Chiefs My Easy Chair "Evaluation" thus far... - Page 2

Sully · 04-26-2009, 05:14 PM

Reading up on the Patriots, they were one of 4 teams in the NFL to do all their own scouting, not using a service. They graded using their own criteria, and picked accordingly.
So, knowing that, I don't know why the first couple of picks surprised me so much. Pioli and Belichick didn't give a damn what the experts thought, they drafted guys that fit their very narrow profile. They wanted their guys, and got them wherever.

Now, clearly they should have traded down for a couple of these guys. But that assumes two things.
A) There was a partner to trade down with.
and
B) Their guy would still be available at that pick.

As Petro often says, it only takes one team to like a guy for him to be gone. And as evidenced by the Cleveland/Jets trade, trading down was either not an option, or not worth doing.

So nothing about this draft sparkles. Not like last year, where we were all euphoric after nearly every pick. However, I'm not saying we should all just blindly trust in Pioli, but we should realize he goes about this deal a lot differently that most other teams, and we should come to grips with that.

All that said, my evaluation really is no evaluation. The picks confuse me and baffle me. But I think this guy knows what he's doing. So a couple of years down the line, if these guys suck, and the team hasn't improved...I'll be right along with you dog-cussing this regime. I just can't bring myself to do it, yet. That's not a cry to not discuss opinions, just an attempt to bring us back to rationality with all this. We don't know...not one of us, whether this is going to be good or bad. We don't know how these guys will be used, and how they will be asked to contribute. We don't know if they are expected to be stars, or role players.

JMO

MoreLemonPledge · 04-26-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

we aren't winning crap with a top 20 QB, and he is certainly expected by Halioli to be better than that.....

Who was our last top 20 QB by any reasonable measure? Green? I know it wasn't Croyle, Huard, or Thigpen.

**the Talking Can** · 04-26-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I thought it was a pretty solid draft.

We have an entirely new starting DL now, and it's hard to complain about Magee and Jackson as bookends. They are the best pure 3-4 DEs in this draft, and "retraining" them to their position will be very minimal. I like Magee in particular, as I think he's a great character guy.

I really like Lawrence in the 6th and Williams in the 7th. I think both of those picks have the potential to develop and be major contributors. Lawrence in particular has a high ceiling. Washington was great value in the 4th round and it's hard to complain about Succop wrapping up the draft. He'll push Barth, and rightly so.

RT Colin Brown and TE Jake O'Connell were head-scratchers that made no ****ing sense.

this draft is hard to love....nothing sexy, bitterness that we passed on Sanchez, bitterness that we couldn't trade down, no OL and then a wtf? LT in the 5th, no Ellerbe (lol)....

i totally understand how someone could hate it

but stubborn facts remain...if Cassel is what Halioli believes, and the two 3-4 DEs turn into solid players, then it turns out to be a pretty good draft..even with a puzzling second day....

Mecca · 04-26-2009, 05:55 PM

It's pretty hard to take that we didn't get 1 quality offensive lineman out of this class.

keg in kc · 04-26-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

this draft is hard to love....nothing sexy, bitterness that we passed on Sanchez, bitterness that we couldn't trade down, no OL and then a wtf? LT in the 5th, no Ellerbe (lol)....

i totally understand how someone could hate it

but stubborn facts remain...if Cassel is what Halioli believes, and the two 3-4 DEs turn into solid players, then it turns out to be a pretty good draft..even with a puzzling second day....

We're used to our draft picks not panning-out, so I think we have this unnatural attraction toward value based on how they fall on pre-draft charts.

What it's ultimately going to be about is how they play. If this staff is any better than those in the past, maybe we'll change our mind about these players over the next 3 years.

Or maybe not.

58-4ever · 04-26-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

It's pretty hard to take that we didn't get 1 quality offensive lineman out of this class.

I agree completely. Hopefully, there is something in the works to bring some more guys in.

58-4ever · 04-26-2009, 05:59 PM

That being said, I'm ecstatic about a ton of young defensive lineman competing for spots. We need a push up front more than Jenna Jameson needs a cock.

Direckshun · 04-26-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

It's pretty hard to take that we didn't get 1 quality offensive lineman out of this class.

Jesus, Mecca. They took 3 C's in the 1st.

Reaches were abound EVERYWHERE for OL in this draft.

Rookie OL have the easiest transitions to the NFL. Unlike WRs, TEs, and DL, where we picked abundantly.

veist · 04-26-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

It's pretty hard to take that we didn't get 1 quality offensive lineman out of this class.

Its funny to hear you saying that, not that its a bad statement since obviously O-line was one of this draft's few strengths. Just you know normally a lot of us are all shaking our heads at people crying because we aren't drafting enough OL because its not good value where they want it and here it was good value seemingly.

Mecca · 04-26-2009, 06:03 PM

Several guys on the 2nd day become tremendous value, did you miss that?

FAX · 04-26-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

the draft will rise and fall on Cassel...

assume we got 3 starters with our first 3 picks, a QB and two players who were essential to our switch to a 3-4.....that would be an A draft...

now, assume Cassel flames out and is never a top 10 QB....we will have wasted probably 3 years and the success of our other picks won't seem to offer much consolation....grade D

there won't be any middle ground judgment on this

Good take, Mr. the Talking Can. As usual, you knock the point right out of the park and through the front windshield of somebody's BMW 320i causing hundreds of little tiny glass chunks to fall through the slots on the dashboard which will be a total bitch to get out of there.

If Cassel performs to expectations, Pioli can afford to concentrate on other areas and this draft (as all do) will be graded several years down the road as these players develop. If he doesn't? Well, we'll have much bigger problems.

I have a feeling that Pioli is looking a lot further down the road than this one, particular draft.

FAX

Mecca · 04-26-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veist

Its funny to hear you saying that, not that its a bad statement since obviously O-line was one of this draft's few strengths. Just you know normally a lot of us are all shaking our heads at people crying because we aren't drafting enough OL because its not good value where they want it and here it was good value seemingly.

There was a ton of outstanding 2nd day OL value this year.

beavis · 04-26-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully

All that said, my evaluation really is no evaluation. The picks confuse me and baffle me. But I think this guy knows what he's doing. So a couple of years down the line, if these guys suck, and the team hasn't improved...I'll be right along with you dog-cussing this regime. I just can't bring myself to do it, yet. That's not a cry to not discuss opinions, just an attempt to bring us back to rationality with all this. We don't know...not one of us, whether this is going to be good or bad. We don't know how these guys will be used, and how they will be asked to contribute. We don't know if they are expected to be stars, or role players.

This.

**the Talking Can** · 04-26-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

We're used to our draft picks not panning-out, so I think we have this unnatural attraction toward value based on how they fall on pre-draft charts.

What it's ultimately going to be about is how they play. If this staff is any better than those in the past, maybe we'll change our mind about these players over the next 3 years.

Or maybe not.

i think the draft is proof that Halioli saw the DL as a bigger problem than the OL....and, they just to bite the bullet and move towards a 3-4 all at once instead of dragging it out over a couple of years...hence the 1st and 3rd pick...

they signed vet LBs to carry us for a year and I'm sure that will be a priority next year along with OL....remember we will still have a lot of FA money to fix things with....

again, I get it that this draft is hate-able and I'm not telling anyone not to hate....but it would be false, imo, to suggest that they don't have a plan....one thing about this draft was the truth of their drafting guys who "love the game"....people wonder why we took magee over Jarret (Garret??) and I'd be they decided that magee has the better chance of being a good pro longer than the other guy.....

only time will tell of course....but there is a method here (at least in the first 3 picks...all guys with strong work ethics and dedication to the game), unlike Carl who truly threw darts at a board....

Direckshun · 04-26-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

I have a feeling that Pioli is looking a lot further down the road than this one, particular draft.

Hey, it's hard to complain about three really good picks next year. Probably another top ten, plus our own 2nd and the Falcons'.

Pioli's lack of movement this year exemplifies the fact that he is just trying to find able bodies to get this team off the ground this year. You only move around a lot when you are a lot more picky than the Chiefs are this year.

DL, WR, and TE take the most time to develop in the NFL (other than QB...). That he's used half of this year's picks on those positions says a lot. You can add linebackers and OL later on because their transition is loads easier.

veist · 04-26-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

There was a ton of outstanding 2nd day OL value this year.

I'm not disputing that, I said seemingly because they didn't take what I thought was good value OL picks either. They are paid to be better at this than me so maybe they knew something we didn't?

04-26-2009, 05:14 PM
Sully It Goes On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Lees Summit Casino cash: $10026331	My Easy Chair "Evaluation" thus far... Reading up on the Patriots, they were one of 4 teams in the NFL to do all their own scouting, not using a service. They graded using their own criteria, and picked accordingly. So, knowing that, I don't know why the first couple of picks surprised me so much. Pioli and Belichick didn't give a damn what the experts thought, they drafted guys that fit their very narrow profile. They wanted their guys, and got them wherever. Now, clearly they should have traded down for a couple of these guys. But that assumes two things. A) There was a partner to trade down with. and B) Their guy would still be available at that pick. As Petro often says, it only takes one team to like a guy for him to be gone. And as evidenced by the Cleveland/Jets trade, trading down was either not an option, or not worth doing. So nothing about this draft sparkles. Not like last year, where we were all euphoric after nearly every pick. However, I'm not saying we should all just blindly trust in Pioli, but we should realize he goes about this deal a lot differently that most other teams, and we should come to grips with that. All that said, my evaluation really is no evaluation. The picks confuse me and baffle me. But I think this guy knows what he's doing. So a couple of years down the line, if these guys suck, and the team hasn't improved...I'll be right along with you dog-cussing this regime. I just can't bring myself to do it, yet. That's not a cry to not discuss opinions, just an attempt to bring us back to rationality with all this. We don't know...not one of us, whether this is going to be good or bad. We don't know how these guys will be used, and how they will be asked to contribute. We don't know if they are expected to be stars, or role players. JMO
Posts: 18,295

04-26-2009, 05:55 PM	#18
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-782950	It's pretty hard to take that we didn't get 1 quality offensive lineman out of this class.
Posts: 115,406

04-26-2009, 05:59 PM	#21
58-4ever The Collective Unconscious Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The OP Casino cash: $9450422	That being said, I'm ecstatic about a ton of young defensive lineman competing for spots. We need a push up front more than Jenna Jameson needs a cock.
Posts: 10,436

04-26-2009, 06:03 PM	#24
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-782950	Several guys on the 2nd day become tremendous value, did you miss that?
Posts: 115,406