Some rules and background. - Page 2

**Rain Man** · 01-21-2004, 02:37 PM

I'll post some random information stuff as we go along, just so people have an understanding of what's going on. Check back on this periodically, as I'll add to it over time.

Let's start with what will be coming at you:

There are three types of German planes that will attack you: Focke-Wolfe 190s (tough and hard to kill), Messerchmidt 109s (baseline enemy fighter), and Messerschmidt 110s (not very tough - usually approach from the back to get better shots). They all have the same ability to fire at you; the only difference between them is your ability to damage them.

When an enemy plane comes in, the first thing that can happen is that your own fighter escorts can drive it away. This is good, because you don't have to shoot and you don't get fired upon.

However, your fighter escorts have a limited range, and on medium to long missions you won't have them around. Also, your fighter coverage is random. Sometimes they'll protect you like heck and other times they don't protect you at all since they're either lost or protecting other B-17s.

If an enemy plane gets through the fighter escort (or if there isn't an escort), your plane will make defensive fire first. It's possible that you can kill the German before he gets close enough to take you out.

If the enemy gets through your defensive fire and misses you, it goes away.

If the enemy hits you, he'll come around and try to make another pass. If you have escort fighters they may be able to drive him off, but often they can't stop it. You once again get defensive fire, and if he survives he'll take another shot.

If he hits you a second time, he'll make a third pass and the process will repeat itself. No plane will make more than three passes, though.

If you're out of formation, any enemy that finds you will always take three passes at you. It's really bad to be out of formation, for two reasons: first, you don't have other B-17s to distract the fighters, and second, the only reason that you're ever out of formation is if the airplane is damaged enough that you couldn't stay in formation, so you're already in trouble.

When fighters come in, they'll be announced in clock terms. 12 o'clock means they're coming straight in on your nose, and 6 o'clock means they're coming straight in on your tail. 3 o'clock is right wing, 9 o'clock is left wing, and they'll also come in at 1:30 and 10:30 slightly off your nose. A majority of fighters come in from the nose due to the defensive fire capabilities of the B-17. They're less likely to hit you coming in from the nose, but you're also less likely to hit them. Fighters will come in low (under the plane), even (at the B-17's altitude), or high (above the plane). On rare occasions, they'll dive straight down at you or climb straight up at you.

At the target zone, or at low altitudes if you're damaged, you'll also be exposed to flak. Flak is anti-aircraft fire that can be quite nasty. If you get hit by flak in the target zone it'll also automatically throw off your bombing run, making it very hard to do damage to the target. You have no defense against flak other than hoping it'll miss and absorbing the damage if it doesn't.

Your guns, starting with the front of the aircraft:

1. The nose gun is a .50 cal gun located right at the front of the plane. The bombardier and navigator share this gun, depending on who's busy with either their main job or firing a cheek gun. The nose gun essentially shoots straight ahead at high or even targets, and maybe low ones as well. (I don't recall right now.) The nose gun gets a lot of action. (In real life, the B-17G was the only version of the plane that had this gun and it was a twin .50. The game messed this up.)

2. The port cheek gun and the starboard cheek gun are both .50 cal guns. (Actually, I think they were .30s in real life, but the game simplifies it by making them like all the other guns on the ship.) The bombardier has the port cheek gun and the navigator has the starboard cheek gun, though they can trade off is someone is injured. They essentially fire at anything in the 10:30 and 1:30 positions (high, even, or low). The cheek guns get moderate action. Due to the cramped conditions near the guns, it's usually impossible to fire both cheek guns at once, though it happens sometimes when I forget that rule.

3. The Engineer/Top Turret has twin .50 cal guns. They can attack anything coming in even or high in any direction. Engineers get more firing opportunities than any other position, and have powerful weaponry.

4. The radio room gun has one .50 cal gun. It shoots only at 6 o'clock high to keep fighters off your tail, or straight up if someone is diving at you. It's the only gun that can shoot straight up. Radio operators get few opportunities to shoot, but they're important ones.

5. The ball turret has twin .50 cal guns. It can shoot at anything coming in low, and at anything coming in even as long as it's coming in behind the wings. It's the only gun that can shoot straight down at climbing attackers. They have powerful weaponry, and get moderate shooting opportunities.

6. The left and right waist guns are single .50 cal guns, and can shoot anything coming in from the sides, and anything coming in from 10:30 or 1:30 high (above the wings). They get moderate shooting opportunities, but have to make hard shots a lot, so they have a lower hit rate.

7. The tail gunner has a twin .50 cal gun, and protects solely against things coming from the rear. The tail gunner has powerful weaponry and gets moderate shooting opportunities, but they're often easy shots since the closing speeds are lower when something is coming in from behind. The down side is that if the tail gunner misses, he's the first target for an easy shot from the enemy aircraft.

Experienced tail gunners (e.g., ten or more missions) learned to coordinate with the gunners up front to know if a fighter was coming in from the front. They would then fire at the fighter as it zipped away from the plane toward the rear. It's a hard shot, but hey, there's lots of ammunition.

Speaking of which, there are ammunition limits, which you won't need to worry about unless it happens. Ammunition is usually not a problem.

The intercom system on the plane was very important in coordinating fire. If the intercom system goes out, firing accuracy drops immensely.

More to come later.

01-21-2004, 04:06 PM

I have a question regarding the administrative manipulation of another crew's plane name. I didn't see any specific reference to it within the rules, but I thought I'd ask to be certain.

**Rain Man** · 01-21-2004, 04:09 PM

The rules implicitly state that administrative manipulation is allowed for Planes 1 through 9 and 11 through 20. Action on any other planes is not allowed.

Talisman · 01-21-2004, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phobia

I'm going to resign my commission and form a hamburger joint called McDonalds. See ya later.

Phil running a hamburger joint? That's like Pete Rose opening a sportsbook. It's like Michael Jackson running a daycare. It just won't work. He'll eat all his profits in no time.

01-21-2004, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talisman

Phil running a hamburger joint? That's like Pete Rose opening a sportsbook. It's like Michael Jackson running a daycare. It just won't work. He'll eat all his profits in no time.

Vastly inferior to the teabagging quip, but it will do in a pinch. I got a chuckle out of it.

KCWolfman · 01-21-2004, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

The rules implicitly state that administrative manipulation is allowed for Planes 1 through 9 and 11 through 20. Action on any other planes is not allowed.

Hmmm, let's see, moderator powers: check.... plane #4: check....

WOOHHOOOOOO. I am gonna be the one to kill Hitler!!!

Talisman · 01-21-2004, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phobia

Vastly inferior to the teabagging quip, but it will do in a pinch. I got a chuckle out of it.

I posted it prior to reading your awe inspiring tea-bagging comment, so I didn't realize I had anything to try and top.

I think I'll let yours stand as the quip of the day and be grateful for the chuckle.

**Rain Man** · 01-21-2004, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talisman

Phil running a hamburger joint? That's like Pete Rose opening a sportsbook. It's like Michael Jackson running a daycare. It just won't work. He'll eat all his profits in no time.

I learned that lesson the hard way back when I used to own a Pixie Stik factory.

Talisman · 01-21-2004, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENDelt260

You guys tryin' ta tell me I shouldn't open up a bar/brothel?

Amateur porn studio might work for you. As long as you remember to turn on the camera.

**Rain Man** · 01-21-2004, 04:47 PM

As opposed to a restaurant, the nice thing about owning a brothel would be that you could eat the inventory but it would still be there the next day.

Talisman · 01-21-2004, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

As opposed to a restaurant, the nice thing about owning a brothel would be that you could eat the inventory but it would still be there the next day.

JOhn · 01-21-2004, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dartgod

How about BEFORE we leave England. You know, just in case we don't make it back?

Done.

Jenny Gump · 01-21-2004, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

As opposed to a restaurant, the nice thing about owning a brothel would be that you could eat the inventory but it would still be there the next day.

Ok, this gets my vote as quip of the day. I haven't seen the teabagging one yet however.

01-21-2004, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennyGump

Ok, this gets my vote as quip of the day. I haven't seen the teabagging one yet however.

'nutt'n wrong w/ a little self promotion, right?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...0&page=2&pp=50 Start at 4:00 PM

Cntrygal · 01-23-2004, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

6. The left and right waist guns are single .50 cal guns, and can shoot anything coming in from the sides, and anything coming in from 10:30 or 1:30 high (above the wings). They get moderate shooting opportunities, but have to make hard shots a lot, so they have a lower hit rate.

Just call Warrior and me ..... "Deadeye". We don't "waste" ammo.... KILL!!!!!!

Cntrygal · 01-23-2004, 10:23 PM

since there was a question on fighters.....

01-21-2004, 02:37 PM
Rain Man Seize life. Be an ermine. Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $-672449 VARSITY	Some rules and background. I'll post some random information stuff as we go along, just so people have an understanding of what's going on. Check back on this periodically, as I'll add to it over time. Let's start with what will be coming at you: There are three types of German planes that will attack you: Focke-Wolfe 190s (tough and hard to kill), Messerchmidt 109s (baseline enemy fighter), and Messerschmidt 110s (not very tough - usually approach from the back to get better shots). They all have the same ability to fire at you; the only difference between them is your ability to damage them. When an enemy plane comes in, the first thing that can happen is that your own fighter escorts can drive it away. This is good, because you don't have to shoot and you don't get fired upon. However, your fighter escorts have a limited range, and on medium to long missions you won't have them around. Also, your fighter coverage is random. Sometimes they'll protect you like heck and other times they don't protect you at all since they're either lost or protecting other B-17s. If an enemy plane gets through the fighter escort (or if there isn't an escort), your plane will make defensive fire first. It's possible that you can kill the German before he gets close enough to take you out. If the enemy gets through your defensive fire and misses you, it goes away. If the enemy hits you, he'll come around and try to make another pass. If you have escort fighters they may be able to drive him off, but often they can't stop it. You once again get defensive fire, and if he survives he'll take another shot. If he hits you a second time, he'll make a third pass and the process will repeat itself. No plane will make more than three passes, though. If you're out of formation, any enemy that finds you will always take three passes at you. It's really bad to be out of formation, for two reasons: first, you don't have other B-17s to distract the fighters, and second, the only reason that you're ever out of formation is if the airplane is damaged enough that you couldn't stay in formation, so you're already in trouble. When fighters come in, they'll be announced in clock terms. 12 o'clock means they're coming straight in on your nose, and 6 o'clock means they're coming straight in on your tail. 3 o'clock is right wing, 9 o'clock is left wing, and they'll also come in at 1:30 and 10:30 slightly off your nose. A majority of fighters come in from the nose due to the defensive fire capabilities of the B-17. They're less likely to hit you coming in from the nose, but you're also less likely to hit them. Fighters will come in low (under the plane), even (at the B-17's altitude), or high (above the plane). On rare occasions, they'll dive straight down at you or climb straight up at you. At the target zone, or at low altitudes if you're damaged, you'll also be exposed to flak. Flak is anti-aircraft fire that can be quite nasty. If you get hit by flak in the target zone it'll also automatically throw off your bombing run, making it very hard to do damage to the target. You have no defense against flak other than hoping it'll miss and absorbing the damage if it doesn't. Your guns, starting with the front of the aircraft: 1. The nose gun is a .50 cal gun located right at the front of the plane. The bombardier and navigator share this gun, depending on who's busy with either their main job or firing a cheek gun. The nose gun essentially shoots straight ahead at high or even targets, and maybe low ones as well. (I don't recall right now.) The nose gun gets a lot of action. (In real life, the B-17G was the only version of the plane that had this gun and it was a twin .50. The game messed this up.) 2. The port cheek gun and the starboard cheek gun are both .50 cal guns. (Actually, I think they were .30s in real life, but the game simplifies it by making them like all the other guns on the ship.) The bombardier has the port cheek gun and the navigator has the starboard cheek gun, though they can trade off is someone is injured. They essentially fire at anything in the 10:30 and 1:30 positions (high, even, or low). The cheek guns get moderate action. Due to the cramped conditions near the guns, it's usually impossible to fire both cheek guns at once, though it happens sometimes when I forget that rule. 3. The Engineer/Top Turret has twin .50 cal guns. They can attack anything coming in even or high in any direction. Engineers get more firing opportunities than any other position, and have powerful weaponry. 4. The radio room gun has one .50 cal gun. It shoots only at 6 o'clock high to keep fighters off your tail, or straight up if someone is diving at you. It's the only gun that can shoot straight up. Radio operators get few opportunities to shoot, but they're important ones. 5. The ball turret has twin .50 cal guns. It can shoot at anything coming in low, and at anything coming in even as long as it's coming in behind the wings. It's the only gun that can shoot straight down at climbing attackers. They have powerful weaponry, and get moderate shooting opportunities. 6. The left and right waist guns are single .50 cal guns, and can shoot anything coming in from the sides, and anything coming in from 10:30 or 1:30 high (above the wings). They get moderate shooting opportunities, but have to make hard shots a lot, so they have a lower hit rate. 7. The tail gunner has a twin .50 cal gun, and protects solely against things coming from the rear. The tail gunner has powerful weaponry and gets moderate shooting opportunities, but they're often easy shots since the closing speeds are lower when something is coming in from behind. The down side is that if the tail gunner misses, he's the first target for an easy shot from the enemy aircraft. Experienced tail gunners (e.g., ten or more missions) learned to coordinate with the gunners up front to know if a fighter was coming in from the front. They would then fire at the fighter as it zipped away from the plane toward the rear. It's a hard shot, but hey, there's lots of ammunition. Speaking of which, there are ammunition limits, which you won't need to worry about unless it happens. Ammunition is usually not a problem. The intercom system on the plane was very important in coordinating fire. If the intercom system goes out, firing accuracy drops immensely. More to come later.
Posts: 145,505

01-21-2004, 04:06 PM	#16
Phobia Guest Casino cash: $	I have a question regarding the administrative manipulation of another crew's plane name. I didn't see any specific reference to it within the rules, but I thought I'd ask to be certain.
Posts: n/a

01-21-2004, 04:09 PM	#17
Rain Man Seize life. Be an ermine. Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $-672449 VARSITY	The rules implicitly state that administrative manipulation is allowed for Planes 1 through 9 and 11 through 20. Action on any other planes is not allowed. __________________ Active fan of the greatest team in NFL history.
Posts: 145,505

01-21-2004, 04:47 PM	#24
Rain Man Seize life. Be an ermine. Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $-672449 VARSITY	As opposed to a restaurant, the nice thing about owning a brothel would be that you could eat the inventory but it would still be there the next day. __________________ Active fan of the greatest team in NFL history.
Posts: 145,505

01-23-2004, 10:23 PM	#30
Cntrygal Brrrrr..... Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: USA!!! :) Casino cash: $9954930	since there was a question on fighters.....
Posts: 4,793