Chiefs what's with all the Orton isn't the answer talk? - Page 24

wutamess · 12-20-2011, 08:30 AM

OK he has the same stats avg as Cassle. BS! My dad and I argue about the Cheifs as if we're Pioli and Haley. I told him 3 weeeks ago, "dude. We finally have our QB." He looked at me like I was crazy and borderline ignored me.

I tried explaining to him we finaly have a qb that can make all of the throws. All he could muster up was he wasn't shit in Denve and he wasn Shit in Chicago. I told him he had good stats lat yar and turned Brandn Lloyd into NFLs #1 wr last year. He wasn't buying it but my point was valid.

I further went to explain that now Orton had something he's NEVER had as far as weapons. Now he has 2 BIG WRs as well as a WR that will stretch the field. Add JC and Moeki coming back next year and I think we can be a top 5 offense with Orton.

I just don't understand why people think he's a fluke ad try to compare him to Cassle when he's HEAD AND SHOULDERS above Cassel in EVERY category. I'll go so far as to say we don't need to draft qb this year if we sign Orton... I'm als thinking with Berry coming back and a O tackle and another stud LB to complement DJ, we're poised for a SUPERBOWL RUN!

bricks · 12-21-2011, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaWolf

The reason this team hasn't won jack in so many years isn't because we don't draft QB's in the first round, it's because the people who have been running the organization have shown NO ABILITY to actually evaluate the QB position.

What does Carl do? Steve Bono. Elvis Grbac. Before they signed Grbac, they strongly considered signing Heath Shuler, but passed because his foot was injured. He has an NFL MVP sitting on the roster backing up Grbac, who he lets walk. He trades a first rounder for Trent Green, who to me is the epitome of decent but not great QB who was handed Priest Holmes, Tony G, and probably the best offensive line of the decade in the NFL. Then you have Huard, and Croyle. He was reportedly salivating at the idea of drafting Joey Harrington had Detroit not taken him. He may have pounced on Brady Quinn had Cleveland not jumped in front of us to take him. Had he drafted either of those guys in round 1, we still wouldn't be celebrating a championship here.

Before that, this organization famously passes on Marino to take Blackledge.

Hell, this organization is lucky that Len Dawson couldn't cut it with two NFL teams before arriving here.

Would we have really been that much better had we drafted Sanchez or Freeman in 2009? Perhaps, but more likely we'd be complaining about Sanchez (wouldn't have the Jets defense playing behind him, Rex still has a leash on him) or Freeman (badly regressed this year) not justifying getting drafted at 3. Does drafting Jimmy Clausen get us any closer to the promised land? Not likely.

I really don't care how this organization finds a QB, we just need someone who can actually EVALUATE a QB. And we need some good luck for a change. I don't care if the guy is a third round pick or a fifth round pick (Montana, Brady). I don't care if we trade another organization for his rights (Favre). I don't care if he's a street free agent (Warner). I don't care if it's just some guy who is there mid first round because it is a stacked year for QB's (Big Ben) or if he's a guy who free falls to you (Rodgers) or if he's a free agent (Brees). We just need someone in the organization who for once will evaluate that position properly, and who will go out and get that guy. I don't care where it is.

To me, it's not going to cut it if we just draft a guy in the first round. If that guy turns out to be David Carr, or JaMarcus Russell, or Ryan Leaf, or Harrington, or Quinn, or anyone who is no better than Cassel or Orton, then it's not going to cut it. It's not going to cut it to be the Bengals and keep drafting QB's high and hoping they'll lead me to the promised land. That person would need to be fired.

In regards to Orton, I see him much like I see Cassel. 70 starts, and they've both proven they're inconsistent. We've spent three years looking at Cassel and arguing whether or not he'd perform better if he had a better supporting cast. Now we're looking at Orton and wondering if he'd do better with this supporting cast than he did in Chicago or Denver. So to me, it's the same thing. Both guys have proven that they are streaky, and that they don't elevate anyone's games. They can perform well if given all day to throw, which in many cases Orton had against Green Bay. The only reason to go Orton over Cassel is that Orton plays the position more naturally, while Cassel is very mechanical and needs everything to go right on a play to make it work. Hoping that Orton will be any better than what he is is like hoping that the light goes on for Cassel. It probably won't happen. Even if Orton finishes strong this year and comes back next year, the most likely scenario is that next year we'll be complaining about the things that Orton doesn't do well...

Ahhhhh, somebody with good sense.

Good job Dawolf! It's so true what you are saying.

Your right...it really comes down to evaluation at the end of the day. There are so many qbs that have been selected out of the first round.

And I believe it also has to do with KC making bad personnel decisions on top ala Grbac over Gannon as an example.

**The Bad Guy** · 12-21-2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobbie

Sincerely,

Brett Favre
Drew Brees
Tom Brady

Congratulations, true fan.

Sincerely,

Aaron Rodgers
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Ben Roethlisburger

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-21-2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Matt also had the top running game,a rb avg near 7ypc, and still only threw for close to 3000 yds.

out of those 27 Td I bet 12 were inside the 5 on short throws

No, but 12 of his TD's were from inside the 9. 10 from inside the 6.

He had 2 from 1 yard out.

3 from 2 yards out.

1 from 3 yards out.

2 from 5 yards out.

2 from 6 yards out.

1 from 7 yards out.

1 from 9 yards out.

DaWolf · 12-21-2011, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Did we ever stop to think that maybe the fact that they haven't drafted a 1st round QB is an indicator that they haven't properly evaluated the position and we shouldn't use their inability to evaluate as justification for not taking one.

You are only justified in taking one if you evaluate the guy properly. For example, if I am a QB starved organization, and I allow myself to drool over JaMarcus Russel's workout and draft him No 1 overall instead of Calvin Johnsnon, just because I feel the need to draft a QB in the first round and want to roll the dice, and get intoxicated with visions of JaMarcus leading my franchise for the next decade because of all of his physical tools, then I should lose my job. You are better off with Kyle Orton/Calvin Johnson than you are with Russell.

Again, this is not to say you don't take a guy in the first round, it is to say that when you do, or when you trade your entire draft for one, you better be sure that guy is gonna be the difference maker between being an OK team and being a Super Bowl contender. Otherwise you've just set your franchise back another 3-5 years and wasted a first.

Easier said than done of course, QB is a tough position to project from college to NFL. But that guy better be worth that pick. If I have the ability to trade up for Andrew Luck, or if I have a conviction about RGIII, do I go out and try to make it happen? Yeah. But if I am not in a position to take those guys, do I draft Landry Jones because he's there? Not if I am not sold on Landry Jones being a SIGNIFICANT upgrade over who I have at this level, and not if there is a better player available that will also help my team. I mean, I'm not going to sit here and give Jacksonville props for drafting and whiffing on Gabbert because they at least tried to replace Gerrard. They got it wrong, and set their franchise further back. In my book, you don't get brownie points for trying, you better do it right...

Dexter Manley · 12-21-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

Congratulations, true fan.

Sincerely,

Aaron Rodgers
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Ben Roethlisburger

"Screw you"

Sincerely,

Kurt Warner

Hammock Parties · 12-21-2011, 06:09 PM

Someone needs to post the "60% of SBs have been won by 1st-round QBs" thing again.

ChiefsCountry · 12-21-2011, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

Someone needs to post the "60% of SBs have been won by 1st-round QBs" thing again.

I should just keep that permentaly on paste on my computer.

12-21-2011, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobbie

What round was Trent Green selected?

He was basically an undrafted free agent. They used to run 12 round drafts back in the day and he was selected well past the 7th round.

ChiefsCountry · 12-21-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phobia

He was basically an undrafted free agent. They used to run 12 round drafts back in the day and he was selected well past the 7th round.

8th round

Hammock Parties · 12-21-2011, 06:16 PM

How about these facts:

57% of the Super Bowls have been won by first round quarterbacks.
(Out of those quarterbacks only 3 were not top 10 picks)
40% of the Super Bowls won by top 5 picks.
21% have been won by 1st round quarterbacks that wasnt their original team (Dawson, Plunkett (2), Williams, Young, Dilfer)
16% of the Super Bowls were won by Montana and Brady
4% were Roger Staubuach's wins who would have went in the first if he wasnt going to Vietnam
14% were won by a 9th or lower (counting Warner who was Undrafted) and 4 of those wins were by Bart Starr & Roger Staubauch.
4% were won by second round quarterbacks
4% 3rd and 6th rounds picks that were not Montana or Brady
0% of the Super Bowls were won by a 7th round pick
__________________

Dexter Manley · 12-21-2011, 06:17 PM

"21% have been won by 1st round quarterbacks that wasnt their original team (Dawson, Plunkett (2), Williams, Young, Dilfer)"

BINGO!!!

Dexter Manley · 12-21-2011, 06:18 PM

The team that Drafts a First Round QB better have a good supporting cast.

If that is not the case, fix the supporting cast first...

Hammock Parties · 12-21-2011, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobbie

"21% have been won by 1st round quarterbacks that wasnt their original team (Dawson, Plunkett (2), Williams, Young, Dilfer)"

BINGO!!!

Where do you suggest we get a former 1st-round QB, jackass?

Dexter Manley · 12-21-2011, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

Where do you suggest we get a former 1st-round QB, jackass?

Rather, the point is that a lot of good QBs go to shitty teams and then get canned.

The Bucs were awesome.

The Bucs were losing. Obviously it was all QB Steve Young's fault. Solution, dump Steve on those stupid Niners and Draft Vinnie Testaverde...

Several years later, Vinne is the Bucs problem. Solution, dump Vinne, and Draft Trent Dilfer...

Then Dilfer was the problem... dump him!!!

Sign BRAD JOHNSON... and win a Super Bowl...

Got that, jackass???

FloridaMan88 · 12-21-2011, 06:27 PM

Settling for Orton as the starting QB for the future would be a typical Chiefs move. Orton is potentially good enough to win 8-9, maybe 10 games for the Chiefs, but he'll never lead the Chiefs to a Super Bowl.

The Chiefs must draft a franchise QB.

Stop settling for journeyman QBs, back-up QBs with alleged potential, etc.

12-20-2011, 08:30 AM
wutamess MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Lee's Summit Casino cash: $4711637	what's with all the Orton isn't the answer talk? OK he has the same stats avg as Cassle. BS! My dad and I argue about the Cheifs as if we're Pioli and Haley. I told him 3 weeeks ago, "dude. We finally have our QB." He looked at me like I was crazy and borderline ignored me. I tried explaining to him we finaly have a qb that can make all of the throws. All he could muster up was he wasn't shit in Denve and he wasn Shit in Chicago. I told him he had good stats lat yar and turned Brandn Lloyd into NFLs #1 wr last year. He wasn't buying it but my point was valid. I further went to explain that now Orton had something he's NEVER had as far as weapons. Now he has 2 BIG WRs as well as a WR that will stretch the field. Add JC and Moeki coming back next year and I think we can be a top 5 offense with Orton. I just don't understand why people think he's a fluke ad try to compare him to Cassle when he's HEAD AND SHOULDERS above Cassel in EVERY category. I'll go so far as to say we don't need to draft qb this year if we sign Orton... I'm als thinking with Berry coming back and a O tackle and another stud LB to complement DJ, we're poised for a SUPERBOWL RUN!
Posts: 8,290

12-21-2011, 06:09 PM	#351
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $820478	Someone needs to post the "60% of SBs have been won by 1st-round QBs" thing again. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,413

12-21-2011, 06:16 PM	#355
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $820478	How about these facts: 57% of the Super Bowls have been won by first round quarterbacks. (Out of those quarterbacks only 3 were not top 10 picks) 40% of the Super Bowls won by top 5 picks. 21% have been won by 1st round quarterbacks that wasnt their original team (Dawson, Plunkett (2), Williams, Young, Dilfer) 16% of the Super Bowls were won by Montana and Brady 4% were Roger Staubuach's wins who would have went in the first if he wasnt going to Vietnam 14% were won by a 9th or lower (counting Warner who was Undrafted) and 4 of those wins were by Bart Starr & Roger Staubauch. 4% were won by second round quarterbacks 4% 3rd and 6th rounds picks that were not Montana or Brady 0% of the Super Bowls were won by a 7th round pick __________________ __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,413

12-21-2011, 06:17 PM	#356
Dexter Manley Veteran Join Date: Dec 2011 Casino cash: $10004900	"21% have been won by 1st round quarterbacks that wasnt their original team (Dawson, Plunkett (2), Williams, Young, Dilfer)" BINGO!!!
Posts: 1,263

12-21-2011, 06:18 PM	#357
Dexter Manley Veteran Join Date: Dec 2011 Casino cash: $10004900	The team that Drafts a First Round QB better have a good supporting cast. If that is not the case, fix the supporting cast first...
Posts: 1,263

12-21-2011, 06:27 PM	#360
FloridaMan88 Mahomes: We Are All Witnesses Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Casino cash: $-727094	Settling for Orton as the starting QB for the future would be a typical Chiefs move. Orton is potentially good enough to win 8-9, maybe 10 games for the Chiefs, but he'll never lead the Chiefs to a Super Bowl. The Chiefs must draft a franchise QB. Stop settling for journeyman QBs, back-up QBs with alleged potential, etc.
Posts: 50,216