Chiefs So are Dorsey/Veach still just puppets to Andy when it comes to personnel? - Page 2

**RealSNR** · 05-01-2021, 08:15 AM

People said that about Dorsey. And they DEFINITELY said that about Veach when he first got hired, given he was young and a former protege of Reid, and Dorsey had just gotten fired.

The past few offseason strategies and types of players we acquire/sign has been so remarkably different under Veach that I don't know how anybody with a real brain can convince themselves that Andy Reid is actually the one who has final say or even says, "Here, go find me these players." Yes, they collaborate, but that's what ALL NFL coach/GM relationships should do when it comes to personnel acquisition and drafting.

When has Andy as a GM in Philly EVER so aggressively completely ****ing renovated entire position groups in single offseasons? We've seen Veach do this shit twice now, once with the defense and now with the OL. When has Andy "in charge" ever done that shit?

It's what I tried to tell some of you. The Chiefs said it's a collaboration, but that the GM has the "final say." They were pretty clear about that. The draft strategy is Veach's. The draft scouting is Veach's. The free agency strategy is Veach's. The team is Veach's pretty squarely Veach's to scout and construct, and Andy's to coach.

crayzkirk · 05-03-2021, 02:56 AM

Behind every great QB is a coach ready to be given the credit...

burt · 05-03-2021, 08:46 AM

In Veach we trust.

Rasputin · 05-03-2021, 11:23 AM

Veach goes to the grocery store and Andy cooks the ingredients for a gourmet meal.

htismaqe · 05-03-2021, 11:26 AM

Andy has input. There is no way a guy like Veach, with his age and experience, doesn't lean on a guy like Andy Reid, with his age and experience. Probably A LOT actually.

Does that mean Veach is a puppet? I highly doubt it since you look at our drafts under Veach and Dorsey and see some pretty interesting differences.

But I do think Andy has say. Quite a bit actually, maybe not in terms of power structure but in terms of trust.

R Clark · 05-03-2021, 12:55 PM

Whatever the situation is it’s damn sure working

**DaFace** · 05-03-2021, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Andy has input. There is no way a guy like Veach, with his age and experience, doesn't lean on a guy like Andy Reid, with his age and experience. Probably A LOT actually.

Does that mean Veach is a puppet? I highly doubt it since you look at our drafts under Veach and Dorsey and see some pretty interesting differences.

But I do think Andy has say. Quite a bit actually, maybe not in terms of power structure but in terms of trust.

I think of it as Veach being an extension of Andy's vision. Andy identifies his priorities and preferences. Veach goes out and makes it happen.

RunKC · 05-03-2021, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Andy has input. There is no way a guy like Veach, with his age and experience, doesn't lean on a guy like Andy Reid, with his age and experience. Probably A LOT actually.

Does that mean Veach is a puppet? I highly doubt it since you look at our drafts under Veach and Dorsey and see some pretty interesting differences.

But I do think Andy has say. Quite a bit actually, maybe not in terms of power structure but in terms of trust.

Absolutely. Ryne Nutt has been a key scout for us for as long as Andy has been here. He’s helped this franchise draft some of our best players. No way did Andy not have input in him hired, especially since that was pre-Veach era. I think the same is applicable to Mike Borgonzi.

Brandt Tillis is one I’m not familiar with in terms of timeline. But he has been instrumental in our good contracts with Veach, especially Patrick’s contract

Dunerdr · 05-03-2021, 01:37 PM

I often wonder about the 2018 draft. Was there issues because of the veach take over? Maybe his interpretation of what scouts who were largely loyal to dorsey was off? Maybe the scouts knew most of them wouldnt be there much longer and didnt feel like they had to pound the table for their guy? Or maybe a rookie GM just shit his pants.

**RealSNR** · 05-03-2021, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunerdr

I often wonder about the 2018 draft. Was there issues because of the veach take over? Maybe his interpretation of what scouts who were largely loyal to dorsey was off? Maybe the scouts knew most of them wouldnt be there much longer and didnt feel like they had to pound the table for their guy? Or maybe a rookie GM just shit his pants.

Or it could just be bad luck.

We were still overcoming some difficulties from Dorsey's tenure with the team. Such as not having any pass rushers and relying on Tamba Hali to come back at an inflated price. And then when we cut him, we still hadn't filled the position longterm. So Veach had some pressure to fill that DE/OLB spot opposite Houston in addition to patching up a few other areas. Hard to do that when you don't have a first round pick.

As it is, we still got Derrick Nnadi out of that draft. That's a **** ton better than Pioli's first year, where the only damn thing we got was a ****ing 7th round kicker. No, I'm not counting Tyson Jackson. You don't draft Tyson Jackson with the 3rd ****ing overall pick. He should absolutely be considered a bust for what he never did for us. Veach had far less to work with and still came out ahead.

KChiefs1 · 05-03-2021, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover

When Andy is in charge we have guys like Jason Avant and Jeremy Maclin

Absolutely!

KChiefs1 · 05-03-2021, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Andy creates the recipe and Veach goes to the grocery store for the ingredients and Andy cooks the ingredients for a gourmet meal.

FYP

KChiefs1 · 05-03-2021, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crayzkirk

Behind every great QB is a coach ready to be given the credit...

Deberg_1990 · 05-03-2021, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunerdr

I often wonder about the 2018 draft. Was there issues because of the veach take over? Maybe his interpretation of what scouts who were largely loyal to dorsey was off? Maybe the scouts knew most of them wouldnt be there much longer and didnt feel like they had to pound the table for their guy? Or maybe a rookie GM just shit his pants.

It just wasn’t a very deep draft after about 40 picks.

Orlando Brown Jr is probably the best overall player picked from the 3-7 rounds.

rtmike · 05-03-2021, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cave Johnson

I think it seems clear you have to throw out 2018 as an outlier in Veach’s track record.

He’s putting together a upper echelon drafting resume.

It seems this administration is never content with half ass.
They attack any perceived weakness. It just feels like they're more in touch with the fans, players.
We don't have to say at the end of every year now...they'll fix it this offseason only to watch one or two players +/-.
So nice to be Chiefs fan after all these years, lol.

RustShack · 05-03-2021, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE!

It’s insane tbh and I love it. Last year Mahomes wanted CEH and Veach got him. This year Orlando brown told them to get Humphrey and they did.

To be fair this is probably more common than you think with a lot of guys pushing for someone who never ends up making it here.

05-01-2021, 08:15 AM
RealSNR Special Teams ACE!!! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Where the hell is SNR Casino cash: $1860208	So are Dorsey/Veach still just puppets to Andy when it comes to personnel? People said that about Dorsey. And they DEFINITELY said that about Veach when he first got hired, given he was young and a former protege of Reid, and Dorsey had just gotten fired. The past few offseason strategies and types of players we acquire/sign has been so remarkably different under Veach that I don't know how anybody with a real brain can convince themselves that Andy Reid is actually the one who has final say or even says, "Here, go find me these players." Yes, they collaborate, but that's what ALL NFL coach/GM relationships should do when it comes to personnel acquisition and drafting. When has Andy as a GM in Philly EVER so aggressively completely ****ing renovated entire position groups in single offseasons? We've seen Veach do this shit twice now, once with the defense and now with the OL. When has Andy "in charge" ever done that shit? It's what I tried to tell some of you. The Chiefs said it's a collaboration, but that the GM has the "final say." They were pretty clear about that. The draft strategy is Veach's. The draft scouting is Veach's. The free agency strategy is Veach's. The team is Veach's pretty squarely Veach's to scout and construct, and Andy's to coach.
Posts: 90,833

05-03-2021, 02:56 AM	#16
crayzkirk Veteran Join Date: Nov 2016 Casino cash: $3440000	Behind every great QB is a coach ready to be given the credit...
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05-03-2021, 11:23 AM	#18
Rasputin Tip of the hat LIV Champs Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ks Casino cash: $3055421	Veach goes to the grocery store and Andy cooks the ingredients for a gourmet meal. __________________ A Brave Man Once Requested Me To Answer Questions That Are Key 'Is It To Be Or Not To Be' And I Replied Oh Why Ask Me
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05-03-2021, 11:26 AM	#19
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $10269900	Andy has input. There is no way a guy like Veach, with his age and experience, doesn't lean on a guy like Andy Reid, with his age and experience. Probably A LOT actually. Does that mean Veach is a puppet? I highly doubt it since you look at our drafts under Veach and Dorsey and see some pretty interesting differences. But I do think Andy has say. Quite a bit actually, maybe not in terms of power structure but in terms of trust.
Posts: 100,022

05-03-2021, 12:55 PM	#20
R Clark Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Casino cash: $4804900	Whatever the situation is it’s damn sure working
Posts: 2,603

05-03-2021, 01:37 PM	#23
Dunerdr MVP Join Date: Oct 2012 Casino cash: $1939677	I often wonder about the 2018 draft. Was there issues because of the veach take over? Maybe his interpretation of what scouts who were largely loyal to dorsey was off? Maybe the scouts knew most of them wouldnt be there much longer and didnt feel like they had to pound the table for their guy? Or maybe a rookie GM just shit his pants. __________________ Adopt-A-Chief- Rachel Santschi
Posts: 11,042