence. guys like favre excel here. the ability to appear that you're always in charge--to get your team behind you. to be able to throw an interception and not shatter mentally.

4) work ethic. it kinda goes in 'intangibles,' but it's so important that it gets its own category. there really is a reason why guys like brady, manning, and the rest of the franchise guys succeed--they work their asses off.

5) right system. sure, the true franchise guys can play in any system. but let's be honest--if you put joe montana in a different system (not WCO), he doesn't have any rings. if you put warren moon in a WCO (and not run/shoot), his numbers aren't as gaudy and he isn't in the hall-of fame. coaching is VERY important--if your coaches utilize you properly, you'll be more able to utilize the first four attributes.


not sure if any of the above worked or made sense. it's hard to put together a list of qualities that make a guy a franchise qb. you have guys who have all of the physical talent, but something is lacking mentally. you have guys who have the mental game down pat, but can't complete the 20 yard out.

and after making my list, I'll go completely out on a limb (and keep in mind, I'm not a cassel homer. I still want us to go QB at number 3)

cassel:

1) from what I've read, he possesses a and b. we have no idea about C. if he has C, we'll have a lombardi at some point in the near future.

2) seems to have a 'good enough' arm. isn't weak-armed, but he's no stafford. however, you don't HAVE to have a howitzer to win the super bowl.

3) we have no idea at this point. none at all. probably the biggest unknown of cassel at this point.

4) as previously mentioned, everything I've read says that this is something cassel excels at. he has a great work ethic.

5) the other great unknown. will haley be smart enough to put cassel in a good position to succeed? who the **** knows right now.

[Mecca]

I'd use a video game analogy but I don't think she plays football video games.

[DeezNutz]

A game manager is like Pierce Brosnan's wife: steady, reliable, someone you can count on, not flashy, but someone whom you can be happy with.

A franchise QB is like Jessica Biel with the sex drive of Jenna Jameson in her prime. Give her the rock(s--as the case may be) and let 'er go to work. You won't be disappointed.

[RustShack]

Originally Posted by SBK

I think you'd be better off to just move Curry to QB.

Jesus Saves!

[cdcox]

Originally Posted by H5N1

hmmmmm... it isn't an exact science. there are guys like brady who slip through the cracks (by being undersized/skinny/unimpressive through the scouting process), and guys like ryan leaf who is as physically impressive as you could want, yet doesn't have it mental. so much of it is how they're developed/brought up in a system. there are guys like david carr who had a lot of talent, but wasn't taught how to succeed as a qb (film watching is an art that guys like peyton manning know, yet most young qbs never properly learn).

so, what does it take? off the top of my head (and a qb doesn't have to have ALL of these, but a good number of them... the more they have, the more successful they'll be)

1) intangibles. we'll break this down into several categories... a) desire to succeed. they're willing to work their ass off in the film room, which usually leads to success on the field. b) intelligence. ability to quickly process information gleaned by off-field preparation. c) 'it.' some guys have 'it,' some guys don't. this is impossible to define. guys like brady have it, roethlisberger, manning, etc.

2) arm strength. you don't have to have a cannon, but if you have a better arm, it's easier to make up for mistakes. if you have a plus-plus arm, it gives you more time to process in the pocket. in a game of milliseconds, that extra few moments is a LIFETIME.

3) confidence. guys like favre excel here. the ability to appear that you're always in charge--to get your team behind you. to be able to throw an interception and not shatter mentally.

4) work ethic. it kinda goes in 'intangibles,' but it's so important that it gets its own category. there really is a reason why guys like brady, manning, and the rest of the franchise guys succeed--they work their asses off.

5) right system. sure, the true franchise guys can play in any system. but let's be honest--if you put joe montana in a different system (not WCO), he doesn't have any rings. if you put warren moon in a WCO (and not run/shoot), his numbers aren't as gaudy and he isn't in the hall-of fame. coaching is VERY important--if your coaches utilize you properly, you'll be more able to utilize the first four attributes.


not sure if any of the above worked or made sense. it's hard to put together a list of qualities that make a guy a franchise qb. you have guys who have all of the physical talent, but something is lacking mentally. you have guys who have the mental game down pat, but can't complete the 20 yard out.

and after making my list, I'll go completely out on a limb (and keep in mind, I'm not a cassel homer. I still want us to go QB at number 3)

cassel:

1) from what I've read, he possesses a and b. we have no idea about C. if he has C, we'll have a lombardi at some point in the near future.

2) seems to have a 'good enough' arm. isn't weak-armed, but he's no stafford. however, you don't HAVE to have a howitzer to win the super bowl.

3) we have no idea at this point. none at all. probably the biggest unknown of cassel at this point.

4) as previously mentioned, everything I've read says that this is something cassel excels at. he has a great work ethic.

5) the other great unknown. will haley be smart enough to put cassel in a good position to succeed? who the **** knows right now.

I'd be interested to see how you rated Trent Green in these categories. To me, he's going to score a lot like you scored Cassel, but I never considered TG to be a franchise guy. Maybe because Cassel is younger than Trent was and we manage to put a defense together, Cassel (in the end) gets viewed much better than Trent.

[luv]

Originally Posted by Mecca

I'd use a video game analogy but I don't think she plays football video games.

I don't play any video games.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by luv

I don't play any video games.

Which is why using the analogy would be pointless it was going to be about playing with QB's with certain ratings.

[SBK]

On a more serious note, I would tend to say franchise QB's will be known for a few things.

1. They take games over. These are the kind of guys that you have to game plan around because they will beat you. Elway, Marino, Montana, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady all come to mind.

2. Because they are absolutely dominant you see them everywhere--which is why they're called The Franchise.

3. Teams that have a franchise QB will be good for a long time, because that QB will put the team on their back and win a lot of games. Peyton Manning has made the Colts into one of the best teams in the league over the last 10 years or so, even when their defense was as bad as KC's. It never matters who they play, people always think the Colts will win--entirely because of Manning. People didn't gameplan ways to score on their D, they didn't say the key to stopping them was to stop Edge. They went out and picked up Champ Bailey, or boatloads of DE's to try and stop them.

4. Most of the times these guys have $100,000,000+ contracts. The one exception to this rule is Michael Vick. But I can tell you living in Atlanta he got paid that much because he brought a lot more than that into the team, and the city here LOVED him.

[Ebolapox]

Originally Posted by cdcox

I'd be interested to see how you rated Trent Green in these categories. To me, he's going to score a lot like you scored Cassel, but I never considered TG to be a franchise guy. Maybe because Cassel is younger than Trent was and we manage to put a defense together, Cassel (in the end) gets viewed much better than Trent.

yeah, pretty much. however, to me, the most important attribute a QB can possess is 'it.' I know it's cliche. but there really is something that the truly great possess aside from work ethic and talent. I never saw green as truly 'talented.' he was good, but, I guess, let's grade trent green out on my scale...

let's even up the scale... every category is worth ten points.

1) green had A and B, but wasn't freakishly impressive in either. he didn't have to be, as he had weapons all around him. he had priest holmes and a brilliant offensive line. I never saw green as a guy with 'it' though. so, under perfect circumstances, a franchise qb gets 2 points for a and b each, and 6 for c. let's give trent 2/10 points for the first category.

2) his arm was 'good enough.' I guess I'd grade him out at a 6/10

3) to the best of my memory, green was never really in the franchise qb category as far as confidence went. he wasn't 'the unquestioned leader' of the team who had the ball in go-time. I'll give him a 5/10.

4) I never really heard any stories about how hard green worked. guess I'll give him a 6/10.

5) trent green was absolutely in the perfect system for his skill set. he had priest holmes, tony gonzalez, eddie kennison and the best offensive line in...a long time. give him a 10/10 on this one. this is where he gets major points, and for good reason. give him a defense, and maybe we have a lombardi or two...

so, add em' up. 29/50.

let's further muddle things up.

franchise qb: 45-50 (best of the best: they're in the top 10% of points available)

fringe franchise qb: 35-44
above average: 25-34
below average: 15-24
not worth mentioning: 5-14
bust: 0-4