Chiefs Teicher: Waters thinks Chiefs don’t need offensive-line upgrade - Page 2

**Tribal Warfare** · 01-04-2010, 11:49 PM

Waters thinks Chiefs don’t need offensive-line upgrade
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

To Brian Waters, the numbers speak with clarity. During the season’s final few games, the Chiefs became one of the league’s most explosive running teams while significantly reducing the number of times quarterback Matt Cassel was sacked.

There can be no better endorsement of the Chiefs’ much-maligned offensive line.

“They say stuff rolls downhill, and we’re at the bottom,” Waters said Monday as the Chiefs, who finished their 4-12 season with a 44-24 win over the Broncos on Sunday in Denver, cleared out their lockers and scattered for winter. “We take that burden because we’re big boys.

“But the last two years, I don’t think that some of my offensive linemates have been judged properly. I feel a lot of eyes that have been judging some of my teammates are unqualified eyes. There are a lot of people basing their opinions off what they know, and a lot of people don’t know football.

“In our position, everything is all about what other guys do. Everything is about how many times the quarterback got hit or it’s all about how many rushing yards we had. We’re pretty much (tied) to the numbers.”

His comments suggest that given Kansas City’s recent offensive improvements, Waters, a four-time Pro Bowl guard, believes the Chiefs don’t need to make upgrading their offensive line an offseason priority.

During the season’s final eight games, running back Jamaal Charles trailed only Tennessee’s Chris Johnson in rushing yards with 968. Charles averaged 6 yards per carry in that time.

Chiefs quarterbacks were sacked 37 times in the first 10 games, but Cassel went down only eight times in the final six. In Denver, he wasn’t sacked for the first time all season.

Some of the improvement has to do with changes on the line. On the right side, Ryan O’Callaghan replaced Ikechuku Ndukwe at tackle and Wade Smith replaced Mike Goff at guard.

The line also had time to adjust after the Chiefs abruptly changed their offense during the preseason when they fired coordinator Chan Gailey.

“That affected us greatly,” Waters said. “We’d be lying to ourselves to not think that the change in offense two weeks before the regular season started didn’t harm what we had already kind of got going. But that’s the head coach’s prerogative to make that type of change.”

The biggest reason for the line’s improved play was Charles, who is smaller and quicker than Johnson and doesn’t need as much space to be an effective runner.

“What we were trying to do offensively wasn’t to the strength of Larry,” Waters said. “We were trying to be a little more open-space, a little bit more no-huddle, a little bit more fast-hitting type of offense. We know Larry, and when he was in his greatest time, he was more of a pounder.

“We finally got comfortable in what we were trying to do. The idea of what we were trying to do from game to game has changed through the course of the year and we finally settled on who we are and we weren’t going to change that.

“Talentwise, I don’t think I’ve ever played with anybody as talented as (Charles) is, with the explosive ability he has. He has the ability to make a 5-yard run a 50-yard run just like that.

“He has the ability to make us look better.”

Monday’s interview ended Waters’ seasonlong silence. Waters asked to be traded last winter shortly after Todd Haley was hired as the Chiefs’ head coach.

Waters said his silence shouldn’t be interpreted that he was unhappy playing for the Chiefs.

“With the stuff I came back here with during the offseason, I just wanted to kind of stand out of the way and just do my job and allow this whole situation to show itself,” Waters said. “I didn’t want to get in the way. I know people are always trying to make it seem like you feel this way or you feel that way. I just wanted people to see this whole program for themselves. I didn’t want to be a distraction.

“It was just a good year for me to focus on my own job.”

Waters started 15 games this season, missing last month’s Cleveland game because of a sore hamstring. That ended a streak of 51 consecutive starts.

He also missed out on the Pro Bowl after playing in Hawaii the previous year,

“I think I had a solid year,” Waters said. “I don’t think I performed any worse than I’ve performed over the last few years.

“I feel I have plenty left in the tank.”

Saccopoo · 01-05-2010, 03:22 AM

There is validity in drafting a LT, moving Albert to his college LG position, moving Waters to RG and drafting a high quality center (O'Dowd, Wisneiwski - if they come out; Tennant, Olsen (who is a better center than he was a guard), or underrated Estes of Hawaii).

I'd be a little pissed if the Chiefs pick a guard from Idaho with their top 2nd rounder though.

T-post Tom · 01-05-2010, 04:11 AM

that rabbit is crazy

TigerPig · 01-05-2010, 04:17 AM

I don't think people get how much a RT would help us out, especially with someone who likes to cut to the outside a lot. Either that or a Guard with good pulling power.

Fine isn't good enough for a line in the NFL, IMO

MichaelH · 01-05-2010, 04:22 AM

If the offensive line is fine then we need a new QB.

**BossChief** · 01-05-2010, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

There is validity in drafting a LT, moving Albert to his college LG position, moving Waters to RG and drafting a high quality center (O'Dowd, Wisneiwski - if they come out; Tennant, Olsen (who is a better center than he was a guard), or underrated Estes of Hawaii).

I'd be a little pissed if the Chiefs pick a guard from Idaho with their top 2nd rounder though.

who gives a **** where he is from. Have you seen him play? I would sacrifice a later round pick to move up a few spots if he is still there at 29 or so.

He might be the quickest pulling guard I have come out. Perfect attitude to be a leader and is known as a hard worker and very high charachter guy.

I honestly see him as a probowl quality player and might make a couple all pro teams if he goes into the right situation.

The starting guards from the ALL PRO TEAM are from Bloomberg and fresno state.

kcxiv · 01-05-2010, 04:34 AM

We need a Tight End, and Defense defense defense.

I would have said QB too, but thats not going to change.

Saccopoo · 01-05-2010, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

who gives a **** where he is from. Have you seen him play? I would sacrifice a later round pick to move up a few spots if he is still there at 29 or so.

He might be the quickest pulling guard I have come out. Perfect attitude to be a leader and is known as a hard worker and very high charachter guy.

I honestly see him as a probowl quality player and might make a couple all pro teams if he goes into the right situation.

The starting guards from the ALL PRO TEAM are from Bloomberg and fresno state.

To a certain degree, it does matter where he went to school. The problem is that he plays at Idaho. The level of competition that he faces is substantially less that what you are going to face in a BCS level conference on a weekly basis. Perhaps he is that level of player, but he plays at a position that isn't as necessarily valued in terms of the draft as other positions and it would be an expensive proposition to use a pick on a guard at that point in the draft for a team like the Chiefs who need major talent increases at a number of more impactful positions than at guard.

And while Mike might be the best pure guard in the draft, he's still a pure guard. Not a tackle or center, but a guard. And he'd have to be damn near guaranteed to be a Pro Bowler at that position in order to justify that high of a pick for a pure guard.

I just don't see the Chiefs pulling the trigger on him. I could see a team use a late first rounder on him as a luxury type pick, which is what the best teams do and why they remain on top - because they can take the best player at a secondary position as they already have quality players at the key positions. Perhaps the Chiefs go with a BPA approach and draft guys like Berry and Iupati.

**BossChief** · 01-05-2010, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

To a certain degree, it does matter where he went to school. The problem is that he plays at Idaho. The level of competition that he faces is substantially less that what you are going to face in a BCS level conference on a weekly basis. Perhaps he is that level of player, but he plays at a position that isn't as necessarily valued in terms of the draft as other positions and it would be an expensive proposition to use a pick on a guard at that point in the draft for a team like the Chiefs who need major talent increases at a number of more impactful positions than at guard.

And while Mike might be the best pure guard in the draft, he's still a pure guard. Not a tackle or center, but a guard. And he'd have to be damn near guaranteed to be a Pro Bowler at that position in order to justify that high of a pick for a pure guard.

I just don't see the Chiefs pulling the trigger on him. I could see a team use a late first rounder on him as a luxury type pick, which is what the best teams do and why they remain on top - because they can take the best player at a secondary position as they already have quality players at the key positions. Perhaps the Chiefs go with a BPA approach and draft guys like Berry and Iupati.

Logan Mankins went to Fresno State and went at #15 iirc

Steve Hutchinson went #17

The Eagles took Shawn Andrews at #15

Guards arent a highly valued position, but a guard like Iutapi will be overdrafted because of how much he brings to the table. Elite guards are taken earlier than normal and Iutapi surely fits that bill.

Im not saying AT ALL to take him at 5. Im saying that if he fell to 25 or later, I would be burning up the phone lines to try and work a deal to trade up to get him.

I dont know why you think he is a pure guard either, his frame could play tackle and I have actually read that he can play any oline position except center.

Blick · 01-05-2010, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Logan Mankins went to Fresno State and went at #15 iirc

Steve Hutchinson went #17

The Eagles took Shawn Andrews at #15

Guards arent a highly valued position, but a guard like Iutapi will be overdrafted because of how much he brings to the table. Elite guards are taken earlier than normal and Iutapi surely fits that bill.

Im not saying AT ALL to take him at 5. Im saying that if he fell to 25 or later, I would be burning up the phone lines to try and work a deal to trade up to get him.

I dont know why you think he is a pure guard either, his frame could play tackle and I have actually read that he can play any oline position except center.

Mankins went in the last pick in the first round at #32. Shawn Andrews went at #16 and edit: was a tackle coming out of Arkansas if I remember right. You had Hutch right though.

**BossChief** · 01-05-2010, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blick

Mankins went in the last pick in the first round at #32. Shawn Andrews went at #16 and edit: was a tackle coming out of Arkansas if I remember right. You had Hutch right though.

I guess iirc=not very accurate for details...to much beer and resin between then and now

The point still stands though. If he were available after #25 I would be burning up the phone lines.

Blick · 01-05-2010, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

I guess iirc=not very accurate for details...to much beer and resin between then and now

The point still stands though. If he were available after #25 I would be burning up the phone lines.

Resin...nice. Anyway, still after 25, no ****ing way. The Chiefs shouldn't be taking a guard in the top 64. They need impact players.

Blick · 01-05-2010, 06:42 AM

Also, LOL at Dane McCloud: Offensive Line Analyst. Waters did a fine job in the 2nd half of the year, we don't have a replacement, and a rookie wouldn't be better.

Hammock Parties · 01-05-2010, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blick

Waters did a fine job in the 2nd half of the year

He was terrible early in the year and he's going to be 33 next season. His physical skills are eroding fast. He'll probably decline even more.

Icon · 01-05-2010, 07:18 AM

I thought the OL play improved significantly the last 6 or so games. The improved lined play coincided with Wade Smith starting and Mike Goff getting injured. Also, Brandon Albert played quite poorly the first half of the season but I thought he played really well the last half of the season. Much has been said about his weight loss but we don't really know how or if that affected his play. Installing a new blocking scheme so late (after Chan Gailey was fired) didn't help either.

That said I disagree with Waters. We do need to improve the line through the draft. I hope we spend one of our top 4 or 5 draft picks on a OL. Carl Peterson largely ignored the OL in the past 10 years and it shows. I for don't think we should be using a high draft pick on a new LT. I think Albert's play during the past 6 - 8 games warrants another year at LT.

old_geezer · 01-05-2010, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

He was terrible early in the year and he's going to be 33 next season. His physical skills are eroding fast. He'll probably decline even more.

Not to be argumentive, but isn't it possible that Water's poor play early in the year was a result of his negitive attitude after his confrontation with Haley/Pioli ? If so, then he managed to straighten himself out and he might be servicable for 1-2 more years while we work on other areas that need immediate help.

01-04-2010, 11:49 PM
Tribal Warfare The Boom Boom Room Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $542813	Teicher: Waters thinks Chiefs don’t need offensive-line upgrade Waters thinks Chiefs don’t need offensive-line upgrade By ADAM TEICHER The Kansas City Star To Brian Waters, the numbers speak with clarity. During the season’s final few games, the Chiefs became one of the league’s most explosive running teams while significantly reducing the number of times quarterback Matt Cassel was sacked. There can be no better endorsement of the Chiefs’ much-maligned offensive line. “They say stuff rolls downhill, and we’re at the bottom,” Waters said Monday as the Chiefs, who finished their 4-12 season with a 44-24 win over the Broncos on Sunday in Denver, cleared out their lockers and scattered for winter. “We take that burden because we’re big boys. “But the last two years, I don’t think that some of my offensive linemates have been judged properly. I feel a lot of eyes that have been judging some of my teammates are unqualified eyes. There are a lot of people basing their opinions off what they know, and a lot of people don’t know football. “In our position, everything is all about what other guys do. Everything is about how many times the quarterback got hit or it’s all about how many rushing yards we had. We’re pretty much (tied) to the numbers.” His comments suggest that given Kansas City’s recent offensive improvements, Waters, a four-time Pro Bowl guard, believes the Chiefs don’t need to make upgrading their offensive line an offseason priority. During the season’s final eight games, running back Jamaal Charles trailed only Tennessee’s Chris Johnson in rushing yards with 968. Charles averaged 6 yards per carry in that time. Chiefs quarterbacks were sacked 37 times in the first 10 games, but Cassel went down only eight times in the final six. In Denver, he wasn’t sacked for the first time all season. Some of the improvement has to do with changes on the line. On the right side, Ryan O’Callaghan replaced Ikechuku Ndukwe at tackle and Wade Smith replaced Mike Goff at guard. The line also had time to adjust after the Chiefs abruptly changed their offense during the preseason when they fired coordinator Chan Gailey. “That affected us greatly,” Waters said. “We’d be lying to ourselves to not think that the change in offense two weeks before the regular season started didn’t harm what we had already kind of got going. But that’s the head coach’s prerogative to make that type of change.” The biggest reason for the line’s improved play was Charles, who is smaller and quicker than Johnson and doesn’t need as much space to be an effective runner. “What we were trying to do offensively wasn’t to the strength of Larry,” Waters said. “We were trying to be a little more open-space, a little bit more no-huddle, a little bit more fast-hitting type of offense. We know Larry, and when he was in his greatest time, he was more of a pounder. “We finally got comfortable in what we were trying to do. The idea of what we were trying to do from game to game has changed through the course of the year and we finally settled on who we are and we weren’t going to change that. “Talentwise, I don’t think I’ve ever played with anybody as talented as (Charles) is, with the explosive ability he has. He has the ability to make a 5-yard run a 50-yard run just like that. “He has the ability to make us look better.” Monday’s interview ended Waters’ seasonlong silence. Waters asked to be traded last winter shortly after Todd Haley was hired as the Chiefs’ head coach. Waters said his silence shouldn’t be interpreted that he was unhappy playing for the Chiefs. “With the stuff I came back here with during the offseason, I just wanted to kind of stand out of the way and just do my job and allow this whole situation to show itself,” Waters said. “I didn’t want to get in the way. I know people are always trying to make it seem like you feel this way or you feel that way. I just wanted people to see this whole program for themselves. I didn’t want to be a distraction. “It was just a good year for me to focus on my own job.” Waters started 15 games this season, missing last month’s Cleveland game because of a sore hamstring. That ended a streak of 51 consecutive starts. He also missed out on the Pro Bowl after playing in Hawaii the previous year, “I think I had a solid year,” Waters said. “I don’t think I performed any worse than I’ve performed over the last few years. “I feel I have plenty left in the tank.”
Posts: 42,168

01-05-2010, 04:11 AM	#17
T-post Tom Threepeat! Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Milk/Honey/Gazland Casino cash: $4357293	that rabbit is crazy __________________ You seem nice!
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01-05-2010, 04:17 AM	#18
TigerPig One with the Force Join Date: Jan 2010 Casino cash: $10004900	I don't think people get how much a RT would help us out, especially with someone who likes to cut to the outside a lot. Either that or a Guard with good pulling power. Fine isn't good enough for a line in the NFL, IMO
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01-05-2010, 04:22 AM	#19
MichaelH Go Chiefs! Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gastonia, North Carolina Casino cash: $9292006	If the offensive line is fine then we need a new QB.
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01-05-2010, 04:34 AM	#21
kcxiv In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Valley, Cali Casino cash: $8807996	We need a Tight End, and Defense defense defense. I would have said QB too, but thats not going to change.
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01-05-2010, 03:22 AM	#16
Saccopoo Kindness in words... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zion Casino cash: $10025483	There is validity in drafting a LT, moving Albert to his college LG position, moving Waters to RG and drafting a high quality center (O'Dowd, Wisneiwski - if they come out; Tennant, Olsen (who is a better center than he was a guard), or underrated Estes of Hawaii). I'd be a little pissed if the Chiefs pick a guard from Idaho with their top 2nd rounder though.
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01-05-2010, 06:42 AM	#27
Blick Veteran Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: South KC Casino cash: $10004900	Also, LOL at Dane McCloud: Offensive Line Analyst. Waters did a fine job in the 2nd half of the year, we don't have a replacement, and a rookie wouldn't be better.
Posts: 1,209

01-05-2010, 07:18 AM	#29
Icon Starter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: flyover country Casino cash: $1135100	I thought the OL play improved significantly the last 6 or so games. The improved lined play coincided with Wade Smith starting and Mike Goff getting injured. Also, Brandon Albert played quite poorly the first half of the season but I thought he played really well the last half of the season. Much has been said about his weight loss but we don't really know how or if that affected his play. Installing a new blocking scheme so late (after Chan Gailey was fired) didn't help either. That said I disagree with Waters. We do need to improve the line through the draft. I hope we spend one of our top 4 or 5 draft picks on a OL. Carl Peterson largely ignored the OL in the past 10 years and it shows. I for don't think we should be using a high draft pick on a new LT. I think Albert's play during the past 6 - 8 games warrants another year at LT.
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