Chiefs Fixing this mess - Page 2

**Rain Man** · 10-12-2009, 12:56 AM

Let's put players into one of four buckets over the next five years:

Group 1. Young, ascending, and will be in or near their prime in five years

QB (Cassel)
WR (Bowe)
T (Albert)
K (Succop)
P (Colquitt)
CB (Flowers)
CB (Carr)
ILB (Mays)
DE (Jackson)
DE (Dorsey)

Group 2. At their peak now, but will be past their prime in five years.

WR (Bradley)
TE (Ryan)
FS (Page)
ILB (Williams)

Group 3. Young, ascending, but probably not a long term answer
FB (Cox)
T (O'Callaghan)
C (Niswanger)
KR/PR (Charles)
OLB (Hali)

Group 4. Past their peak now and will be retired in five years.
HB (Johnson)
G (Waters)
G (Goff)
SS (Brown)
OLB (Vrabel)
NT (Edwards)

You can agree or disagree with me about the buckets, but based on what I see right now, we need to replace/upgrade at least 6 positions (Group 4) just to break even. To improve, about 15 positions to be replaced (Groups 2, 3, and 4), and that's not assuming any injuries in Group 1. This means getting 3 quality starters every year, which may be possible, but would be difficult.

If we did that on a regular basis, this means that we'd have to have upgrades like this (roughly)

2010 - G, OLB, NT
2011 - G, HB, SS
2012 - C, T, WR
2013 - FB, OLB, KR/PR
2014 - FS, ILB, TE
...and assume that everyone in Group 1 continues to do well.

This seems like a tall order.

**Buehler445** · 10-12-2009, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Meh. Really, look at all the Steeler defenses of the last several years. They've swapped those ILBs out like interchangeable parts. I think we need to get an entirely new LB corps (save for Tamba, he can be a serviceable rotation player), but I wouldn't worry about spending really high picks on the inside backers. They are the RBs of the defense. You can find them all over the draft, and they can produce quite well.

But we need to TAKE them later in the draft and not fill them with UDFA and waiver wire picks.

T-post Tom · 10-12-2009, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

...
The other thing to consider is the importance of playmakers. One really good player can mask an inferior one. A guy like Jared Allen or Tony Gonzalez.

FYP

MichaelH · 10-12-2009, 05:29 AM

Fixing this mess has been an ongoing project for 20 years. Maybe they'll get it fixed when the Democrats get their healthcare biil passed.

**the Talking Can** · 10-12-2009, 06:51 AM

we have to augment the process with FA's...

if we don't throw some coin around next year for even some mid level free agents OL/LB/WR/RB then we have an even bigger problem: Clark Hunt...

nice to bring in a new staff and even a new contract for a QB, but we have to spend money, being 30 mill under the cap is no longer acceptable from a franchise that claims to want to win...

between a draft with 3 picks in the first two rounds and 30 mil in cap space we should expect 5 new quality starters on this team of either high potential (based on draft) or high production (based on FA)...

we'll know, imo, for sure if a) Halioli are in over their head or b) Clark is too tight to fund a winner or c) everyone is on the same page and willing to spend what it takes to win...

CHIEFS58 · 10-12-2009, 07:01 AM

i dont even know what to say. im in complete shock after yesterday. i certainly dont know what needs to be done, and im not sure anyone does. im just numb.

**ChiTown** · 10-12-2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Meh. Really, look at all the Steeler defenses of the last several years. They've swapped those ILBs out like interchangeable parts. I think we need to get an entirely new LB corps (save for Tamba, he can be a serviceable rotation player), but I wouldn't worry about spending really high picks on the inside backers. They are the RBs of the defense. You can find them all over the draft, and they can produce quite well.

+1

10-12-2009, 07:38 AM

You know you're scraping the bottom of the talent barrel when your K and P are invoked on the future of the franchise list.

Extra Point · 10-12-2009, 08:32 AM

How about fixing the defensive hole in the 5-15 yds middle past the LOS?

10-12-2009, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Extra Point

How about fixing the defensive hole in the 5-15 yds middle past the LOS?

The real answer lies in putting your fastest and most talented linebacker on the bench. I know it seems counter-productive but it seems to be working really well.

CoMoChief · 10-12-2009, 08:37 AM

Hali, Charles, and Page should be in that first group.

CoMoChief · 10-12-2009, 08:43 AM

Here's what I would keep. And release everyone else. Cut all the dead weight.

QB (Cassel)
WR (Bowe)
LT (Albert)
LG (Waters)
K (Succop)
P (Colquitt)
CB (Flowers)
CB (Carr)
ILB (Mays)
DE (Jackson)
DE (Dorsey)
OLB (Hali)
ILB (D.Johnson)
FS (Page)
HB/KR (Charles)
HB (Savage)
CB (Leggett)
FS (Morgan)
CB (Washington)
QB (Croyle)
WR (Wade)
WR (Bradley)
NT (Tyler)
DE (McGee)
ILB (Belcher)

HC_Chief · 10-12-2009, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phobia

The real answer lies in putting your fastest and most talented linebacker on the bench. I know it seems counter-productive but it seems to be working really well.

I don't get people's facination with DJ. He has NEVER been a productive player in KC. As a matter of fact, he is worthy of the BUST monicre IMO.

He was a good/great college LB but has been nothing but disappointing in the pros.

TEX · 10-12-2009, 09:06 AM

The place to start to fix siad mess is the OL. That should have been where they started this season. Even with the new regime, we're behind in the process as usual...

HC_Chief · 10-12-2009, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

The place to start to fix siad mess is the OL. That should have been where they started this season. Even with the new regime, we're behind in the process as usual...

THIS.
We should have drafted OL heavy and also brought in a bunch of vets. Anyone who watched any tape of the past several seasons would have seen the glaring weakness there.

After that, we need LBs, a NT, and WIDE RECEIVERS (I like Wade and Bowe, the rest can be and should be replaced).

CoMoChief · 10-12-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HC_Chief

I don't get people's facination with DJ. He has NEVER been a productive player in KC. As a matter of fact, he is worthy of the BUST monicre IMO.

He was a good/great college LB but has been nothing but disappointing in the pros.

Is DJ Ray Lewis.....no. But he's clearly the best or 2nd best defender this team has besides Flowers. This team has lack of talent for sure. But not playing DJ is just a horrible move by Haley.

10-12-2009, 12:56 AM
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $2768491 VARSITY	Fixing this mess Let's put players into one of four buckets over the next five years: Group 1. Young, ascending, and will be in or near their prime in five years QB (Cassel) WR (Bowe) T (Albert) K (Succop) P (Colquitt) CB (Flowers) CB (Carr) ILB (Mays) DE (Jackson) DE (Dorsey) Group 2. At their peak now, but will be past their prime in five years. WR (Bradley) TE (Ryan) FS (Page) ILB (Williams) Group 3. Young, ascending, but probably not a long term answer FB (Cox) T (O'Callaghan) C (Niswanger) KR/PR (Charles) OLB (Hali) Group 4. Past their peak now and will be retired in five years. HB (Johnson) G (Waters) G (Goff) SS (Brown) OLB (Vrabel) NT (Edwards) You can agree or disagree with me about the buckets, but based on what I see right now, we need to replace/upgrade at least 6 positions (Group 4) just to break even. To improve, about 15 positions to be replaced (Groups 2, 3, and 4), and that's not assuming any injuries in Group 1. This means getting 3 quality starters every year, which may be possible, but would be difficult. If we did that on a regular basis, this means that we'd have to have upgrades like this (roughly) 2010 - G, OLB, NT 2011 - G, HB, SS 2012 - C, T, WR 2013 - FB, OLB, KR/PR 2014 - FS, ILB, TE ...and assume that everyone in Group 1 continues to do well. This seems like a tall order.
Posts: 141,868

10-12-2009, 05:29 AM	#18
MichaelH Go Chiefs! Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gastonia, North Carolina Casino cash: $9282006	Fixing this mess has been an ongoing project for 20 years. Maybe they'll get it fixed when the Democrats get their healthcare biil passed.
Posts: 3,187

10-12-2009, 06:51 AM	#19
the Talking Can Supporter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: street Casino cash: $10022208	we have to augment the process with FA's... if we don't throw some coin around next year for even some mid level free agents OL/LB/WR/RB then we have an even bigger problem: Clark Hunt... nice to bring in a new staff and even a new contract for a QB, but we have to spend money, being 30 mill under the cap is no longer acceptable from a franchise that claims to want to win... between a draft with 3 picks in the first two rounds and 30 mil in cap space we should expect 5 new quality starters on this team of either high potential (based on draft) or high production (based on FA)... we'll know, imo, for sure if a) Halioli are in over their head or b) Clark is too tight to fund a winner or c) everyone is on the same page and willing to spend what it takes to win... __________________ Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"
Posts: 51,585

10-12-2009, 07:01 AM	#20
CHIEFS58 Smoke a turd. Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Western North Carolina Casino cash: $10004930	i dont even know what to say. im in complete shock after yesterday. i certainly dont know what needs to be done, and im not sure anyone does. im just numb.
Posts: 2,217

10-12-2009, 07:38 AM	#22
Phobia Guest Casino cash: $	You know you're scraping the bottom of the talent barrel when your K and P are invoked on the future of the franchise list.
Posts: n/a

10-12-2009, 08:32 AM	#23
Extra Point MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Prairie Village, KS Casino cash: $10004900	How about fixing the defensive hole in the 5-15 yds middle past the LOS? __________________ "Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits." --Satchel Paige
Posts: 7,845

10-12-2009, 08:37 AM	#25
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $7972254	Hali, Charles, and Page should be in that first group.
Posts: 39,174

10-12-2009, 08:43 AM	#26
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $7972254	Here's what I would keep. And release everyone else. Cut all the dead weight. QB (Cassel) WR (Bowe) LT (Albert) LG (Waters) K (Succop) P (Colquitt) CB (Flowers) CB (Carr) ILB (Mays) DE (Jackson) DE (Dorsey) OLB (Hali) ILB (D.Johnson) FS (Page) HB/KR (Charles) HB (Savage) CB (Leggett) FS (Morgan) CB (Washington) QB (Croyle) WR (Wade) WR (Bradley) NT (Tyler) DE (McGee) ILB (Belcher)
Posts: 39,174

10-12-2009, 09:06 AM	#28
TEX Out Gunning CP's Fandom Police Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Laguna Beach, CA Casino cash: $1843127	The place to start to fix siad mess is the OL. That should have been where they started this season. Even with the new regime, we're behind in the process as usual... __________________ "The CHIEFS, HAVE THEIR DYNASTY!"
Posts: 34,799